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sterryfamily
Guest
The “universal church of Christ” is the Catholic Church, no matter who choses to capitalize or not. It has always been such. Just check history.
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jmcrae
Guest
You took the words right out of my mouth.
The Catholic Church is not a “denomination” - it’s the Church that Christ founded - aka, the “universal church of Christ.”
One. Holy. Catholic. And Apostolic.
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shawn34_a
Guest
Funny. Continue to believe it. Why not ask your priest then?
You took the words right out of my mouth.
The Catholic Church is not a “denomination” - it’s the Church that Christ founded - aka, the “universal church of Christ.”
One. Holy. Catholic. And Apostolic.
We believe (I believe) in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God) light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And (I believe) in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets. And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess (I confess) one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for (I look for) the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."
newadvent.org/cathen/11049a.htm
Not capitalized here. It does change the the meaning quite a bit or else it would always be capitalized or lower case.
Sure Catholic Church is a denomination. If not, then why not just say the Church? You are differentiating the Catholic Church from Baptist Churches and etc.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi,
Im curious as to when the small c in catholic became the big C in Catholic as in the RCC. When did the Church start calling itself the CC as we know it today?
Im curious as to when the small c in catholic became the big C in Catholic as in the RCC. When did the Church start calling itself the CC as we know it today?
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jmcrae
Guest
The Catholic Church could perhaps be considered a “denomination” (split-off) of Temple Judaism, but there is no way that it is a denomination of Christianity, because there was no preceding form of Christianity for it to have split away from.
The Catholic Church is the one that was founded by Christ. The only thing it “split off” from was Temple Judaism, which no longer exists.
The Baptists split off from the Dutch Calvinists during the late 1600s.
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jmcrae
Guest
The first time it was written as such in 110 AD, by St. Ignatius of Antioch.Hi,
Im curious as to when the small c in catholic became the big C in Catholic as in the RCC. When did the Church start calling itself the CC as we know it today?
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shawn34_a
Guest
The point was to show that there is more than one Christian denomination that is a Church.
What is the Church? It’s the New Testament. It’s the Word of God. No matter how you try to justify it, it’s not the pope. It is not any one person, but Christ himself. When Jesus told Peter that he is the foundation for which he was going to build his Church upon, that was fulfilled with the New Testament.
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Flying_Bison
Guest
Who Cares if it is Catholic or catholic or RCC or whatever.
History has proven that the early Church what ever it was called acted wholly Roman Catholic.
The had Bishops, Peter was the head and thus were his successors.
The breaking of bread later called the Eucharist was the centerpiece of worship.
Most of those called saints were actually martyrs in the early Church.
Apostolic Traditions were held in the highest regard as a canon had not been developed as of yet. The only way to judge the authenticity of Scripture was to compare it to known Oral Apostolic teachings.
Sounds very Catholic.
So, here is the real question. How can any protestant show that their ideas were those held by the apostolic christians? Well, they can’t because history proves them wrong.
So instead they try to attack the Catholic church because they have NO justification for their own church except to say that Catholics are wrong so the had to become the real church.
But the bible says!!! Protestants would have us believe that we Catholics authorized a Holy Scripture that contradicted our own church and read it to the masses at mass daily. It was only 1500 years after the Bible was written that the true meaning was found (eventhough that meaning contradicts historical christian teachings for centuries)
Protestantism has no basis of authority except to attack the Catholic Church.
To accept the bible would be to accept Catholic tradition that compiled the Scriptures into cannon, but then they would have to aknowledge authority of the Catholic Church. Probably not going to happen.
Can any Protestant denom. claim authority directly from Jesus. NOPE.
This debate has missed the crucial question. Why can’t any Protestant denom show any archeological, historical, written evidence to support their claims to have truth and be like “real Christians?” All they can do is attack Catholics. This avoids having to prove their own truths.
History has proven that the early Church what ever it was called acted wholly Roman Catholic.
The had Bishops, Peter was the head and thus were his successors.
The breaking of bread later called the Eucharist was the centerpiece of worship.
Most of those called saints were actually martyrs in the early Church.
Apostolic Traditions were held in the highest regard as a canon had not been developed as of yet. The only way to judge the authenticity of Scripture was to compare it to known Oral Apostolic teachings.
Sounds very Catholic.
So, here is the real question. How can any protestant show that their ideas were those held by the apostolic christians? Well, they can’t because history proves them wrong.
So instead they try to attack the Catholic church because they have NO justification for their own church except to say that Catholics are wrong so the had to become the real church.
But the bible says!!! Protestants would have us believe that we Catholics authorized a Holy Scripture that contradicted our own church and read it to the masses at mass daily. It was only 1500 years after the Bible was written that the true meaning was found (eventhough that meaning contradicts historical christian teachings for centuries)
Protestantism has no basis of authority except to attack the Catholic Church.
To accept the bible would be to accept Catholic tradition that compiled the Scriptures into cannon, but then they would have to aknowledge authority of the Catholic Church. Probably not going to happen.
Can any Protestant denom. claim authority directly from Jesus. NOPE.
This debate has missed the crucial question. Why can’t any Protestant denom show any archeological, historical, written evidence to support their claims to have truth and be like “real Christians?” All they can do is attack Catholics. This avoids having to prove their own truths.
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Spirithound
Guest
You’re arguing over a technical term, on a technical point, and you’re never going to come to a conclusion, because on two different levels, you’re both right. In a non-technical, vernacular sense, Catholicism is a denomination. That’s the way the World looks at it because the World does not care who is right.
In a technical sense, the Catholic Church is not a denomination because we have the fullness of truth. All denominations of Christianity (using denom in the technical sense) split off from the C23, and so they are the variants, not us.
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sterryfamily
Guest
No one knows for sure. But here is a quote from St Ignatius of Antioch who was a disciple of St John, the Apostle and travelled with Sts Peter and Paul (He was appointed Bishop of Antioch by St Peter, himself):Hi,
Im curious as to when the small c in catholic became the big C in Catholic as in the RCC. When did the Church start calling itself the CC as we know it today?
See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid. (Letter to the Smyrneans)
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
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jmcrae
Guest
That was written in 110 AD.Hi,
Thank you Do you know when that was written?
St. Ignatius was being taken away in chains to the Collesium to be martyred for his Christian faith. He wrote seven letters while on the journey. You can read all seven of them in The Faith of the Early Fathers, by William Jurgens - along with many other writings of great Christians who lived at around that time, as well.
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Blue_Serenity
Guest
Did St. Ignatius have any reasoning why he made the little “c” into the big “c”? And why did it stick after that?That was written in 110 AD.
St. Ignatius was being taken away in chains to the Collesium to be martyred for his Christian faith. He wrote seven letters while on the journey. You can read all seven of them in The Faith of the Early Fathers, by William Jurgens - along with many other writings of great Christians who lived at around that time, as well.
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jmcrae
Guest
As far as St. Ignatius was concerned, the little c and the big C were both referring to the same thing. Keep in mind, there were no such things as Eastern Orthodox or Protestant churches during his lifetime.
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sterryfamily
Guest
You make a few mistakes here;
- Christ told us He came to establish His Church. He promised His Spirit would guide that Church into “all truth”, that He would be with that Church “until the end of the age”, and that the gates of Hell would never prevail against that Church.
- That Church didn’t come from the Bible, rather, it gave us the Bible in the late 4th century as a part of the deposit of faith.
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Flying_Bison
Guest
Why are so many people caring about C or c.
It makes no difference. The same Roman Catholic, catholic, CATHOLIC, cAtHoLiC, church or the Chuch is one in the same body.
History can show a link between the Catholics of today and the Bishops/Apostles of the past. Doctorine and belief can to. So if the Vatican wanted to change the name to The XYZ Church, it would still be the same church just with a different name.
It makes no difference. The same Roman Catholic, catholic, CATHOLIC, cAtHoLiC, church or the Chuch is one in the same body.
History can show a link between the Catholics of today and the Bishops/Apostles of the past. Doctorine and belief can to. So if the Vatican wanted to change the name to The XYZ Church, it would still be the same church just with a different name.
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sterryfamily
Guest
Right on!
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Flying_Bison
Guest
Besides the Catholic Church, (not including eastern churches)can any Protestant prove that they have a historical link to Early Christianity? Please prove with either beliefs, structure, or authority.
Nobody seems to ever answer my questions. They simply give bible verses that have absolutely no relation to the questions asked.
Nobody seems to ever answer my questions. They simply give bible verses that have absolutely no relation to the questions asked.
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Blue_Serenity
Guest
What kind of sources (specifically) are you looking for??? I’ll be glad to help, if I can.
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HailMary
Guest
anything you got would be niceWhat kind of sources (specifically) are you looking for??? I’ll be glad to help, if I can.
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