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F
Fuerza
Guest
I just typed out a lengthy response to this and your original question, but lost my internet connection just as I posted it. I’m too tired to attempt it again, but if I remember and I get a chance I’ll try to post the cliff notes version this week.
M
Morning_Star15
Guest
I may be going off on a bit of a tangent here, but I was once at a Mass where the deacon baptized the baby, while the priest just watched. Should this have been done? Do deacons have the same authority to baptize as priests do?
Karolina
Karolina
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JesuXPIPassio
Guest
Yeah, Deacons can baptise.
Customarily, when a Deacon does Mass with a priest, the Deacon takes on a lot of responsibilities. I think the point is to be that the priest is so consumed in his work and prayer that the deacon is just there to assist.
Like, you’ll notice that Deacons would be the one to proclaim the Gospel. They’d be the one at the end of the Mass to say “Bow your heads and pray for God’s blessing.”
So having a Deacon do the baptism like that is totally fine. It was both valid and licit.
M
Morning_Star15
Guest
Thanks for the reply
I’m used to seeing a Deacon help out with other parts of the Mass, like the ones you mentioned above. I guess I was just surprised to see him do something as major as baptizing a baby - it’s a Sacrament after all, so it’s a bigger deal than anything else I had seen a Deacon do up to that point.
Karolina
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Walking_Home
Guest
To correctly understand what you quoted above—you need to read the following in Dominus Jesus.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html
- With the coming of the Saviour Jesus Christ, God has willed that the Church founded by him be the instrument for the salvation of all humanity (cf. Acts 17:30-31).90 This truth of faith does not lessen the sincere respect which the Church has for the religions of the world, but at the same time, it rules out, in a radical way, that mentality of indifferentism “characterized by a religious relativism which leads to the belief that ‘one religion is as good as another’”.91 If it is true that the followers of other religions can receive divine grace, it is also certain that objectively speaking they are in a gravely deficient situation in comparison with those who, in the Church, have the fullness of the means of salvation.92 However, “all the children of the Church should nevertheless remember that their exalted condition results, not from their own merits, but from the grace of Christ. If they fail to respond in thought, word, and deed to that grace, not only shall they not be saved, but they shall be more severely judged”.93 One understands then that, following the Lord’s command (cf. Mt 28:19-20) and as a requirement of her love for all people, the Church “proclaims and is in duty bound to proclaim without fail, Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life (Jn 14:6). In him, in whom God reconciled all things to himself (cf. 2 Cor 5:18-19), men find the fullness of their religious life”.94
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TOME
Guest
There are really only 2 sacraments not “performed” by an ordained Bishop/Priest exclusively. The first is baptism.Any baptized individual, with the right intention, my baptized. The second sacrament is Marriage. With marriage the sacrament occurs, not through the actions of the priest or deacon, but the sacrament occurs through the covenant words of the husband and wife (the priest of deacon are the offical witnesses of the Church).
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JesuXPIPassio
Guest
Yes, yes, I realise that. I also see in the Lumen Gentium document a hidden mechanism – whether or not it had been intentionally hidden – that would funnel people into the Church. I do believe totally that people who truly, fully seek God would realise the Truth of Catholicism and would be obliged to join us.
But the basic point was that anyone who seeks God can get into heaven. Whatever way you cut it and however way you look at it, the Church’s teaching is clear that one doesn’t have to be a member of our Church.
I brought in that quote to show that pompous Palmas85 that he was wrong, and in the future he’d do better to act with more humility, especially if he’s not an expert in the field about which he speaks.
At least I was able to admit I was bad at Theology and I didn’t go around pontificating about a subject I know nothing about.
But the basic point was that anyone who seeks God can get into heaven. Whatever way you cut it and however way you look at it, the Church’s teaching is clear that one doesn’t have to be a member of our Church.
I brought in that quote to show that pompous Palmas85 that he was wrong, and in the future he’d do better to act with more humility, especially if he’s not an expert in the field about which he speaks.
At least I was able to admit I was bad at Theology and I didn’t go around pontificating about a subject I know nothing about.
W
Walking_Home
Guest
What are you talking about—a hidden mechanism.
J
JesuXPIPassio
Guest
Well, what I meant was, in other words, that Lumen Gentium document is designed to bring people into the Church, even though it doesn’t say so. It’s hidden in there, though I can’t say if the writers hid it on purpose.
See, the document says that anyone can get into heaven as long as they serve God properly, right? The document seems to say that anyone can get into heaven.
But then, we can argue that people who truly seek God would only find the Catholic Church in the end. That concept is in the document, though it isn’t overtly said. It’s hidden.
See, the document says that anyone can get into heaven as long as they serve God properly, right? The document seems to say that anyone can get into heaven.
But then, we can argue that people who truly seek God would only find the Catholic Church in the end. That concept is in the document, though it isn’t overtly said. It’s hidden.
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