No human as authority to say who’s right and who’s wrong. Only the Holy Spirit can do that, since the HS was involved in the writing of the Bible, God’s infallible Word.
Pray for ALL Christianity, that we might quit squabbling over petty things. Lay off a little too with all the questions. You can’t expect ALLFORHIM to possible answer all of those you just pounded her with.I will pray for you. I will ask God to give you the gift of Faith. I will ask Him to remove the scales from your eyes. I will ask Him to send down His Graces through Mary so that you can see with the eyes of Faith, because we should be walking by faith and not by sight.
My head is officially spinning now. :whacky:
So, how does the Holy Spirit convey this information to us? After all, He did not just throw the Bible down from Heaven - He needed human beings to experience His grace in historical events, and then write about it.No human as authority to say who’s right and who’s wrong. Only the Holy Spirit can do that, since the HS was involved in the writing of the Bible, God’s infallible Word.
Pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit to be shown the Truth and “ye that seeks shall find”.
Right. And it’s the prophets and the apostles and others that walked with Jesus who contributed to the Bible under the inspiration of the HS. I take their words and their experiences VERY seriously. I don’t have a problem with sources OUTSIDE of the Bible. They usually go hand in hand with what is written in the Bible and help us better understand.
Okay - except that, above, you are saying, “don’t listen to human beings. Listen only to the Holy Spirit.” But the Holy Spirit speaks through designated human beings. He does not usually whisper directly into my ear. (Sometimes He does - but only when I am being particularly dense, and really need a good swift kick - fortunately, that doesn’t happen very often.)
I do that, and do you know what? He almost always uses a priest to answer me. (And the very few times that He has chosen to whisper in my ear, a priest came along five minutes later and repeated exactly the same thing that He just finished saying to me - just in case I missed it, I guess.Prayer is the key to communicating with God. Pray with sincerity for guidance in Truth. God has never been known to fail.
)I’m glad that God uses a priest to be an instrument of His Word and guide you to the answer.I do that, and do you know what? He almost always uses a priest to answer me. (And the very few times that He has chosen to whisper in my ear, a priest came along five minutes later and repeated exactly the same thing that He just finished saying to me - just in case I missed it, I guess.
God selects other individuals for that same purpose. He’s done it throughout all of time. It’s called divine inspiration. The important thing is to always trust in God and constantly pray. I can’t stress enough the importance of prayer. It is the key to understand God’s Will for us. Bishops, deacons,the Pope. Parents, when speaking to their children. Teachers speaking to their students, etc.I’m glad that God uses a priest to be an instrument of His Word and guide you to the answer.
And He’s always made sure that we knew who those people were, by putting them into specific public positions in society. The Prophets, for example, did not appoint themselves: they were appointed by the King, and both the King and the people knew who they were, and that when they spoke, they were to be listened to.He’s done it throughout all of time. It’s called divine inspiration.
Yes. But if we don’t trust His designated spokesmen, then how will we ever hear the answers He wants to give to us? It becomes a one-way conversation, with us talking to God, but unable to hear His response.The important thing is to always trust in God and constantly pray. I can’t stress enough the importance of prayer. It is the key to understand God’s Will for us.
Agreed.
So you do have the HS then? Why don’t you start your own church then and teach all those Protestant ministers who get it wrong in your eyes? Why don’t you open up your own church and teach the Pope, our Vicar of Christ? After all, he’s wrong about the bible isn’t he?.. according to you?
:bigyikes: What?!! You better be careful what you’re saying here. You’re on the verge of disrespect here. Shall I hit the report button?
Naaa, I won’t. 
You don’t want to make one because you don’t know how to reply to this. That’s what I think.Well, that was a long winded I wont make a judgement call.
I agree with you FCEGM! I wonder if AFH sees the logic in your post. Only if God allows her to see.ALLFORHIM:
So in essence you are the final arbiter of what is or isn’t scriptural. Thus you have only yourself to whom to be obedient, unmindful of “Obey those who have the rule over you and submit yourself, for they watch for your souls …” (Heb 13:17).
Oh, you may temporarily submit to the leaders of whatever congregation you have joined, but when you personally disagree with one or more of their teachings, you are free to leave it and find another sect to join without any question (in your mind or theirs) of your Christian orthodoxy. In other words, you have no objective standard of authority that is outside of your personal, subjective intepretation of Scripture or understanding of what (to your mind) Christianity teaches. Rather, you are your own final authority, and owe obedience to no one/nothing outside yourself - you alone have your own key to a door that may or may not lead you to Christ and His Truth. That’s the best you can expect, not the fullness of the Faith that Christ offers to us in and through His Church which is the extension of His Incarnation in time and place.
But no where in the bible does it say to take it to the bible if there is a disagreement.I have actually never left a church because of doctrinal differences. But if I do disagree with what they are teaching I should go to the leaders and sit down and discuss why I believe what I do and vice versa and then we take it to the bible and which ever one of us is proven wrong by the Scriptures must then submit to what the Word of God says. That is how it should work, sadly you are right though people just leave,just like it is way to easy to get a divorce.
Huh?! I would never do that. I would just have to accept the teaching, obey what the Church says and then go and study scripture if I wanted to, so that I can see if I could understand why the Church teaches a certain thing in a certain way.So by what you say here is that you could also be wrong in your interpretation of scripture. Are you confused? Or is the Holy Spirit confused?
This is part of the reason why we need a teaching authority. There are many paradoxes in the bible, not contradictions.
If those verses referred to our physical birth water than Jesus would not have corrected Nicodemus when he asked if he was supposed to go back into his mother’s womb in order to be born again. That baptism water has nothing to do with the amniotic fluid in which we lived in our mother’s womb.
There is nothing wrong with what AllForHim said. She is right. Just because a person holds a particular office does not guarantee that they have the Holy Spirit. As a matter of fact of I have heard Catholics themselves say the same thing about some of the Popes throughout history. Popes have officially endorsed heresy so her statement is correct and there is nothing disrespectful about it.:bigyikes: What?!! You better be careful what you’re saying here. You’re on the verge of disrespect here. Shall I hit the report button?
Just because believe it doesn’t mean it is true and it is not disrespectful if someone disagrees with your belief. This is a discussion board and this specific one is for non-Catholic religions.
One thing I can say for Blue Serenity is this, I don’t always agree with her, but ‘Serenity’ certainly fits, I don’t anyone here has such a beautiful way of expressing their ideas.
This is correct, to a certain degree. In the past, Popes, bishops etc have acted in their best interest, have not always done what is just, have not represented Christian ideals or worse. ‘Man’ can, and does have the will to turn away from the ‘daily’ guidance of the Holy Spirit and this includes the Pope. He is a man, not God. But, when he speaks ‘From the Chair of Peter’, in matters of Faith, that is a different matter. Can a Pope make the wrong decision in regards to temporal matters, yes, and they have. Can they make wrong decisions in regards to Spiritual matters when it comes to Doctrine or Dogma, no.
Could **you **be wrong in your interpretation of the Catechism or your rule of faith? Would this mean that you are confused? Or is the Holy Spirit is confused?