Who is for/against centering prayer?

  • Thread starter Thread starter AlanFromWichita
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

AlanFromWichita

Guest
After getting back into the “centering prayer wars” for a bit, I got to wondering whether those who speak ill of or are otherwise negative about centering prayer are also negative about Lectio Divina and other contemplative forms.

My hypothesis is that people who speak strongly against centering prayer are, by and large, do not have an experience of contemplative prayer in general. This of course will not prove anything but might give a good calibration.

There are several variables I’d like to take into account but I have limited questions, so I’ll necessarily “lump” anyone with experience at any contemplative prayer form together.

Alan
 
Archbishop Fulton Sheen once remarked: “There are not over a hundred people who hate the Roman Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church.”

The same could be said of centering prayer. Almost all the critiques I’ve read about it are based on flawed readings of the texts.
 
I had to vote other. I have not used contemplative prayer myself and my parish doesn’t promote it, but some friends from the parish do practice it. They are good, solid, orthodox Catholics (these are people I know well, not just aquaintances), so I would be shocked if what they were doing was new agey or not in keeping with the faith.
 
There is centering prayer, and there is centering prayer.

Centering prayer in the Catholic tradition, taught by solid Catholic practitioners, is a wonderful tool which would certainly benefit many.

Centering prayer (like any other good thing) can be misused and misunderstood, mostly unknowingly but in a few instances deliberately. That doesn’t make the idea or tradition of centering prayer wrong, but that doesn’t help those who have been misled.

One of my old signature lines was a quote from Alexander Pope: “A little learning is a dangerous thing”. . .and this subject is a prime example. Most people tend to overestimate their knowledge on a given subject (cough, cough, guilty as charged myself 😃 ) and can more easily fall into error yet be convinced that they are really right and know “better” than someone they perceive as not equally knowledgeable.

Still, I would have to say that the centering prayer as has been used in Catholic tradition (the Cloud of Unknowing, or other contemplative tradition) is well worth the effort to research and to practice, with expert guidance and above all humility.
 
It depends on your definition of centering prayer.

If it involves centering yourself on God, it is fine.

If it involves emptying yourself, it is extremely dangerous.
 
40.png
AlanFromWichita:
My hypothesis is that people who speak strongly against centering prayer are, by and large, do not have an experience of contemplative prayer in general
Click to expand...
Alan, I’ll always give you an “A” for effort 😃 but the debate you’re talking about has been going on from the beginning of time and will continue to the end of time. It won’t be solved anytime soon here at good 'ol CA Forums. 🙂

Leaving the CP aspect out of it and speaking of contemplative prayer in a more general sense, there are always those who think of it as folly, a waste of time . . . or even dangerous. St. Teresa of Avilia herself spent considerable time strenghening her sisters not to be disheartend by those (especially spiritual directors) who thought any sort of “mental prayer” was entirely inappropriate. To a certain degree, it was precisely because of these objections that she wrote many of her works.

Yes Alan, lack of experience is often at the root of objections - always has been, always will be . . . and St. Teresa was well aware of this. Readiness for contemplation is the key . . . and readiness is a gift from God. Look to her descriptions of the mansions in Interior Castle to how all this works . . . the answers to your questions lie there.

Simply put, *until one is drawn by the Holy Spirit * to recognize resting in the Lord as the end result of our prayer, then any contemplative method will seem unnatural or even wrong. To illustrate the inherant interior tensions in what I’m saying, think of this: How many of us at one time or another when, praying the rosary for example, have resisted the urge to slow down and rest in silent, wordless prayer? How many times have we thought the important thing is to “finish?” How we learn to deal with this (surrender or resist) is a gift from God . . . the gift of experience. And He gives these gifts to each of us in His own time and in His own way.

So Alan, IMHO, the bottom-line is this: by definition we are all at different points on the same spiritual path . . . should it be any wonder then why there are so many different opinions on things?

Dave.
 
I think the issue with centering prayer is best answered in the Catechism…if by centering prayer you mean one of these things, then we can be sure that it is not a good think.
2726 In the battle of prayer, we must face in ourselves and around us erroneous notions of prayer. *Some people view prayer as a simple psychological activity, others as an effort of concentration to reach a mental void. Still others reduce prayer to ritual words and postures. * Many Christians unconsciously regard prayer as an occupation that is incompatible with all the other things they have to do: they “don’t have the time.” Those who seek God by prayer are quickly discouraged because they do not know that prayer comes also from the Holy Spirit and not from themselves alone.
Click to expand...
The italics are mine to emphasize what I consider to be the negative centering of prayer…

Some see centering prayer as the isolation of certain words or principals that are supposed to have an effect. This would kind of go against what we do when we pray in the Holy Spirit, and ask that the Father’s will be done. We don’t look to have an effect, we look to ask God to cause an effect assuming he wants to. So praying with a specific desired effect in mind, not based on the idea that it is caused by God, but because we caused it by that prayer would be dangerous and prideful.

Also, I don’t think we were not intended to meditate on Jesus’ sacred name, for instance. His passion, yes, but not simply his name. In the Bible his name was an active principle that one also must actively invoke, as is prayer. Prayer is not necessarily a mediation simply to evoke something from OUR will.

Now, if there is another aspect to centering prayer, would someone please explain the semantics?

God bless,
Aaron
 
40.png
AlanFromWichita:
. . .My hypothesis is that people who speak strongly against centering prayer are, by and large, do not have an experience of contemplative prayer in general. This of course will not prove anything but might give a good calibration.
Click to expand...
So far, Alan, (admittedly with few responses at this point) your hypothesis is proving erroneous. 🙂
 
T.A.Stobie:
It depends on your definition of centering prayer.

If it involves centering yourself on God, it is fine.

If it involves emptying yourself, it is extremely dangerous.
Click to expand...
That seems pretty reasonable. Centering prayer is a way of focusing on God, a way of strengthening the relationship between you and God.

A meditation which seeks to dissolve one’s awareness of self would also dissolve awareness of relationship (and relationship with God is the point of prayer).
 
well, as was stated before, there is centering prayer and centering prayer.

But what this means is that there is the verb “to center” with which one says that they focus their prayer, but there is also a theological term, or rather, an apologetic term of “centering prayer” which is different than just focusing on God.

God bless,
Aaron
 
. . . and if union with God in contemplation is the end we seek, why are we so concerned with the means to get there? If God wants to call us to contemplation He’ll do it anyway He likes . . . whether one is doing vocal prayer, meditation, Lectio, CP . . . gazing at a beautiful sunset . . . whatever.

In fact, St. Teresa made the Lord’s Prayer the focus of her discussion in The Way of Perfection to show how even good old vocal prayer . . . when properly prayed *by a loving heart * . . . can raise one to the heights of “perfect contemplation.”

I wonder how many of us have ever wondered why the two Doctors the Church has given us on mystical prayer (St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila) spend so little of their time on methods? Could it be they just don’t matter? IMHO, the Doctors teach us contemplation is simply an exchange between loving hearts . . . and when you get right down to it love doesn’t need methods.

So debating the relative merits of this or that approach seems to miss the point entirely (and in this I’m as guilty as anybody else around here). Debates rob us of our peace . . . and peace is precisely the fruit of contemplation. So isn’t all this counter-intuitive?

Dave.
 
Thank you everyone for your wonderful replies. I don’t exactly understand them all yet, but I’d rather not try to comment other than thank you. This has given me a lot to go on.

I am not trying to “resolve” anything age-old here. I don’t think there is anyone, contemplative or not, who denies the value of contemplative prayer. What I was originally hoping to find out was how people would come out in the quiz – whether critics of Fr. Keating and centering prayer were mostly experienced in contemplative prayer or just had book knowledge.

What I got instead was a good deal of information I’d like to consider more, and I thank everyone for the contributions – and delivered with positive attitudes. 🙂 The only question I’m getting is what is meant by “emptying yourself” in a context that is dangerous, and in way it is. In CP, one attempts to let go of any particular thoughts or concerns during the time they are praying, but I’m not sure if this is what you mean.

Thanks again,
Alan
 
40.png
DBT:
So debating the relative merits of this or that approach seems to miss the point entirely (and in this I’m as guilty as anybody else around here). Debates rob us of our peace . . . and peace is precisely the fruit of contemplation. So isn’t all this counter-intuitive?

Dave.
Click to expand...
It does seem counter-intuitive, and I think I owe you an explanation of why I am willing to keep it going. 👍

To me, whether any given individual is called to contemplative prayer of the CP variety is irrelevant and Not My Problem. What is my problem is the fact that I have felt belittled in many ways by others who don’t understand what they are saying. What I believe is that by polite discourses such as this one, I am hoping to promote Catholic unity within a group of people such as those willing to have a polite conversation on the subject even on both sides of the “CP is dangerous” issue.

Many people try to insist on thinking alike as a measure of unity, but to me we can work toward it incrementally by at least learning to put our cards on the table without either side worrying about getting nitpicked. :o

Alan
 
I think that centering prayer takes the intellect out of prayer. And this is dangerous.

The only “God” inside in Catholic Theology that we can put a finger on is our conscience, and this is in relation to action, not passivity.

St. John of the Cross does describe methods in the sense that he describes failures and descriptions of confirmation of the right course. For he saw it as something that must be learned, not experimented with. And he is a Doctor of the Church because his approach, description, and practice was theologically sound.

The intellect was very much at work in St. John of the Cross’ work. The Dark Night of the Soul is an experience that came upon him and then he explained it. And yet, he looked for ecstatic union through humility and regular prayer. contemplative prayer still requires the intellect to participate in the process of prayer. For prayer is an active, not passive occurence. Meditating, on the other hand, has been shown to be much more useful to Catholic prayer when one meditates on fact (Christ’s Passion, the ressurection, etc…) rather than imagination. Centering prayer is not the same as directing prayer. And the Church calls for integrating prayer into our daily lives as laity. Not separating our daily experience from it.

On top of that, a Cloistered nun, or a Carmelite brother is in a very different reality than someone working as a professional. That is not to say that contemplative prayer is unique to the cloistered, but that the fasting and dedication and work that goes into such specialized meditations is of a sort that requires both practice and grace.

Ecstatic vision, that I know of never came from someone centering prayer, if not simply praying and God choosing to give them union with Him. Thus ends of centering prayer seems too ego-oriented, not in furthing our imitation of say Christ or Mary, but trying to seek a vision that was rightfully someone else’s a thousand years ago given by God.

The means is important to prayer. The means is so important to the ends that we are not supposed to simply will our own means because it feels good to us. Read your catechism and see what the purpose of prayer is. And thus you will not assume that you are called to centered prayer. We are called to our vocation. And we do everything good by the Spirit. But simply because something interests you does not mean that it is a calling.

We do have a unity in the Church whether we agree or not. But we also have a unity based on warning others to be careful.

God bless and remember, the devil finds work for idle minds,
Aaron
 
40.png
AlanFromWichita:
What is my problem is the fact that I have felt belittled in many ways by others who don’t understand what they are saying.
Click to expand...
Hi Alan -

You have a passion I admire greatly . . . but don’t trouble yourself so much with what others around here think 🙂 Do what you can . . . but leave the outcomes of your efforts on these forums to God.

This simple statement is an example of a “method” the Doctors DO teach - the way of virtue: humility, abandonment and detachment. These are the foundations on which a contemplative life is built . . . whether one is cloistered or living in the world.

And if you want some sort of proof that the path you’re walking is correct. . . simply look for signs of growth in virtue in your own life. If you see it, you probably have little to fear.

Dave
 
I have been reading and learning about CP, and while I have not found it as productive as I would like (in terms of whether I am feeling the Holy Spirit coming to me), the theory of CP makes total sense to me and belongs in a Catholic’s prayer “arsenal”.

Why?

To me, the prayers we do otherwise, whether they repetitive with contemplation (rosary), rote (Our Father), conversational (our own words), are heavy on the “us talking”. If prayer is a true establishment of a relationship with God, where is the listening? To me, CP is just and only that - “listening”. Whether I prayerfully read the Scriptures or Imitation of Christ, or whether I sit silently and listen for what God may choose to say to me while I am in a reverential place, that’s all CP is. And I think listening is as much of a factor in building our love and relationship with God as talking is.

My .02…
 
I have used both CP and Lectio Divina on numerous occasions and find both valuable and useful, at least as taught by Keating. I have had occasions where I was drawn into contemplation during CP, but more occasions when I was not.

Thank you for being willing to continue addressing this Alan since the level of misinformation out there is amazing, as is the number of people who just continue to quote the handful of sources who just don’t like it, without having explored it themselves. 😦

Peace, 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top