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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Thank you:thumbsup:
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E.E.N.S
Guest
I bolded certain parts specifically in her post. They are lies. Read them and tell me you think differently.
Do you think that the Church would be the “first to admit it is not scriptural”?? Stating that the Church holds this belief and would be the first to admit it is pure fabrication. Similar to all the other bolded areas.
Like I said yesterday, you must be careful what exactly it is that you are defending. This not the creed of her faith, but it is and attack against ours fabricated from falsehood.
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Blue_Serenity
Guest
I don’t see anywhere where the CC was attacked.
I see different beliefs being expressed. 
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E.E.N.S
Guest
He who has eyes to see, let them see.I don’t see anywhere where the CC was attacked.
Hello Mrs. bat.
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Blue_Serenity
Guest
Huh?He who has eyes to see, let them see.
Hello Mrs. bat.
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jmcrae
Guest
So the belief that “Romanism” got started in the Middle Ages and prevents its members from reading the Scriptures never been prevented from reading the Scriptures at any time since becoming Catholic; I also hear them being read out at Mass and everywhere else I go] is just an equally valid different belief??I don’t see anywhere where the CC was attacked.
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Blue_Serenity
Guest
She apologized for the “romanism” comment. Why are you still bringing it up?
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sterryfamily
Guest
Does it seem reasonable to you that our Lord and Savior would command his desciples to do what the scribes and pharisees instructed them because they derive their authority from the fact that they occupy the Seat of Moses?
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MariaG
Guest
Okay, I don’t notice anything offhand that is wrong in this set here, but I fail to see the significance in the statements. There is a broader definitionof “Church” but that definition was never an “invisible group of loosely related christians who held different beliefs”. The Church has always been a visible group. While the Catholic Church does believe and teaches that Protestants through rebellion but through no fault of current Protestants, are in an imperfect communion with the Catholic Church and are part of the Church, this state of events has only come about through the sin of man and not by the design of God.
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MariaG
Guest
Yes, the Catholic Church also teaches that Christ is the head of the Church. And further teaches, as seen in scripture that we are placed under the authority of those whom Christ placed to lead His Church. Christ never gave up nor does the Church teach that Christ is not the head. But the “keys of the kingdom” are significant. A steward is given the keys of the castle to “run” the castle while the Master is away. It is always understood that the castle is still the masters and does not belong to the steward, but the steward IS in charge until the master returns.
Since Christ gave “the keys” to Peter, but Christ has not yet returned, and since we know Christ would have been aware of this, the keys and the position the keys represent were meant to be passed on until Christ DID return.
Here I would have to disagree with you unless you wish to add regardless of age and infants can be included in this based on the faith of the parents, as we see in scripture and the practices of the Early Church.
Again, yes, we would agree that Christ is the head of the Church. But we clearly disagree as to how Christ gives direction to the church. It cannot be the Holy Spirit since different denominations teach different things.
I clearly see a problem with 5 different denominations all claiming to be led by the Holy Spirit (and thereby being led by Christ), who all teach different “truths”.
Who decides who is right and who is wrong? Are the JW’s right? Mormons? We both would probably agree no, and say they contradict scripture. But what about Catholics and Baptists? We both disagree and both would claim, contrary to one of your posts that Scripture agrees with us.
Wasn’t it you who said the power the apostles had died out with the apostles? This statement provided by you seems to contradict your belief that their power died with them.
The power is God’s and the power was wielded by the apostles. That power is God’s to give as he wills and I don’t think man can declare that God will never will that gift on any others.
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MariaG
Guest
Your interpretation of scripture is faulty. There was another office, the head of bishops, Peter, was made when Christ gave him the keys.3rd statementThis is the one I already posted but it all goes together in order so I thought I would post it again.
Organization. While the church is a living organism, it is also an or ganization, involving offices and function. There are two designated offices in the New Testament church. The office of elder (Gk. presbuteros) emphasizes maturity and dignity and normally denotes an older person. Elders were appointed as leaders in the local churches (1 Tim. 5:17; Titus 1:5). The term bishop or overseer (Gk. episkopos) denotes the work of shepherding by the elder (1 Tim. 3:1). The terms are basically synonymous, although elder signifies the office whereas overseer emphasizes function. The work of the elders involved teaching (1 Tim. 5:17), ruling (1 Tim. 5:17), shepherding, nurturing, and caring for the flock (1 Tim. 3:1). Their qualifications are listed in 1 Timothy 3:1–7.
The other church office is that of deacon (Gk. diakonos), meaning “servant.” From the qualifications cited in 1 Timothy 3:8–13 it is evident the deacons were also involved in spiritual ministry, albeit as subordinate to the elders. Along with the elders they had an authoritative position in the local church (cf. Phil. 1:1).
It is not entirely clear whether Paul was advocating a separate office of deaconness (1 Tim. 3:11). The word gunaikas, translated “women,” may refer to the wives of the deacons or to a separate class of deaconesses.
The writings of the ECF also speak of Peter who was “head of the choir of apostles” and other such statements. So your interpretation is not consistent with scripture or the understanding of the early church.
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MariaG
Guest
4th statementAlthough this is not specifically what we are discussing it is what many churches believe and follow including mine.
Ordinances. Although the subject of baptism is prominent in the New Testament, it is not a major emphasis in Pauline theology. The verb baptizo is used eighty times in the New Testament, but Paul uses it only sixteen times and only eleven of those refer to water baptism (three of them in Acts). Furthermore, he uses the verb six times in his explanation that Christ did not send him to baptize (1 Cor. 1:13–17); thus, apart from that reference, Paul refers to water baptism only twice in the epistles (1 Cor. 15:29). In his explanation to the Corinthians Paul makes it clear that baptism is not a part of the gospel (1 Cor. 1:17–18). Paul seems to emphasize the baptism of the Spirit more than water baptism (cf. Rom. 6:3; 1 Cor. 10:2; 12:13; Gal. 3:27).
Paul provides a detailed explanation of the Lord’s Supper (1 Cor. 11:23–34), which he received through direct revelation from the Lord (1 Cor. 15:3; Gal. 1:12). Paul presents the Lord’s Supper as a memorial (1 Cor. 11:25) and admonishes the Corinthians not to partake in a casual manner; in so doing they would drink judgment to themselves. Paul’s further rebuke relates to an accompanying meal, sometimes referred to as the agape, in which some would gorge themselves while others would have little to eat. It disrupted fellowship and resulted in eating and drinking the Lord’s Supper in an unworthy manner; they were “eating without recognizing the symbolism which reminds of the Lord’s body, without seeing Christ and His death in it all.”30
Many? No, those who view baptism as only symbolic and only done as a believers baptism are not actually the majority of Christians, although probably the majority of Christians that you socialize withHey,
I was just putiing out what most protestants believe about the church and the organization of it. I have another piece of info. that would fit this discussion better.I just thought I would give some background before I put the info. out.
And even it were ALL protestants who believed that except Catholics, how does that make it right when it contradicts scripture and the interpretation of scripture of the early Church?
You yourself I believe mention the anabaptists who “came along” in the 1800’s. Scripture warns us of those who will come along teaching false doctrine and twist scripture to their own downfall.
God Bless,
Maria
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jmcrae
Guest
Uh - because people are still defending it as just her belief; one valid opinion among many?
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Yes I did say that but only their powers. God still gives people gifts in every generation. He will continue to do so until the end.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi ,
It may contradict ECF writings but it does not contradict Scripture at all.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Your interpretation of scripture is faulty. There was another office, the head of bishops, Peter, was made when Christ gave him the keys.
Where is this in the Scriptures?
My intrepretation is consistent with Scripture.
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jmcrae
Guest
Why weren’t the ECFs’ interpretations “consistent with Scripture,” since they were the children who sat on Jesus’ knee when He said, “Let the children come to me,” who grew up among Jesus and the Apostles, and ultimately became the Early Church?My intrepretation is consistent with Scripture.
If they got it wrong, then nobody can get it right. Our interpretation of Scripture, sitting in our homes far away both in time and space, can’t be better than theirs, since they were right there, asking all the questions and hearing everything first-hand.
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Petergee
Guest
If as you claim, “most protestants” believ that St Paul told the Corinthians, that when receiving the Holy Eucharist they had to "recognize the symbolism which reminds of the Lord’s body”, they had better have another look at what he really said. It’s amazing how many so-called “Bible-based” Christians don’t actually base their faith on the Bible, but distort and misquote selected bits of the Bible to fit in with their own preconceived ideas.Hey,
I was just putiing out what most protestants believe about the church and the organization of it. I have another piece of info. that would fit this discussion better.
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Petergee
Guest
That’s the most long-winded way of saying “No” that I’ve ever seen.
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Petergee
Guest
OK, so what is it exactly which (I presume) you think the Church teaches now which she did NOT teach from 30 to 800 AD?
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