Who has the possibility of salvation?

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I have a question that has been bothering me and I haven’t been able to find an answer. I was hoping someone could help me clear it up. The question is that the athanasian creed says that unless a man believes in the Holy Trinity he can’t be saved, but then Vatican II said that muslims, jews and athiests have the possibility of salvation, none of them believe in the Holy Trinity. How can this be? Is one document infallible and the other isn’t or am I just understanding one of them wrong?
 
Hi!

From my understanding, non-Catholics can be saved; however, it would not be from the merit of their respective religions. If they have never been introduced to the truth of the Catholic Church, then they can not have that ignorance held against them.

From what I’ve been taught, salvation is only through the Catholic Church. Therefore, non-Catholics could not be saved strictly because of their Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, etc. beliefs.

Their state of grace of their own particular souls would obviously left up to God’s judgment. I have also heard that purgatory could be a time of re-education for them to learn about the truths of salvation.

Just my speculation. I hope this helps a little.
 
bogart said:
I have a question that has been bothering me and I haven’t been able to find an answer. I was hoping someone could help me clear it up. The question is that the athanasian creed says that unless a man believes in the Holy Trinity he can’t be saved, but then Vatican II said that muslims, jews and athiests have the possibility of salvation, none of them believe in the Holy Trinity. How can this be? Is one document infallible and the other isn’t or am I just understanding one of them wrong?
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possibility ≠ will be saved

[Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph # 846]

Therefore it is our job to spread the truth so that everyone knows

what they do or don’t do with that knowledge then, is not only up to them, it determines their future

One’s ignorance isn’t always innocent. Especially today, given the ease of obtaining information, [Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph # 1791]
 
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Everyone has the possibility to be saved, but a non-Christian won’t be saved because of their religion. The way I heard it, God can give non-believers the opportunity to repent and believe prior to their judgement.
 
Only through Christ can we be saved.
But those who never knew of Christ in this world may still be saved through Christ.
 
There’s actually a short, good article on the Catholic Answers web site;


The Athanasian Creed was written in the 6th c. with a particular purpose–to distinguish orthodox Catholics from Arian heretics. You are taking a creed from a particular time and place that was aimed at a group that no longer exists and making it a universal creed. That fact that it is almost never used should give you a hint of its current status. It’s an interesting historical artifact.

Christ died for mankind. Not just Catholics, everyone. Because of Christ’s sacrifice, Heaven is open to all mankind–whether they make the effort to go there or not is up to them. Certainly non-Catholics who live good lives may go to Heaven, just as Catholics who do not live good lives may end up in Hell.
 
bogart said:
the athanasian creed says that unless a man believes in the Holy Trinity he can’t be saved, but then Vatican II said that muslims, jews and athiests have the possibility of salvation, none of them believe in the Holy Trinity. How can this be? Is one document infallible and the other isn’t or am I just understanding one of them wrong?
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Erikaspirit16 said:
The Athanasian Creed was written in the 6th c. with a particular purpose–to distinguish orthodox Catholics from Arian heretics. You are taking a creed from a particular time and place that was aimed at a group that no longer exists and making it a universal creed.
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This! 👍

@Bogart, as @Erikaspirit16 points out, the part you’re missing is the question of the audience of the Athanasian Creed. It was meant to be recited by Catholics (well, Christians, but it was written back when there was only one Christian Church - the one Church that Jesus founded and Peter had first led). And therefore, everything it says is something that Catholics should believe. More to the point, the things that it says are things that Catholics are bound to believe in order to be saved.

However, what that Creed is not saying is that its tenets must be held by all people, whether Christian or not. Therefore, both the Athanasian Creed and the documents of the 2nd Vatican Council are true (and moreover, are not in conflict with each other).
 
Erikaspirit16 said:
There’s actually a short, good article on the Catholic Answers web site;

What "No Salvation Outside the Church" Means | Catholic Answers

The Athanasian Creed was written in the 6th c. with a particular purpose–to distinguish orthodox Catholics from Arian heretics. You are taking a creed from a particular time and place that was aimed at a group that no longer exists and making it a universal creed. That fact that it is almost never used should give you a hint of its current status. It’s an interesting historical artifact.

Christ died for mankind. Not just Catholics, everyone. Because of Christ’s sacrifice, Heaven is open to all mankind–whether they make the effort to go there or not is up to them. Certainly non-Catholics who live good lives may go to Heaven, just as Catholics who do not live good lives may end up in Hell.
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Only through Christ can we be saved.
But those who never knew of Christ in this world may still be saved through Christ.
 
Here’s what the Church Magisterium teaches:

FROM OUR CATHOLIC CATECHISM

1260 “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848 “Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.”

GOD WILL, BECAUSE AS GOD HE MUST PASS FINAL JUDGMENT UPON EACH SOUL BASED UPON WHAT HE [GOD] HAS MADE POSSIBLE FOR THAT SOUL TO KNOW, ACCEPT, & LIVE
 
PJM said:
Here’s what the Church Magisterium teaches:

FROM OUR CATHOLIC CATECHISM

1260 “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity
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that said,

The CCC also points out, ignorance isn’t always innocent, so fault IS theirs when
[Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph # 1791]

and

can be saved ≠ will be saved
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PJM:
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."
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Yet Ignorance must be innocent to be an effective escape from fault. See link above
 
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The refusal to believe, which then denies the person salvation, must be an actual mortal sin. If a person commits the objective mortal sin of refusing to believe, but without the full culpability of an actual mortal sin, then they can perhaps be saved. The documents are not wrong, they simply need to be understood in the light of other magisterial teachings.
 
Baptized people can go to Heaven. Baptism by desire (the person HIMSELF desires to be baptized) can occur. Or baptism by blood (martyrs).

Baptized non-Catholics can enter heaven as long as they have committed no mortal sins, or if they have, can perform an act of perfect contrition before they die (very, very difficult for even devout Catholics, much less non-Christians).

It is theoretically possible that God can come at the moment of death (not after) and show a person a vision which then leads them to either desire baptism or make an act of perfect contrition. After death, their will is fixed and “the tree lies where it falls”.

Good actions cannot merit Heaven for non-baptized or non-believers.

It is theoretically possible (and likely in some scenarios) that God has saved some Muslims, modern Jews, and even atheists in the manner I describe (death bed conversions). It is safe to assume that most of them are either in Hell or perhaps in limbo.

Ignorance cannot save. That doesn’t mean the ignorant are necessarily lost, but it is not their ignorance which saves, for there is no salvation in ignorance but only in belief.

A single unforgiven mortal sin will bar a person from meriting Heaven. The benefit Catholics have is that we can have imperfect contrition and through confession be forgiven our mortal sins. Non-Catholics do not have this protection and must make perfect acts of contrition.
 
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Heaven was opened at the moment Jesus fulfilled the scriptures and died on that cross. The human heart that is open to the Love Jesus has for all of us gives one the grace to know HIM. In one instant His reply to the one next to Him on the cross was 'today you will be with Me in paradise." God Bless.
 
anna said:
Heaven was opened at the moment Jesus fulfilled the scriptures and died on that cross. The human heart that is open to the Love Jesus has for all of us gives one the grace to know HIM. In one instant His reply to the one next to Him on the cross was 'today you will be with Me in paradise." God Bless.
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That was only after that thief
suffered tremendously himself
defended Jesus to the other thief, during his own suffering
recognized Jesus for who he is
asked for His mercy

An entire theology course was represented in the few words the good thief spoke.
 
Erikaspirit16 said:
There’s actually a short, good article on the Catholic Answers web site;

What "No Salvation Outside the Church" Means | Catholic Answers

The Athanasian Creed was written in the 6th c. with a particular purpose–to distinguish orthodox Catholics from Arian heretics. You are taking a creed from a particular time and place that was aimed at a group that no longer exists and making it a universal creed. That fact that it is almost never used should give you a hint of its current status. It’s an interesting historical artifact.

Christ died for mankind. Not just Catholics, everyone. Because of Christ’s sacrifice, Heaven is open to all mankind–whether they make the effort to go there or not is up to them. Certainly non-Catholics who live good lives may go to Heaven, just as Catholics who do not live good lives may end up in Hell.
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Well, what the Athanasian Creed states regarding the persons of the Trinity is still very valid and concise, to my knowledge, though statements about what’s “necessary for salvation” should be put in the context you provide.
 
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The question is: Who has the possibility of salvation?

AS MAN CAN DO NOTHING TO SAVE HIMSELF (OUR SALVATION IS GOD’S FREE GIFT) IT IS TRUE TO SAY:

Everyone saved and will be saved for whom God willing and acting to save.
.

THE WAY GOD SAVES A PERSON

COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 Chapter 8
. . . None of those things which precede justification - whether faith or works - merit the grace itself of justification.
.

CCCS = Catechism of the Catholic Church, Simplified.

Explaining Justification
CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.
Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and obedience to God’s will are given to us.
.

The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998)
Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.

By Baptism, the person participates in the life of the three Divine Persons because Christ (the Head of his Body) makes us adopted children of God.
We receive the Spirit and henceforth call God “Father.”

This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming totally from God’s decision and surpassing all power of human intellect and will. End quote.
.

Aquinas said, “God changes the will without forcing it.
But he can change the will from the fact that He himself operates in the will as He does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9.

.

ST. AUGUSTINE ON GRACE AND PREDESTINATION

De gratia Christi 25, 26:
"For not only has God given us our ability and helps it, but He even works [brings about] willing and acting in us; not that we do not will or that we do not act, but that without His help we neither will anything good nor do it."
.

De gratia et libero arbitrio 16, 32:
"It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good. . . . It is certain that we act when we act, but He brings it about that we act, PROVIDING MOST EFFECTIVE POWERS TO THE WILL."

.

Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”

.

Similarly, the Council of Orange Canon 25 states, "In every good work, it is not we who begin … but He (God) first inspires us." (#329.2)

.

CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”

In other words, when God commands, He capacities the hearer to respond.

Our cooperation is produced (not just enabled) by God’s operation.

Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.

God bless.
 
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Latin said:
CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”

In other words, when God commands, He capacities the hearer to respond.

Our cooperation is produced (not just enabled) by God’s operation.

Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.

God bless.
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2022 The divine initiative in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man. Grace responds to the deepest yearnings of human freedom, calls freedom to cooperate with it, and perfects freedom."

People always have the freedom to resist grace. And most do resist grace, or there would be no more sin in the world, nor any need for the sacrament of reconciliation.

or there would also be no need to warn anyone, about mortal sin or hell.

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end."
 
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steve-b said:
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Latin:
1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, …

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end."
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God bless you Steve and God bless every readers of the CAF.

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1035 and 1037 must be interpreted and understand in the light of the relating teachings of the Catholic Church.

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Just one addition to 1035 and 1037 from among many related teachings of 1035 and 1037:

Those who have received the grace of God’s call (1996-1998) and God’s special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance infallible protected from to die in the state of mortal sin and end up in hell, furthermore these two gifts of graces are irresistible. – DE FIDE Dogma + Infallible teachings of the Trent.

.
The receivers of God’s special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance to die in the state of mortal sin and the possibility that they end up in hell does NOT EXIST.

In the final analyses, for the receivers of God’s undeserved IRRESISTIBLE grace The Gift of Final Perseverance practically wipe out the existence of hell. – DE FIDE Dogma, the highest degree of theological certainty. + Infallible teachings of the Trent.

.
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I agree with you Steve, we all have a freedom to resist grace.

I even go further than you, I believe sometimes we all resist grace, but the crux of the knowledge is, to know what kind of graces we can resist and sometimes we all resist, and what kind of graces we NEVER resist, because we are protected by God’s special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance from the rejection of some kind of graces.
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FOR EXAMPLE
Sometimes we all receive in vain and resist actual grace which inspires us to do certain good acts, or sometimes we all receive in vain and resist graces which would prevent us from commit some kind of acts of sins.

.

THE CRUX OF THE MATTER IS: THERE ARE GRACES WE ARE ALWAYS COOPERATE.

FOR EXAMPLE

CCCS = Catechism of the Catholic Church, Simplified.

Explaining Justification
CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.
Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and obedience to God’s will are given to us.
.

The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998)
Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.

By Baptism, the person participates in the life of the three Divine Persons because Christ (the Head of his Body) makes us adopted children of God.
We receive the Spirit and henceforth call God “Father.”

This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming totally from God’s decision and surpassing all power of human intellect and will. End quote.
.
Continue
 
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Continuation

ANOTHER EXAMPLE:

WE ALWAYS COOPERATE WITH GOD’S GRACE THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE

GOD’S GRACE THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE IS AN INFALLIBLE PROTECTION OF EVERY INITIALLY JUSTIFIED

.
THE GIFT OF FINAL PERSEVERANCE

Quote: St. Thomas Aquinas, In his Summa Theologiae he wrote:

[P]erseverance is called he abiding in good TO the end of life.

And in order to have this perseverance man . . . needs the divine assistance guiding him and guarding him against the attacks of the passions . . . that he may be kept from evil TILL the end of his life (ST IIa:109:10)

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This same teaching was infallibly taught by the Council of Trent after the Protestant Reformation.

.

A Tiptoe Through TULIP by James Akin

Quote: Trent’s Decree of Justification, canon 16, speaks of “That Great and Special Gift of Final Perseverance,” and chapter 13 of the decree speaks of "the gift of perseverance of which it is written:

‘He who perseveres to the end shall be saved [Matt. 10:22, 24:13],’ Which cannot be obtained from anyone except from Him who is able to make him who stands to stand [Rom. 14:4]."

Aquinas said it always saves a person because of the kind of grace it is; The gift of final perseverance always works.

.

Catholics even have a special name for the GRACE God gives these people: “The Gift of Final Perseverance.”
.

The Church formally teaches that there is a Gift of Final Perseverance.

Aquinas (and even Molina) said this grace always ensures that a person will persevere.

Aquinas said, “Predestination [to final salvation] most certainly and infallibly takes effect.”

In order to have this perseverance man…needs the divine assistance guiding and guarding him against the attacks of the passions…” End quote

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Continue
 
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