Who Has the Final Authority?

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Ginger where is the following found in the bible? I am told by SS proponents: if it’s NOT in the bible it’s not to be believed:
COLOR=“Green”]’Not all that the Lord did was written down, but only what was deemed sufficient, either from the point of view of morals, or from the point of view of dogmas.’ Cyril of Alexandria (died A.D. 444) (Comm. John 12).
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’eing most properly assured that the Scriptures are indeed perfect, since they were spoken by the Word of God and His Spirit.’ Irenaeus (ca. A.D. 140-ca. A.D. 202) (Against Heresies 2,28:2).
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’[T]he tokens of truth are more exact as drawn from Scripture, than from other sources.’ Athanasius, the great Patriarch of Alexandria (Nicene Definition 32).
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’If it is nowhere written, then let it fear the woe which impends on all who add or to take away from the written word.’ Tertullian of Carthage (Against Hermogenes 22)
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Ginger2 said:
Why is it Catholics think they have the ability to read other people’s minds 🤷
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Ummmmm…Ginger…Would you do me a :)favor, & look in the upper right-hand corner of any of my posts, read what you find there, & then admit that you don’t always read(nor understand) what is right in front of you??
Since you assume to know my “paradigm”… why don’t you tell me what you think I believe and we’ll see how close you get.
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You are a fervent believer in Sola Scriptura who believes that anyone can open up the Bible, read a passage, understand it, & base their doctrinal understanding on what was just read…even if you read it wrong, even if you didn’t know all the words,** even if you just saw the word “Catholic” right up there where it says “Methodist”**. Because that is what you expected it to say when you had your paradigm challenged.🤷
 
Zooey said:
Yeah, your sister probably would think that Jon & I are :eek:dreadful. I have a lot of friends & family like that, too. It’s tough, isn’t it?
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Not really. Only when she says things about the CC that are not true, like: Catholics worship Mary, etc…:banghead:
 
joe370 said:
Ginger where is the following found in the bible? I am told by SS proponents: if it’s NOT in the bible it’s not to be believed:
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lol I already said I like to use respected Catholic sources when dialogging with Catholics.

But I never said, “if it’s NOT in the bible it’s not to be believed” I also have never heard anyone make that claim. I think it is your personal misundertsanding.
 
Zooey said:
You are a fervent believer in Sola Scriptura who believes that anyone can open up the Bible, read a passage, understand it, & base their doctrinal understanding on what was just read…even if you read it wrong, even if you didn’t know all the words
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And you are wrong. Not “anyone”…only those whose minds have been opened to understanding by God. It says so in the Bible!!!
 
Ginger2 said:
lol I already said I like to use respected Catholic sources when dialogging with Catholics.

But I never said, “if it’s NOT in the bible it’s not to be believed” I also have never heard anyone make that claim. I think it is your personal misundertsanding.
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So, if it’s NOT in the bible, (like the assumption of Mary) - it can be believed as truth?

I too enjoy using catholic sources when dialoging with non-Catholics. 👍
 
Ginger2 said:
And you are wrong. Not “anyone”…only those whose minds have been opened to understanding by God. It says so in the Bible!!!
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[SIGN1]
:rolleyes: Chapter & verse, yean, chapter & verse? Ye cannae expect anyone tae take ye seriously, if ye dinnae quote the chapter & the verse!
[/SIGN1]
 
joe370 said:
So, if it’s NOT in the bible, (like the assumption of Mary) - it can be believed as truth?

I too enjoy using catholic sources when dialoging with non-Catholics. 👍
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Yes!

But you have no basis to force me to believe it.
 
Ginger2 said:
Then why don’t you ask someone who makes that false claim?
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Ginger2:
It says so in the Bible!!!
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:coffeeread: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :compcoff:…
 
Ginger2 said:
I love to use Catholic sources when dialogging with Catholics, so:

’Not all that the Lord did was written down, but only what was deemed sufficient, either from the point of view of morals, or from the point of view of dogmas.’ Cyril of Alexandria (died A.D. 444) (Comm. John 12).

’eing most properly assured that the Scriptures are indeed perfect, since they were spoken by the Word of God and His Spirit.’ Irenaeus (ca. A.D. 140-ca. A.D. 202) (Against Heresies 2,28:2).

’[T]he tokens of truth are more exact as drawn from Scripture, than from other sources.’ Athanasius, the great Patriarch of Alexandria (Nicene Definition 32).

’If it is nowhere written, then let it fear the woe which impends on all who add or to take away from the written word.’ Tertullian of Carthage (Against Hermogenes 22)

And love telling non-Catholics who use the above quotes how they are taken OUT-OF-CONTEXT in order to present a smoking gun. Try again! Next time try reading the entire quotes in their entirety. If the above believed in the Bible-Only,show me one exhaustive work from any of the above church father defending the Bible-Only?
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Ginger2 said:
I did not make that claim.

I said “I am not bound [by pain of death] to believe it.”
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Oh yes you did:

*Gal 1:8 &1 John 5:13 I am not required to believe anything not clearly written in the Scriptures. *

So why do you adhere to a 27 NT canon? Where is the 27 NT canon written clearly in the Scriptures?
 
Zooey said:
[SIGN1]
:rolleyes: Chapter & verse, yean, chapter & verse? Ye cannae expect anyone tae take ye seriously, if ye dinnae quote the chapter & the verse!
[/SIGN1]
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There are so many…where do I begin?

luke 24:45; Psalms 119:18; 1 Cor 1:18; 2 cor 3:15; John 16:13…

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes

2 thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2 cor 4:3-4 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1 Thess 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake
 
Ginger2 said:
I love to use Catholic sources when dialogging with Catholics, so:

’Not all that the Lord did was written down, but only what was deemed sufficient, either from the point of view of morals, or from the point of view of dogmas.’ Cyril of Alexandria (died A.D. 444) (Comm. John 12).

’eing most properly assured that the Scriptures are indeed perfect, since they were spoken by the Word of God and His Spirit.’ Irenaeus (ca. A.D. 140-ca. A.D. 202) (Against Heresies 2,28:2).

’[T]he tokens of truth are more exact as drawn from Scripture, than from other sources.’ Athanasius, the great Patriarch of Alexandria (Nicene Definition 32).

’If it is nowhere written, then let it fear the woe which impends on all who add or to take away from the written word.’ Tertullian of Carthage (Against Hermogenes 22)

I agree with Cyril that not all that the Lord did was written down, but only what was deemed sufficient but Cyril of Alexandria embraced tradition as well:

“To prevent some in ignorance from thinking, because of the different titles of the Holy Spirit, that these are different spirits and not one and the same (and One only), the Catholic Church has provided for your SAFETY in the TRADITIONAL CONFESSION OF THE FAITH [Schaff: “the Catholic Church guarding thee beforehand hath delivered to thee in the profession of the faith”], which commands us to ‘believe in one Holy Spirit, the Advocate, who spoke by the prophets…’” ibid 27,3

As did Irenaeus:

"Through none others know we the disposition of our salvation, than those through whom the gospel came to us, first heralding it, then by the will of God delivering to us the Scriptures, which were to be the foundation and pillar of our faith…But when, the heretics are accusing the Scriptures, as if they were wrong, and unauthoritative, and were variable, and the truth could not be extracted from them by those who were ignorant of tradition…And when we challenge them in turn what that TRADITION, which is from the Apostles, which is guarded by the SUCCESSION of elders in the churches, they OPPOSE THEMSELVES TO TRADITION, saying that they are wiser, not only than those elders, but even than the Apostles.

As did Athanasius:

“But our faith is right, and starts from the teaching of the Apostles and TRADITION of the FATHERS, being confirmed both by the New Testament and the Old.” Epis 60

As did Tertullian:

Error of doctrine in the churches must necessarily have produced various issues. When, however, that which is deposited among many is found to be one and the same, it is not the result of error, but of tradition. Can any one, then, be reckless enough to say that they were in error who handed on the TRADITION? (Prescription Against Heretics 28)
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Nicea325 said:
Oh yes you did:

*Gal 1:8 &1 John 5:13 I am not required to believe anything *not clearly written in the Scriptures.
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The claim was that “if it’s not in the Bible it is not to be believed” in-other-words, it is to be denied, rejected.

I said “I am not required to believe it”.
 
[bibledrb] Luke 24:45 [/bibledrb]
[bibledrb] Psalm 119:18 [/bibledrb] ???
[bibledrb] I Cor 1:18[/bibledrb] ???
[bibledrb] II Cor 3:15[/bibledrb] ???
[bibledrb] John 16:13 [/bibledrb]
 
Ginger2 said:
The claim was that “if it’s not in the Bible it is not to be believed” in-other-words, it is to be denied, rejected.

I said “I am not required to believe it”.
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Which begs the question Ginger2: Where does written Scripture clearly mention 27 NT books for the canon? Do you reject it or deny it? :hmmm:
 
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