Who Hates Your Church?

[tGette]

Of all the Christian denominations, non-denominations, sects, etc out in the world:

Many of these “types” of Christians seem to accept each other and are content with their invisible unity. So…
Despite this, which of them all is the one everyone is pointing their finger at saying “Wrong”???

Jesus said this:

John 15:18-21
"If the world hates you, realize that it hated me first.If you belonged to the world, the world would love its own; but because you do not belong to the world, and I have chosen you out of the world, the world hates you. Remember the word I spoke to you, 8 ‘No slave is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. And they will do all these things to you on account of my name, because they do not know the one who sent me

I am sure others have posted this quote by Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen, but I remember user RNRobert posting this quote:

If I were not a Catholic, and were looking for the true Church in the world today, I would look for the one Church which did not get along well with the world; in other words, I would look for the Church which the world hates. My reason for doing this would be, that if Christ is in any one of the churches in the world today, He must still be hated as He was when He was on earth in the flesh. If you would find Christ today, then find the Church that does not get along with the world. Look for the Church that is hated by the world, as Christ was hated by the world. Look for the Church that is accused of being behind the times, as Our Lord was accused of being ignorant and having never learned. Look for the church which men sneer at as being socially inferior, as they sneered at Our Lord because he came from Nazareth. Look for the Church which is accused of having a devil, as Our Lord was accused of being possessed by Beelzebub, the Prince of the devils. Look for the Church which, in seasons of bigotry, men say must be destroyed in the name of God as men crucified Christ and thought they had done a service to God. Look for the Church which the world rejects because it claims it is infallible, as Pilate rejected Christ because He called Himself the Truth. Look for the Church that is rejected by the world as Our Lord was rejected by men. Look for the Church which amid the confusion of conflicting opinions, its members love as they love Christ, and respect its Voice as the very voice of its Founder, and the suspicion will grow, that if the Church is unpopular with the spirit of the world, then it is unworldly, and if it is unworldly, it is other-worldly, Since it is other-worldly it is infinitely loved and infinitely hated as was Christ Himself. But only that which is divine infinitely hated and infinitely loved. Therefore the Church is Divine.

 

[Lilyflower]

Of all the Christian denominations, non-denominations, sects, etc out in the world:

Many of these “types” of Christians seem to accept each other and are content with their invisible unity. So…
Despite this, which of them all is the one everyone is pointing their finger at saying “Wrong”???

Jesus said this:I am sure others have posted this quote by Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen, but I remember user RNRobert posting this quote:

Satan knows which Church to attack

Blessings and peace

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

I’m not sure what you’re getting at. If the best way of telling which church is the “True Church” is according to whomever is most universally regarded as wrong, then I think I’d be forced to come to the conclusion the the LDS Church is the “One True Church”.

Fortunately, that’s not the criteria I’m using

 

[RNRobert]

I’m not sure what you’re getting at. If the best way of telling which church is the “True Church” is according to whomever is most universally regarded as wrong, then I think I’d be forced to come to the conclusion the the LDS Church is the “One True Church”.

Fortunately, that’s not the criteria I’m using

Perhaps, but when was the last time you heard the LDS church referred to as the “Whore of Babylon?” I’ve rarely heard Evangelical preachers say much about the Mormons, but they’ll let you know what they think about the Catholic Church in a New York minute!

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

Perhaps, but when was the last time you heard the LDS church referred to as the “Whore of Babylon?” I’ve rarely heard Evangelical preachers say much about the Mormons, but they’ll let you know what they think about the Catholic Church in a New York minute!

Hm, I’ve never heard an Evangelical refer to the Catholic church that way, and I’ve been living among them all my life. I don’t doubt that they exist in some circles, but the idea that hatred of the Catholic Church is a widespread, common phenomenon really doesn’t match up with the reality on the ground. Certainly there’s great disagreement with some doctrines of the Church, but that’s hardly the same thing…and I don’t think there’s any case to be made that Protestants view Catholicism worse than Mormonism, quite the opposite. If you don’t believe me, feel free to ask my brothers and sisters about the matter.

 

[tGette]

I’m not sure what you’re getting at. If the best way of telling which church is the “True Church” is according to whomever is most universally regarded as wrong, then I think I’d be forced to come to the conclusion the the LDS Church is the “One True Church”.

Fortunately, that’s not the criteria I’m using

I knew someone would use that argument! Thank you for your logical response!

Though, the LDS Church has no historical backing as the One True Church.

The Catholic Church adamantly and incessantly teaches that it contains the fullness of revealed truth (just as Jesus said he was Truth and even Pontius Pilate wondered “What is Truth?”).

No Church fits the profile of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has everything support her and virtually everyone against her. Sounds like Jesus to me!

Also, the LDS is founded by one man…and that man was not our Divine Lord!

Again, thanks for that expected response! (I do not say that to belittle your response!)

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

Well yes, but now you’ve changed your argument. It’s not enough to be the most hated church, but you also must be the most hated church which has “all the right qualifications”. What are these qualifications?

 

[tGette]

Well yes, but now you’ve changed your argument. It’s not enough to be the most hated church, but you also must be the most hated church which has “all the right qualifications”. What are these qualifications?

To be the Church founded by Jesus Christ!

What a cop-out answer, huh?

I should add, their beliefs should be reconcilable with Scripture. It does not hurt to also be the Church to have the only claim to have given us that very Scripture.

The thread was not intended so much as an argument, though the quote by Archbishop Sheen would have you believe other wise. The purpose of this thread is to provoke thought. And to make a point!

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

Well, I believe that Mormons would argue that their beliefs are reconcilable with scripture. I’m sure you and I would disagree, but then they could cite that disagreement as further proof of how much we persecute them because we see the truth in it and fear it.

The idea that “because we’re being persecuted for our faith, that faith must be correct” is appealing, but it really isn’t particularly helpful for discerning that this or that is the “One True Church”. If a faith found that it was largely in accord and agreement with the forces of this world I think that could well serve as a red flag, but since that’s not the case for many, many faiths I really don’t see how getting into an argument along the lines of

“I’m more persecuted”
“No, I am!”

would be illuminating or helpful.

 

[tGette]

Well, I believe that Mormons would argue that their beliefs are reconcilable with scripture. I’m sure you and I would disagree, but then they could cite that disagreement as further proof of how much we persecute them because we see the truth in it and fear it.

The idea that “because we’re being persecuted for our faith, that faith must be correct” is appealing, but it really isn’t particularly helpful for discerning that this or that is the “One True Church”. If a faith found that it was largely in accord and agreement with the forces of this world I think that could well serve as a red flag, but since that’s not the case for many, many faiths I really don’t see how getting into an argument along the lines of

“I’m more persecuted”
“No, I am!”

would be illuminating or helpful.

That is the kind of response I was looking for.

I was not necessarily looking to convince anyone of anything with this thread. Just to see what it means to different believers. Obviously it will invoke a different response for everyone…that is the great thing!

 

[Rightlydivide]

We must be careful about a persecution complex. A church as large as the Catholic church has both its proponents and opponents based upon geography and so forth.
Universally “hated”. Jehovah Witnesses. I meet few people neutral about them.

Who hates MY church?
Satan!

 

[RNRobert]

Hm, I’ve never heard an Evangelical refer to the Catholic church that way, and I’ve been living among them all my life. I don’t doubt that they exist in some circles, but the idea that hatred of the Catholic Church is a widespread, common phenomenon really doesn’t match up with the reality on the ground. Certainly there’s great disagreement with some doctrines of the Church, but that’s hardly the same thing…and I don’t think there’s any case to be made that Protestants view Catholicism worse than Mormonism, quite the opposite. If you don’t believe me, feel free to ask my brothers and sisters about the matter.

Nowadays, most Evangelicals take a more benign attitude (although I believe it was Luther & Calvin & Co that started the whole “Whore of Babylon” thing). However, anti-Catholic hatred is alive and well:

pccmonroe.org/ecumenism/morethanthese.pdf

And “Catholic Church=Whore of Babylon/Pope=antichrist” is a staple of SDA teaching. Also, we can’t forget Jack Chick and his noxious little tracts.

As I said, most Evangelicals take a more benign attitude, although they still view the Catholic Church quite differently than they do other Protestant denominations.I recall the president of this evangelical radio station saying that “Catholics might be Christians, although they have things like the Mass.” On another evangelical program, there was a letter written in by someone who “learned it was wrong to worship the Virgin Mary” (which Catholics don’t).

 

[a_cermak]

I believe most Christian Churches believe my religion is wrong, as they do the Hindus, Muslims, Jains, Sikhs… So are all those religions true? Granted none of them refer to themselves as a Church.

 

[RNRobert]

I believe most Christian Churches believe my religion is wrong, as they do the Hindus, Muslims, Jains, Sikhs… So are all those religions true? Granted none of them refer to themselves as a Church.

Christians do not believe Judaism is wrong per se, simply replaced. The point the OP was trying to make was that while non-Catholic Christian groups disagree on many things, they all agree that the Catholic Church is wrong.

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

Nowadays, most Evangelicals take a more benign attitude (although I believe it was Luther & Calvin & Co that started the whole “Whore of Babylon” thing). However, anti-Catholic hatred is alive and well:

pccmonroe.org/ecumenism/morethanthese.pdf

And “Catholic Church=Whore of Babylon/Pope=antichrist” is a staple of SDA teaching. Also, we can’t forget Jack Chick and his noxious little tracts.

As I said, most Evangelicals take a more benign attitude, although they still view the Catholic Church quite differently than they do other Protestant denominations.I recall the president of this evangelical radio station saying that “Catholics might be Christians, although they have things like the Mass.” On another evangelical program, there was a letter written in by someone who “learned it was wrong to worship the Virgin Mary” (which Catholics don’t).

It’s a long distance from “I can find people out there who believe this” to “these attitudes are highly prevalent”. Certainly Evangelicals tend to view Catholicism differently from Protestant denominations, as they are closer in doctrine with other Protestants denomination than they are with the Catholic Church. Wouldn’t you say that you view Protestant denominations differently than you do the Orthodox Church? “View them differently” or “believe they are mistaken on some important issues” is hardly the same thing as looking for an opportunity to condemn them at a moment’s notice.

I don’t think that seeking out a single congregation which is unaffiliated with any other church and using their views to insinuate that Catholic hatred is common among Evangelicals. Certainly there are individuals who misunderstand things about Catholicism as with those last examples you cited, just as misunderstandings commonly happen in the reverse direction (including, apparently, your mistaken belief that Evangelicals generally condemn the RCC as the heretical “Whore of Babylon”).

If you truly believe the Evangelicals generally take a benign attitude towards Catholicism, please don’t trot out extreme examples as though they were commonly held belief (which is exactly what you implied in your first post). The body of Christ has enough division without people projecting false beliefs onto
others.

 

[M0nkey]

Wow. It’s been a while since I’ve ran into such garbage. I was once given similar booklets claiming the CC to be ‘counterfeit Christianity.’ I threw it out as soon as I finished reading it.