Who gave the world the Bible?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Christalone
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
jpaul1953 said:
Boy you got everything figured out. The Catholics might know the truth but the Portestants obey it. Are you for real. So you may know some sinful Catholics. So what.

At least we acknowledge that if ones strays away and dies they will burn. So you better be ready Mr Protestant.

You comments are so ridiculously immature and incredibly small-minded, but that’s okay. Ignorance is bliss. You dissappoint me. You must be quite young.
Click to expand...
You misunderstand and are upset about something here. I’m calling things how I see them. And I am Catholic. I’m not saying the protestants are right but at least many are doing the Fathers will. Where there are those who may have correct teaching are are not doing the Fathers will. The CCC points out that there will be protestants that are ignorant of the Truth of the Catholic church but will be saved through the Church in the end. Those are the ones I’m speaking of. There is nothing wrong with critizising Catholics not living their faith. Its done all the time throughout history. I think its ludicrous to accept this as ok for the church and defend it.
 
GodIsGracious said:
Is this in response to my post?

Uhm. I’m Catholic. I was simply posing some questions as a Catholic regarding (some) Protestant beliefs and also what the Catholic church teaches us about who is saved or not.

I’m having a real problem right now with being able to allow just anyone to be saved. Granted, I fully acknowledge that God is the only one who judges us, but Christ did say that he was the way to the father. And since I firmly believe that the Catholic church is the one true church, it annoys me when some people say that nearly anyone can be saved.

Also what annoys me is that protestants can be saved in one moment of time, say a 3 or 4 line prayer, and then they go off and do as they please. Catholics, while many do, don’t have such a “luxury.” Our path is narrower, it seems. And my ego almost nearly demands that we get special consideration over others. But then again, I admit it is my ego. 😉
Click to expand...
 
Hi,

I did not mean to suggest that everyone can be saved, not at all. What I meant was that anyone may be saved.

Please read Romans 2:12-16. It exlains what I meant better than I can. I was primarily responding to ‘I am the way, the truth, and the light. No one gets to the Father except through me’. We must do the very best with what we know Please also read 1st Epistle of John Cahpter 1. Paraphrased, ‘if you love me you will keep my commandments’. and’if you say you love me, but don;t keep the commandments set down by Moses than you are a liar’.

I hope this helps clear up what I meant. May God Bless you.
 
jpaul1953 said:
Hi,

I did not mean to suggest that everyone can be saved, not at all. What I meant was that anyone may be saved.

Please read Romans 2:12-16. It exlains what I meant better than I can. I was primarily responding to ‘I am the way, the truth, and the light. No one gets to the Father except through me’. We must do the very best with what we know Please also read 1st Epistle of John Cahpter 1. Paraphrased, ‘if you love me you will keep my commandments’. and’if you say you love me, but don;t keep the commandments set down by Moses than you are a liar’.

I hope this helps clear up what I meant. May God Bless you.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I can go with that. But I’m watchful on the terminology here. Origen was condemned for his view of Universalism. However, to be fair to him he did say that if he taught something not in accord with the Church he didn’t believe it.
 
GodIsGracious said:
Is this in response to my post?

Uhm. I’m Catholic. I was simply posing some questions as a Catholic regarding (some) Protestant beliefs and also what the Catholic church teaches us about who is saved or not.

I’m having a real problem right now with being able to allow just anyone to be saved. Granted, I fully acknowledge that God is the only one who judges us, but Christ did say that he was the way to the father. And since I firmly believe that the Catholic church is the one true church, it annoys me when some people say that nearly anyone can be saved.

Also what annoys me is that protestants can be saved in one moment of time, say a 3 or 4 line prayer, and then they go off and do as they please. Catholics, while many do, don’t have such a “luxury.” Our path is narrower, it seems. And my ego almost nearly demands that we get special consideration over others. But then again, I admit it is my ego. 😉
Click to expand...
Just so as to address your concerns. I think they would be 100% correct if things were the way you said they were. If just anyone could be saved that would totally be unfair, because they what would be the point of being Catholic in the first place? Christ is the only way to his father, and no one goes to the Father but through him. (and by extention his Church). The problem with the view you have is that you fail to understand what the Church actually means when it says that anyone can have salvation. Remember that just as the wheel is subject to the horse without knowing that it is part of the entire cart, so a man could be subject to the Church without knowing it. If these people ever get into heaven (A common misconception is that they can get into heaven just as easy as Catholics can, which seems to be the source of your problem with the Church teaching on that) then it would have meant that at some point, maybe in the afterlife or during the moment between final unconscienceness and final death. Point is this person would not just be able to not ever accept Christ and then enter heaven. They would still be judged and have to go through purgatory. But thats the key thing here, They would be less likely to be able to even get a chance to go to purgatory, as they do not have the fullness of truth, unless God has mercy on them as he does on us Catholics and takes into account their society and its customs.

As for protestants, for them too, though it may seem as though they can just say 4 lines and enter into heaven, this is still not completely true. They do not have a host of sacrements at their disposal, so it is not as easy for them to enter into heaven as well.

The Catholic way makes it easist to enter into heaven, but hardest to live on the earth. This is why Catholicism seems so hard, because its ways are from God and it is foriegn to this earth.
 
Christalone said:
Both Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox church leaders make the identical claim that they gave the world the Bible. If both the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches make the same claim they gave the world the Bible, why do they have different books in each of their Bibles? Whose “church authority” shall we believe? Whose tradition is the one we should follow?
Click to expand...
You need to do a little good scholarship my friend. This would eleminate much of your confusion.
God gave the world the Holy Scriptures the the undivided Catholic Church which Jesus Christ founded; at that time, it consisted of what is now The Catholic Church and The Orthodox Church. So, you see, there is only one Sacred Tradition. The Holy Scriptures are, in fact, a part of Sacred Tradition.
(I won’t mention your errors on the names of both of these Apostolic Churches).

I hope this clears up your confusion.

If you would like to learn more about the teachings of Jesus Christ, please contact the folks at chnetwork.org/. I promise, if you unite yourself to Jesus Christ through His Church, you will experience the great gift the He has promised to those who follow Him. As Jesus said, “He who eats My body and drinks My blood lives in Me and I in him and I will raise him up on the last day.” And He is faithful and sure to keep His promises. Repent, turn to the Gospel and be saved and you will have everlasting life.

Grace and peace be with you.

Your servant in Christ.
 
Dear Questioner,

Remember, just because some Protestants believe that as long as they make the commitment prayer, all of their sins, past, present, and future are forgiven. Where is that in the Bible. Nowhere.

This is one big reason why so many Catholics walk away from the Church. They want an easier solution to the Catholic belief that we must live life for Christ and that there is no guarantee.

Just like Catholic divorcees leave the Church for a less restrictive denomination of Protestant. Some deno’s accept divorce, some say just make a new commitment to Christ and get re-baptized and you’re set. Sounds good to me so why do I stay Roman Catholic…because it’s the truth.

I heard on a non-Catholic channel that as they say often that one can never lose their salvation, never, but if they became a Roman Catholic they are automatically condemmed to the Lake of Fire. I went ballsitic.

Here’s another funny one, the Church accepts protestant baptism if it is done in the Biblical form (in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Hioly Spirit), but they won’t accept ours.

May God guide us all to Sainthood.
 
Christalone said:
My intention here is not to debate. There is no I’m right you’re wrong, as we both are fallible, and a debate would prove nothing.

And speaking of nothing, I have yet to see scripitural proof that claims your claim of the bible coming from any church.
Click to expand...
Like you said you are not here to debate and you do not believe any thing cathloc have to say ,so why are you here
 
Bill_Pick said:
Like you said you are not here to debate and you do not believe any thing cathloc have to say ,so why are you here
Click to expand...
He believes his intellect to be superior to our spirituality. He needs to know humility as a child of God tries to understand it. He believes this is a competition. There is one funny thing though, the ones who fight against Catholicism the most, later become Catholics and very reverent ones at that (ie. Scott Hahn for one) .

May God guide us all.
 
jpaul1953 said:
He believes his intellect to be superior to our spirituality. He needs to know humility as a child of God tries to understand it. He believes this is a competition. There is one funny thing though, the ones who fight against Catholicism the most, later become Catholics and very reverent ones at that (ie. Scott Hahn for one) .

May God guide us all.
Click to expand...
I am referring to Christalone.
 
jpaul1953 said:
Dear Questioner,

Remember, just because some Protestants believe that as long as they make the commitment prayer, all of their sins, past, present, and future are forgiven. Where is that in the Bible. Nowhere.

This is one big reason why so many Catholics walk away from the Church. They want an easier solution to the Catholic belief that we must live life for Christ and that there is no guarantee.

Just like Catholic divorcees leave the Church for a less restrictive denomination of Protestant. Some deno’s accept divorce, some say just make a new commitment to Christ and get re-baptized and you’re set. Sounds good to me so why do I stay Roman Catholic…because it’s the truth.

I heard on a non-Catholic channel that as they say often that one can never lose their salvation, never, but if they became a Roman Catholic they are automatically condemmed to the Lake of Fire. I went ballsitic.

Here’s another funny one, the Church accepts protestant baptism if it is done in the Biblical form (in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Hioly Spirit), but they won’t accept ours.

May God guide us all to Sainthood.
Click to expand...
Exactly. People, instead of looking at what God wants and changing their behavior to suit it, instead change their view of God to justify their behavior. This was very evident during the reformation, as even Luther himself tried to remove some books from the bible, not just the deuterocanon, but also Timothy and James.
 
Stouts989 said:
You missed my point. I’ll try to be clearer.

Whether Jesus quotes from the Septuagint or the Tanach is relevant. The point is…he never quotes from the later books that are found in the Septuagint but not the Tanach. That being said and what is written in Luke 11 and 24 gives a strong case for what OT we should be referring to as the Word of God.
Click to expand...
Really? Are you sure.

Consider these passages.

Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus’ statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.

Matt… 7:12 - Jesus’ golden rule “do unto others” is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.

Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus’ statement “you will know them by their fruits” follows Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.

Matt. 9:36 - the people were “like sheep without a shepherd” is same as Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.

Matt. 11:25 - Jesus’ description “Lord of heaven and earth” is the same as Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.

Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus’ reference to the “power of death” and “gates of Hades” references Wisdom 16:13.

Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.

Matt. 24:15 - the “desolating sacrilege” Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.

Mark 7:6-8 – Jesus quotes Isaiah 29:13 from the Septuagint – “This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.”
 
TheQuestioner said:
Exactly. People, instead of looking at what God wants and changing their behavior to suit it, instead change their view of God to justify their behavior. This was very evident during the reformation, as even Luther himself tried to remove some books from the bible, not just the deuterocanon, but also Timothy and James.
Click to expand...
 
Good morning ‘The Questioner’

First of all, I like your username. It’s perfect.

Secondly, I believe Martin Luther wanted to remove the deuterocanon because Macabees strongly hints towards purgatory. Remove James because James states : “faith without works is dead”.Martin Luther said that all we needed was faith to get to Heaven. He struggled a lot with the Church because there’s no guarantee for salvation, even though there is (by trying our best to follow Jesus, to go to confession regularly, and to receive the Holy Eucharist regularly. And if we fall HARD make a sincere confession. Just like being born again, again.) The wanted to remove Timothy because Timothy 3:15 states that the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth…not the Bible as Martin Luther said.

May God guide us all.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Really? Are you sure.

Consider these passages.

Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus’ statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.

Matt… 7:12 - Jesus’ golden rule “do unto others” is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.

Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus’ statement “you will know them by their fruits” follows Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.

Matt. 9:36 - the people were “like sheep without a shepherd” is same as Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.

Matt. 11:25 - Jesus’ description “Lord of heaven and earth” is the same as Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.

Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus’ reference to the “power of death” and “gates of Hades” references Wisdom 16:13.

Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.

Matt. 24:15 - the “desolating sacrilege” Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.

Mark 7:6-8 – Jesus quotes Isaiah 29:13 from the Septuagint – “This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.”
Click to expand...
 
Mannyfit75,

Wow.

To the best of my knowledge, Jesus, along with His apostles, used the Septuagint for His reference point. I believe I read somewhere that the reason many of the Jews returned to the old ‘works of the law’, 618 commandments?, versus the ‘works of Love’ that the Church teaches us is because they were reading the other Old Testament. So they went back to the first covenant, pushing the new covenant aside.

May God guide us all.
 
Christalone said:
Please prove your last remark.

And FYI there is no 'self-explaining" bible. The Holy Spirit guides Christians to the truth, not man nor a man’s church. If this is believed then it is placed above God.
Click to expand...
So are you saying the Holy Spirit guides all these Christian to the truth
  1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?
  2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?
  3. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?
  4. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?
  5. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, ‘once saved always saved’, and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?
  6. How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?
  7. How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GO
And off thread But you will be please show that the Chruch said in another post that Cathlocs wordhip Mary,please show me this writteing that you can get from the Church or any prove you have
 
I made a statement earlier I have now come to think was a bit misleading.

I said that the Catholic way is the easiest way to enter heaven, though makes it hard to live on earth.

what i truly meant was

I said that the Catholic way is the best way to enter heaven, though makes it hardest to live on earth.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top