Who is a Christian, anyhow?

[Hatikvah]

I put this under non-Catholic Religions because I’m not addressing Catholicism itself. I’m not disputing that. I see Catholicism as squarely inside of Christianity, and I’m sure most others here would agree. I wanted to get around to this thread for quite some time. I’ve seen people on here say that Mormons are “not Christians, but Mormons,” and that Jehovah’s Witnesses are “not Christians, but Jehovah’s Witnesses.” Both groups deny the Trinity, and both deny Hell (Spirit Prison and soul sleep respectively).

Yet, this bring to mind the question: who is a Christian?

I’ve seen others question whether non-Catholics are even Christian. (That would exclude ~980,000,000, or 980 million, non-Catholics who identify as Christians. That even includes breakaway groups like Old Catholics and Independent Catholics.)

There are many widely held beliefs that most Christians would agree on: the Trinity, Heaven and Hell, Christ’s suffering and atonement, original sin, the inerrancy of Scripture, the resurrection of the dead, etc. Of course, there are always groups that dispute these for some reason… I’m assuming that the Catholic definition of a Christian is a person baptised in the name of the Trinity. There was a thread titled “Are members of the Community of Christ Christians?” and it referred to their belief in the Trinity.

There are varying definitions among others, it appears. Here’s an Armstrongian article (they are Binitarians, so they do not believe in the Trinity), a Calvinist article (GotQuestions), and another Calvinist article.

Wikipedia, an irreligious source (or it’s supposed to be) states:

A Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.

Then pretty much anybody can identify themselves as a Christian if they are willing to associate with Jesus Christ. But Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and all these other Restorationist groups, Trinitarian or not, would be “Christians.”

So if definitions vary, can we really know who a Christian is?

What beliefs actually define Christianity? They vary, and there are still groups (although oftentimes small) that dispute entire ecumenical councils, major doctrines, and so on.

Does Jesus Christ accept the willing, sincere fellowship of faithful Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses as His friends? He said that a person can be His friend if they do what He commands (John 15:14-15).

And then, of course, we have the list of groups that identify themselves as Christians: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members

 

[meltzerboy]

I put this under non-Catholic Religions because I’m not addressing Catholicism itself. I’m not disputing that. I see Catholicism as squarely inside of Christianity, and I’m sure most others here would agree. I wanted to get around to this thread for quite some time. I’ve seen people on here say that Mormons are “not Christians, but Mormons,” and that Jehovah’s Witnesses are “not Christians, but Jehovah’s Witnesses.” Both groups deny the Trinity, and both deny Hell (Spirit Prison and soul sleep respectively).

Yet, this bring to mind the question: who is a Christian?

I’ve seen others question whether non-Catholics are even Christian. (That would exclude ~980,000,000, or 980 million, non-Catholics who identify as Christians. That even includes breakaway groups like Old Catholics and Independent Catholics.)

There are many widely held beliefs that most Christians would agree on: the Trinity, Heaven and Hell, Christ’s suffering and atonement, original sin, the inerrancy of Scripture, the resurrection of the dead, etc. Of course, there are always groups that dispute these for some reason… I’m assuming that the Catholic definition of a Christian is a person baptised in the name of the Trinity. There was a thread titled “Are members of the Community of Christ Christians?” and it referred to their belief in the Trinity.

There are varying definitions among others, it appears. Here’s an Armstrongian article (they are Binitarians, so they do not believe in the Trinity), a Calvinist article (GotQuestions), and another Calvinist article.

Wikipedia, an irreligious source (or it’s supposed to be) states:

Then pretty much anybody can identify themselves as a Christian if they are willing to associate with Jesus Christ. But Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and all these other Restorationist groups, Trinitarian or not, would be “Christians.”

So if definitions vary, can we really know who a Christian is?

What beliefs actually define Christianity? They vary, and there are still groups (although oftentimes small) that dispute entire ecumenical councils, major doctrines, and so on.

Does Jesus Christ accept the willing, sincere fellowship of faithful Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses as His friends? He said that a person can be His friend if they do what He commands (John 15:14-15).

And then, of course, we have the list of groups that identify themselves as Christians: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members

I am not going to answer your question directly. What I can say, however, is that, as in many definitions where there includes a great variety, one can speak of degrees and closeness to the central prototype rather than necessarily giving a black-or-white response. So, as in the case of who is a Jew, or what is art, music, literature, and so on, there are certain people who are directly in the center of being Christian, others who are further removed, and still others who are considered to be on the periphery. Of course, where one is situated may very well depend on who is doing the classification or categorization.

 

[Michael68]

I would say a Christian is someone who follows Jesus Christ and His Church. That being said, anyone with a valid baptism is considered a member of the Body of Christ

 

[HelenRose]

Christian means of or belonging to Christ.

Every Church - every denomination could argue the definition of this from now until eternity. At which time God will make the final definition. Arguing over semantics is a royal waste of time.

“Christian” is a word. Belonging to Christ is a state of being.

I am a Catholic Christian. I belong to the Catholic Church and I belong to Christ.

The Catholic Church teaches one baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Other Churches that teach that are recognized as sharing the same baptism.

Other Churches such as the Mormon Church have a different form of baptism.

I will leave it up to Christ to make a further definition.

 

[superwimp]

Hello Hatikvah,

  I'm pretty close to the wikopedia definition.  I chose not to claim I am a Christian therefore I don't personally have a dog in the fight.  
 Proper communication involves one person speaking or writing words and others understanding what those words mean.  I'm referring to the average man on the street.  Going through your list: If a person says he is a Christian the average person won't make any assumptions with regards to his belief or disbelief in the trinity and hell.  He won't assume you are Catholic. 
>>>There are many widely held beliefs that most Christians would agree on: the Trinity, Heaven and Hell, Christ's suffering and atonement, original sin, the inerrancy of Scripture, the resurrection of the dead, etc.<<<

Since Jesus is promoted as Savior, I think a man on the street would make the assumption that the Christian believed in Christ’s suffering and attonement. I don’t think he would assume the other stuff.

Does Jesus Christ accept the willing, sincere fellowship of faithful Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses as His friends? He said that a person can be His friend if they do what He commands (John 15:14-15).<<<

Who Jesus accepts or doesn’t accept is irrelevant to the definition of Christian.

 

[GratefulFred]

According to my Webster’s:

**CHRISTIAN: **a person professing belief in Jesus as the Christ, or in the religion based on the teachings of Jesus

**CHRIST: ** the Messiah whose appearance is prophesied in the Old Testament

**MESSIAH: ** 1. *Judaism *the promised and expected deliverer of the Jews, who will bring an era of peace and justice
2. *Christianity *Jesus, regarded as the realization of the prophecy that the Messiah would come, and hence called the Christ

I refer to Webster’s because many will take issue and so I use a most commonly accepted definition.

The key word, I think is “belief.” Again, Webster’s tells us 'acceptance that certain things are true or real.'

At the acceptance level, I presume there are countless Christians. At the action level - trying one’s best to act according to the Teachings of Christ, the number may be somewhat smaller. How much smaller, I do not know as I cannot know someone else’s heart.

Here is a short checklist to measure your own degree of acceptance and action:

Matthew 16: 15-19 Christ establishes His Church and puts Peter in charge.
**Matthew 22: 36-40 ** The two great commandments of Love.
**John 6: 51-56 Luke 22: 19-20 ** The real presence of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist
John 20: 19-23 The power to forgive sins.
John 14: 23-26 Admonishment to keep the words of Christ and be guided by the Holy Spirit.

 

[wllmjoseph]

I would say a Christian is someone who follows Jesus Christ and His Church. That being said, anyone with a valid baptism is considered a member of the Body of Christ

A valid baptism would also mean that they believe that Jesus is God the Son.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

A lot more identify as such than practice. There’s no way that 60-70% of the nation identifies as Christian and we have so many anti-Christian activities and legislation…

 

[Thom18]

In my eyes, a Christian is anyone who is baptized in the Trinitarian form, even those who don’t practice. I might even extend that to baptized Christians who have converted, as I don’t think conversion takes away the benefit of baptism.

 

[Hatikvah]

A lot more identify as such than practice. There’s no way that 60-70% of the nation identifies as Christian and we have so many anti-Christian activities and legislation…

I believe the same. But it is not so in other countries. People in, say, Greece or in Italy are probably more sincere in their faith than here. But they believe in “something” or might be “spiritual,” as they say.

And why do they have Christian marriages when they’re not sincere? We don’t know, so we cannot really tell. Only God would know.

 

[GLam8833]

In John 3, Jesus attests that to enter the
Kingdom of God, that is to qualify as a
“Christian” one must be “born again” of the
Spirit of God, this agrees with what John
the Baptist says of Jesus, who will baptize
with the Holy Spirit(John 1:33) We are baptized
by one Spirit into One Body, whether Catholic
or Protestant, rich or poor!! (1 Cor. 12:13)

 

[Padres1969]

Were you baptized in the Trinitarian formula as described in the Nicene Creed? Do you still consider yourself Christian? Then congrats, you’re Christian.

 

[jmcrae]

The Early Church defined it as those who adhere to the teachings referenced in the Nicene Creed.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Were you baptized in the Trinitarian formula as described in the Nicene Creed? Do you still consider yourself Christian? Then congrats, you’re Christian.

OR… If Christ calls you by saying, ‘Follow me.’ And you do. Sometimes it’s simple. (And sometimes not.)

 

[jcrichton]

…Mormons are “not Christians, but Mormons,” and that Jehovah’s Witnesses are “not Christians, but Jehovah’s Witnesses.” Both groups deny the Trinity, and both deny Hell (Spirit Prison and soul sleep respectively).

…who is a Christian?

I’ve seen others question whether non-Catholics are even Christian. (That would exclude ~980,000,000, or 980 million, non-Catholics who identify as Christians. That even includes breakaway groups like Old Catholics and Independent Catholics.)

There are many widely held beliefs that most Christians would agree on: the Trinity, Heaven and Hell, Christ’s suffering and atonement, original sin, the inerrancy of Scripture, the resurrection of the dead, etc. Of course, there are always groups that dispute these for some reason… I’m assuming that the Catholic definition of a Christian is a person baptised in the name of the Trinity. There was a thread titled “Are members of the Community of Christ Christians?” and it referred to their belief in the Trinity.

There are varying definitions among others, it appears. Here’s an Armstrongian article (they are Binitarians, so they do not believe in the Trinity), a Calvinist article (GotQuestions), and another Calvinist article.

Wikipedia…

Then pretty much anybody can identify themselves as a Christian if they are willing to associate with Jesus Christ. But Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and all these other Restorationist groups, Trinitarian or not, would be “Christians.”

So if definitions vary, can we really know who a Christian is?

What beliefs actually define Christianity? They vary, and there are still groups (although oftentimes small) that dispute entire ecumenical councils, major doctrines, and so on.

Does Jesus Christ accept the willing, sincere fellowship of faithful Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses as His friends? He said that a person can be His friend if they do what He commands (John 15:14-15).

And then, of course, we have the list of groups that identify themselves as Christians: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members

…that’s a huge demand… let’s see if I can break it down a little…

Here’s Jesus’ definition:

21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. (St. Matthew 7:21)

…clearly, claiming a blanket title does not work–what does?

Jesus says that anyone claiming to Follow Him must do the will of the Father… so what is the Will of the Father?:

6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith: And let all the angels of God adore him. 7 And to the angels indeed he saith: He that maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But to the Son: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: (Hebrews 1:6-8)

While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!” (St. Matthew 17:5)

40 And this is the will of my Father that sent me: that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth in him, may have life everlasting, and I will raise him up in the last day. (St. John 6:40)

…hence, a Christian must Believe and Obey both the Father and the Son. Here’s how St. Paul puts it:

17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but justice, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. 18 For he that in this serveth Christ, pleaseth God, and is approved of men. 19 Therefore let us follow after the things that are of peace; and keep the things that are of edification one towards another. (Romans 14:17-19)

Scriptures attest that to gain the Father’s approval (become an heir with Christ) one must not only Believe and Obey, but also Serve Christ–in the Holy Spirit! :bigyikes::bigyikes::bigyikes:

Now, could there be some wiggle-room for denying Christ’s Authority and Divinity or rejection of the Holy Trinity?:

3 Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (St. John 17:3)

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true adorers shall adore the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeketh such to adore him. 24 God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth. (St. John 4:23-24)

1 Now concerning spiritual things, my brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2 You know that when you were heathens, you went to dumb idols, according as you were led. 3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man, speaking by the Spirit of God, saith Anathema to Jesus. And no man can say the Lord Jesus, but by the Holy Ghost. (1 Corinthians 12:1-3)

20 And we know that the Son of God is come: and he hath given us understanding that we may know the true God, and may be in his true Son. This is the true God and life eternal. (1 St. John 5:20)

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Michael68]

A lot more identify as such than practice. There’s no way that 60-70% of the nation identifies as Christian and we have so many anti-Christian activities and legislation…

The silent majority vs the vocal minority

 

[Marcel28]

The Athanasian Creed answers your question Straight and honest

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled; without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of the God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.

 

[jane_doe]

who is a Christian?

,
So if definitions vary, can we really know who a Christian is?

What beliefs actually define Christianity? They vary, and there are still groups (although oftentimes small) that dispute entire ecumenical councils, major doctrines, and so on.

Does Jesus Christ accept the willing, sincere fellowship of faithful Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses as His friends? He said that a person can be His friend if they do what He commands (John 15:14-15).

The answer to that question varies on who you ask. Obviously the True answer lies with Christ, as He knows His own. The Biblical definition would be a “disciple of Christ”, but then the question becomes who is a disciple of Christ?

Various religious groups would answer this question differently, and then various social/political scientists would answer it all in different ways. Every group could point to their own answer, resting on the authority they see in it (whether that be a church statement, a Creed, a university, a textbook, majority rule, folk-knowledge etc).

 

[Hatikvah]

The silent majority vs the vocal minority

True, true… we must remember this when times are tough. But we have a privilege of saying this, the early saints and martyrs never did in the Roman era.

 

[Hatikvah]

The answer to that question varies on who you ask. Obviously the True answer lies with Christ, as He knows His own. The Biblical definition would be a “disciple of Christ”, but then the question becomes who is a disciple of Christ?

Various religious groups would answer this question differently, and then various social/political scientists would answer it all in different ways. Every group could point to their own answer, resting on the authority they see in it (whether that be a church statement, a Creed, a university, a textbook, majority rule, folk-knowledge etc).

Absolutely! That’s why I made this thread: to point it out. Christians are still a very diverse group, and we have always been (1 John, for example, was written against early schismatics and Gnostic groups).

And, amongst all of this, we still have the fellowship of Jesus Christ – He knows His faithful, and He always will.