Who is in charge of YOUR church?

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Gabriel_of_12 said:
I understood your statement, and Yes these communities would recognize Peter as their head as far as the teachings on faith and Morals. Peter and councils sent their letters to all the sorrounding areas of their decisions in council and these communities were given instruction to heed these revealed teachings. Some but not all of Peter’s, Paul’s and other apostles writings did not get cannonized by the Catholic church, because the Catholic council prevented them, because under the guidance of the holy spirit, they were told these books were not inspired of God.

Can you imagine that, A Pope and a council of Bishops determined under the Holy Spirit which books were inspired of God and which books were not. A repeat of the first councils recorded in sacred scripture.
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I know thqat is what you believe.
But you couldnt be more wrong.
 
Hisalone said:
I know thqat is what you believe.
But you couldnt be more wrong.
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Are you saying Sacred Scripture and Sacred Traditoin are wrong because that is where I get this from, I did not make it up. Or it isn’t my own interpretation of scripture.

What part you dont understand that draws a wrong conclusion?
 
Gabriel_of_12 said:
Sacred Tradition the apostle St.Thomas.

Do you need scripture to support the assumption? have those also
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N.T the doctrine of Assumption: 2 Cor.12:1-5, 1 Cor.15:51…1 thessalonians 5:9-11
Revelation11:19-12:1, Hebrews 11:1-3, 11:5, O.T, 2 kings 2:1…,Psalm 45:10b and following, Isaiah 66:9-10a, Psalm 132:8…Song of Song 2:1-4, Luke 1;50-52, Isaiah 62:3…, Isaiah 54:5…Iam sorry mathematician but I cant recall all of them, there are couple of them missing here.

Now can you answer the post please, or has fear gripped your heart, or is it pride that keeps you from God. Who is your infallible teacher on earth that teaches you truth about God?
 
Gabriel_of_12 said:
Are you saying Sacred Scripture and Sacred Traditoin are wrong because that is where I get this from, I did not make it up. Or it isn’t my own interpretation of scripture.

What part you dont understand that draws a wrong conclusion?
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You have been spoon feed, that is where you get it from.
Meditate on scripture, on the interaction of the churches in the epistles and the book of Acts. They were fighting over whether they wer of Apollos or of Paul and of other leaders. The notion of primacy came after the first century.
 
Hisalone said:
You have been spoon feed, that is where you get it from.
Meditate on scripture, on the interaction of the churches in the epistles and the book of Acts. They were fighting over whether they wer of Apollos or of Paul and of other leaders. The notion of primacy came after the first century.
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Your one isolated event in scripture disqualifies the whole 2000 year old teachings of authority, are you serious? Yes your isolated of many christian communities had their doubting thomas’s just like protestants today. Many of the early christian communities had difficulty, but the Peter and the apostles excercising their authority settled the matters when it affected the entire christian community. When their difficulties did not affect the whole church’s teaching, only isolated, then the Apostle himself as overseer handled the matter himself, either by visit, orally, or letter. The visits you may not be aware of without Sacred Tradition with Sacred Scripture to support it.

Maybe this is why you are having a hard time accepting authority, because you are seeing it with only one eye Sacred Scripture. That is why Sola Scriptura is not the fullness of Truth.

After the first century the oral traditions were getting qualified by the Popes and bishops the successors of the Apostles. That is the difference between Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture you need them both to confirm you are in the Church that Jesus and the Apostles handed down their own teachings and revelation of God.

BTW, what does spoon fed mean?
 
Gabriel_of_12 said:
Sacred Tradition the apostle St.Thomas.

Do you need scripture to support the assumption? have those also
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There is no record of the doctrine earlier than the fourth century. Did the apostles use a worm hole to communicate it to them?
 
DJgang said:
I attended a great speaking yesterday afternoon and the speaker mentioned this question. She had asked herself before coming into the Catholic Church this question and her, like I, could not answer it as a Protestant.

So I ask you, non-Catholics…who, here on earth, is in charge of your church?

I am serious and sincere in my question.

Thanks.
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Bingo! That’s a very good question! Everybody knows (or can easily know) all info about Benedict XVI, his face, his biography, the place where he lives. While protestant leaders are hiding somewhere (except for Elizabeth II). Why are they hiding? Are they afraid to show their faces? Are they afraid to openly express their beliefs? How can anybody trust people who behave like this?
 
angelusm said:
Bingo! That’s a very good question! Everybody knows (or can easily know) all info about Benedict XVI, his face, his biography, the place where he lives. While protestant leaders are hiding somewhere (except for Elizabeth II). Why are they hiding? Are they afraid to show their faces? Are they afraid to openly express their beliefs? How can anybody trust people who behave like this?
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No one is afraid. We just know that you only ask because you want to take the time to tell us how wrong we are. At least we study for ourselves (many of us) and do not rely on someone else to tell us the truth. That’s called working out your salvation. There is no fear on out part. We are just tired of being verbally beat up by folks like you who say the things you say. We would not want someone who says the things you say tp trust us. Why? Because we know we would be told (as we have been already on one thread) heretics just because we want and desire ecumenism. I know, that’s a heresy, and if that is so do you think we are heretics? Be honest.
 
DJgang said:
I attended a great speaking yesterday afternoon and the speaker mentioned this question. She had asked herself before coming into the Catholic Church this question and her, like I, could not answer it as a Protestant.

So I ask you, non-Catholics…who, here on earth, is in charge of your church?

I am serious and sincere in my question.

Thanks.
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The heirarchy was explained to me by a Methodist minister. (There is a definite heirarchy.) The leaders of different areas get together to discuss the direction of the whole church. There really isn’t one person who is “in control”.

I think that’s a serious flaw. IMO, it’s how we’ve ended up with so many Protestant denominations (5,000 last I heard). When one person (sometimes several) doesn’t agree with the decision, they choose to leave the group rather than accept the decision.

I guess it’s really about self-importance. About thinking that you know better than others how things should be.

I’ve seen some churches split over things that would have me running, too, so I understand the impulse to say “See ya.”

But is it really good for mere people to keep starting new churches?

So any Protestant who says that Jesus is the leader of their church on Earth, has never been a member of a Protestant church that split. Well, I guess they would say that it was Jesus who led their guy’s decision to leave the larger group, and so they are the real X denomination. And all of them would make the same claim. But is God really leading all of these people in all different directions??? 🤷
 
mathematician said:
There is no record of the doctrine earlier than the fourth century. Did the apostles use a worm hole to communicate it to them?
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This is what appears to be many misunderstandings about 2000 years of Catholic teaching. The teachings of the Jesus and the Apostles do not become doctrine Infallible until a teaching comes under attack by heretics, it gets heard, then it is settled “Thus says the Lord”

Isn’t it amazing that the already belief about Mary in her assumption and Mother of God, does not get under attack 400 years later after the Resurrection of our Lord and the death of the Apostles.

Can you imagine the infallible teachings of Jesus and the apostles on authority does not come under attack till 1870, so as to claim “Thus says the Lord” on Infallible teachings on faith and morals by the Chair of Peter the present day Pope.

Amazing that today mathematician still has a problem with authority, after it has been settled.
 
Gabriel_of_12 said:
Your one isolated event in scripture disqualifies the whole 2000 year old teachings of authority, are you serious? Yes your isolated of many christian communities had their doubting thomas’s just like protestants today. Many of the early christian communities had difficulty, but the Peter and the apostles excercising their authority settled the matters when it affected the entire christian community. When their difficulties did not affect the whole church’s teaching, only isolated, then the Apostle himself as overseer handled the matter himself, either by visit, orally, or letter. The visits you may not be aware of without Sacred Tradition with Sacred Scripture to support it.

Maybe this is why you are having a hard time accepting authority, because you are seeing it with only one eye Sacred Scripture. That is why Sola Scriptura is not the fullness of Truth.

After the first century the oral traditions were getting qualified by the Popes and bishops the successors of the Apostles. That is the difference between Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture you need them both to confirm you are in the Church that Jesus and the Apostles handed down their own teachings and revelation of God.
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Last night on The Journey Home Marcus Grodi went through the ECF’s letters that helped lead him into the Church. Very interesting stuff. And one of the things for him was Authority, HMMM…
 
bklynbrat said:
Last night on The Journey Home Marcus Grodi went through the ECF’s letters that helped lead him into the Church. Very interesting stuff. And one of the things for him was Authority, HMMM…
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OOOH! Marcus Grodi, I love that guy, whenever I get a chance to watch his show and guest who have converted to Catholicism from many different denominations, is very edifying. I can see his Catholic faith is loved by him. Maybe we should recommend that authority show to our guests and friends here.
 
Gabriel_of_12 said:
OOOH! Marcus Grodi, I love that guy, whenever I get a chance to watch his show and guest who have converted to Catholicism from many different denominations, is very edifying. I can see his Catholic faith is loved by him. Maybe we should recommend that authority show to our guests and friends here.
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Excellent suggestion Gabriel 😃

The show is on numerous times during the week for those interested…👍
 
Gabriel_of_12 said:
This is what appears to be many misunderstandings about 2000 years of Catholic teaching. The teachings of the Jesus and the Apostles do not become doctrine Infallible until a teaching comes under attack by heretics, it gets heard, then it is settled “Thus says the Lord”

Isn’t it amazing that the already belief about Mary in her assumption and Mother of God, does not get under attack 400 years later after the Resurrection of our Lord and the death of the Apostles.

Can you imagine the infallible teachings of Jesus and the apostles on authority does not come under attack till 1870, so as to claim “Thus says the Lord” on Infallible teachings on faith and morals by the Chair of Peter the present day Pope.

Amazing that today mathematician still has a problem with authority, after it has been settled.
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What has any of that got to do with anything? The first extant mention of the Assumption dates from the late fourth century. For the first three and a half centuries there is not a mention of it anywhere.
 
mathematician said:
What has any of that got to do with anything? The first extant mention of the Assumption dates from the late fourth century. For the first three and a half centuries there is not a mention of it anywhere.
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Because it was already believed, just not made a doctrine yet, until heresy came against the already existing belief.

Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture can help you. But if you follow Sola Scriptura I can understand your blindness to the full truth. So long as your are in the outside of the body of Christ looking in through a window how are you to understand the life lived out in Christianity with out the 5 senses of your living soul. That where God meets us in his true presence, but then you only believe in a symbolic Jesus , Christianity is not a symbolic life, it is a real life lived out in the true presence of Jesus Christ. any thing other is just a symbol that represents the fullness of Truth.

So I cant expect you to understand what you refuse to know.
 
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