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E.E.N.S
Guest
Seeing that you are a convert to that very Church, I think you know.
(I am a convert too by the way.)
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(I am a convert too by the way.)
J
jmcrae
Guest
Yes, it is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was given to the Church at Pentecost, and continues to speak through the authority of the Church even until now.I know we are going in circles here but the bible tells us it is the HS. I dont know what else to say.Sorry that is all I got
Nowhere in Scripture is the Holy Spirit ever given to an individual, independently of the Church, other than as a means to get that person into the Church. No one who ever received the Holy Spirit outside of the Church ever remained outside of the Church; they were brought in and baptized right away.
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MariaG
Guest
But obviously still disagree withHi Maria,
Im sorry I made you go through all of that.I completely misread what you were saying. What you wrote above I already knew. Im sorry for making you go to the trouble of writing something I was already aware of.
Truly, I donāt understand your desire to believe men 1500-2000 years after the fact and their interpretation, a interpretation on which their livelyhood rests rather than trust an interpretation that can also be found in scripture and is supported by men who lived closer to Christ.
Truly I donāt understand how you can have so little faith in God and His ability and the ability of the Holy Spirit to lead His Church to all truth. You believe He can lead you personally yet was unable to do so for the Church, which scripture declares to be the pillar and foundation of truth. Thatās what it comes down to.
You place more faith in your pastor whom you look to for answers than in scripture and the promises of God about His church.
I find it ironic that a Catholic is chastizing a non-Catholic to have more faith in the promises found in scripture about His Church. But truly I have found this to be the case. Non-Catholics have faith that God can lead them personally, can even lead their pastor personally, but fail to believe that the Holy Spirit is big enough to lead a whole church and keep that Church free from error. You have placed God in a box and declared Him incapable of leading His Church (which for 1000 years was ONLY the Catholic Church) to all truth and in the process, contradict scripture with this belief
A
ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi,But obviously still disagree with
Truly, I donāt understand your desire to believe men 1500-2000 years after the fact and their interpretation, a interpretation on which their livelyhood rests rather than trust an interpretation that can also be found in scripture and is supported by men who lived closer to Christ.
Truly I donāt understand how you can have so little faith in God and His ability and the ability of the Holy Spirit to lead His Church to all truth. You believe He can lead you personally yet was unable to do so for the Church, which scripture declares to be the pillar and foundation of truth. Thatās what it comes down to.
You place more faith in your pastor whom you look to for answers than in scripture and the promises of God about His church.
I find it ironic that a Catholic is chastizing a non-Catholic to have more faith in the promises found in scripture about His Church. But truly I have found this to be the case. Non-Catholics have faith that God can lead them personally, can even lead their pastor personally, but fail to believe that the Holy Spirit is big enough to lead a whole church and keep that Church free from error. You have placed God in a box and declared Him incapable of leading His Church (which for 1000 years was ONLY the Catholic Church) to all truth and in the process, contradict scripture with this belief
The truth is I do have faith in God and the church we just have different definitions on what the church is.
Because of our different definitions of who the church is we will most likely never agree.
M
MariaG
Guest
Sadly, since you continue to believe that people in the last 500 years understand scripture better than those the apostles taught, I think you are correct.Hi,
The truth is I do have faith in God and the church we just have different definitions on what the church is.
Your sister in Christ,
Maria
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mrs_abbott
Guest
Now that IS the question, isnāt it? I donāt think youāre going to get a concensus here on that one.
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Blue_Serenity
Guest
We use many sources for our beliefs, just like Catholics do.
K
Kay_Cee
Guest
Would you please cite your source for your list?We use many sources for our beliefs, just like Catholics do.
BTW, I am certain you do not want to use a source full of misrepresentations, lies, and errors. If you want to discover what the Catholic Church *actually *teaches as opposed to what an anti-Catholic accuses it of teaching, you might want to check the Catechism.
Several errors on that list have already been pointed out to you. Doesnāt that make you question the veracity of it?
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Blue_Serenity
Guest
jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/catholic_heresies-a_list.htm
Just a disclaimer, I think the website itself is not that great and paints a bad picture of Catholics. I used it for the historical timeline, mainly.
J
jmcrae
Guest
Uh - so the fact that itās a bad web site didnāt clue you in that the time-line might contain some major errors, too?
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sterryfamily
Guest
Wowā¦you got a lotta learning ahead. Iād suggest starting with Keatingās Catholicism and Fundamentalism. You can also learn a lot from the tracts in the library here on CA.
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RNRobert
Guest
I second what Sterryfamily and jmcrae said. Donāt go to anti-Catholics to learn about Catholicism. Would you go to a Ford dealer to learn about the performance of Chevy products? Would you ask a Democrat about the Republican party platform?
In addition to sterryfamilyās suggestions (both good) I would also suggest reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
In addition to sterryfamilyās suggestions (both good) I would also suggest reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
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RNRobert
Guest
Also, I would guess that the website you mentioned probably copied their info from Boettnerās book.
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Blue_Serenity
Guest
On the important things no, it was pretty accurate and thatās what I was looking for.
I donāt count wax candles and other miscellaneous things as important.
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sterryfamily
Guest
Blue,On the important things no, it was pretty accurate and thatās what I was looking for.
I donāt count wax candles and other miscellaneous things as important.
On every single point that website made there were falsehoods and misrepresentations. You have been mislead. It is not just on the āunimportantā matters.
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Kay_Cee
Guest
Thank you for the link.
Where did the person who made this website get his information? I didnāt see a single source listed.
Where in **official Catholic documents **can you find verification that what that website says is true?
If someone made a website claiming your church called for its members to eat grapefruit rind and howl at the moon, I think you would wonder where they got their information. Now, if they could point to official documents of your church that claimed such, they would have a point. Lacking such documents, where is the evidence?
The burden of proof is on the one making the accusation. That website provides no proof whatsoever. It looks like a rehash of the same old Boettner list. Boettnerās list has been refuted time and again on this forum.
I agree with sterryfamily that you should read Karl Keatingās *Catholicism and Fundamentalism. *He completely blows Boettner away.
Quite frankly, isnāt it fair to hear our side of things? Or are you going to rely just on anti-Catholic claims without checking to see if theyāre true? Donāt you honestly think you should do that before you state that website is āpretty accurateā?
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jmcrae
Guest
Actually, itās not accurate at all. Did you even cross-check it with a secular encyclopedia?On the important things no, it was pretty accurate and thatās what I was looking for.
Iāve never understood what the deal is with that. (Today is Candlemas, and we had a lot of wax candles at Mass today. I suppose those people would be made completely crazy by that fact.I donāt count wax candles and other miscellaneous things as important.
)
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sterryfamily
Guest
The point is, Blue, that Keating āblows Boettner awayā (and any others, like the site you listed) by citing original source material and without misrepresenting what Boettner (or others) says.
K
Kay_Cee
Guest
R
RNRobert
Guest
Hereās a link to the online version of the Catechism:
scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
And hereās a link to download a free e-book of the Catechism:
hismercy.ca/content/HM_ebooks.html
scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
And hereās a link to download a free e-book of the Catechism:
hismercy.ca/content/HM_ebooks.html
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