Who is Isa of the Quran?

[swariffin]

read this article

missionislam.com/quran/challenge.htm

That is another example of circular reasoning, my friend.

Q : What is the proof that Muhammad was a prophet?
A : Quran said so, and Quran is the word of God.
Q : What is the proof that Quran is the word of God?
A : Muhammad said so.

Thanks for the link anyway. It just convince me of such circular reasoning.

 

[elwill]

To put it in another way, Judaism failed to recognized God’s promise to mankind, and Islam has chosen the wrong side.

yes may be
and i can say the same
theire is no contradiction between islam and massage of jesus , christians failed to recognize his true massage

 

[elwill]

That is another example of circular reasoning, my friend.

Q : What is the proof that Muhammad was a prophet?
A : Quran said so, and Quran is the word of God.
Q : What is the proof that Quran is the word of God?
A : Muhammad said so.

Thanks for the link anyway. It just convince me of such circular reasoning.

if i asked you about your proofs that jesus is God you will tell me bible said so
if i asked you about your proofs that bible contain the truth you will tell me my church said to

are you have different reasoning for the same questions ?

 

[swariffin]

yes may be
and i can say the same
theire is no contradiction between islam and massage of jesus , christians failed to recognize his true massage

In fact, you are not even at the same boat with the Jews, my friend. Jesus and Islam has many contradictions. Surely, Muhammad will never give his right cheek when somebody slap his left one.

 

[swariffin]

if i asked you about your proofs that jesus is God you will tell me bible said so
if i asked you about your proofs that bible contain the truth you will tell me my church said to

are you have different reasoning for the same questions ?

If you ask me the proof that Jesus is God, the answer is 500 people said so (Look at 1 Corinthian 15:1-6). They have seen the risen Jesus after death, even with His “celestial body” (1 Cor 15:40).

If you ask me what is the proof that the bible contain the truth, the answer is time has proven that the bible indeed contain the truth. What was written by many writers from a time span of 4.000 years, all really wrote and point about Christology.

 

[hamba2han]

Quite a few people witnessed David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty vanish in 1983 and countless others watched it on TV.

Should all of us then proclaim Copperfield as someone who has supernatural powers?

I do not believe that Copperfield has this kind of power especially since he himself does not claim that he has.

And so, so what if 500 or so people thought they saw Jesus (pbuh) being crucified?.. What does this prove??

I believe that it was an illusion that people saw when the Statue of Liberty “disappeared” in 1983 and I also believe that it was an illusion that the 500 or so “witnesses” of the crucifixion saw some 2000 years ago.

The point here is that whether one chooses to believe in the crucifixion or not is based entirely on faith alone and not on any concrete evidence whatsoever one way or the other.

 

[MontChevalier]

don’t you think that it’s biased view ?
you can’t rely on writing of nonmuslims about islam alone , you have to read either from muslims themselfs about islam

So it’s biased of me to point out the flaws in Islamic doctrine?

How many women have been stoned to death because of Sharia law?

What about that “apostasy” episode?

If a child didn’t want to be a Muslim, would you kill that child?

 

[sedonaman]

…
by the way , scholars of christianity themselfs admitted the existence of errors and contradiction in the bible

Who? What did they say? You have any Christian references?

if the thoery of muslims about the comforter is true , then you need to believe in mohammed (pbuh) to obey jesus
jesus said according to John
…

The theory of the comforter is a grasp at straws, a desperate attempt by Islam to gain verification from Christianity. Why does Islam have to do this? Why can’t Mohammed stand on his own?

If I have to believe in Mohammed to obey Jesus, what did Jesus teach, according to Islam? Where is his Sermon on the Mount to be found in Islamic foundational texts? Where is the greatest command of all, to love God and neighbor?

 

[sedonaman]

Kinda shows how insecure Islam is about its own theology.

I wonder who would do such a slilly thing without realising it shows their argument to be as thin as a malnourished stick insect.

LOL!

 

[Amir_the_Masihi]

Quite a few people witnessed David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty vanish in 1983 and countless others watched it on TV.

Should all of us then proclaim Copperfield as someone who has supernatural powers?

I do not believe that Copperfield has this kind of power especially since he himself does not claim that he has.

And so, so what if 500 or so people thought they saw Jesus (pbuh) being crucified?.. What does this prove??

I believe that it was an illusion that people saw when the Statue of Liberty “disappeared” in 1983 and I also believe that it was an illusion that the 500 or so “witnesses” of the crucifixion saw some 2000 years ago.

The point here is that whether one chooses to believe in the crucifixion or not is based entirely on faith alone and not on any concrete evidence whatsoever one way or the other.

Well, that’s a two-way street.

What of when Muhammad reportedly split the Moon? Or, while digging trenches before the Battle of the Trench, Muhammad only had to spit on a rock and it crumbled?

Are you willing to take your own medicine and admit that those alleged narrations were - possibly - “illusions” (or just simple fabrications) too?

 

[hamba2han]

Perhaps the following might help shed some light on why Muslims do not view the alleged crucifixion of Prophet Isa (pbuh) as a particularly humongous event the way Christians do:

On the night that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) escaped from Makkah to Madinah, a group of assassins kept vigil all night long around the Prophet’s house, waiting to kill him the moment he left his house early in the morning.

The Prophet [pbuh] and ‘Ali were inside the house and despite the tight siege the group of assassins laid, the Prophet [pbuh] told ‘Ali to sleep in his bed and cover himself with his green mantle and assured him full security under Allâh’s protection and told him that no harm would come to him. The Prophet [pbuh] then came out of the room and cast a handful of dust at the assassins and managed to work his way through them reciting verses of the Noble Qur’ân:

"And We have put a barrier before them, and a barrier behind them, and We have covered them up, so that they cannot see." [Al-Qur’an 36:9]

Even though Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) walked past the assassins, they could not see him and he then proceeded direct to the house of Abu Bakr who immediately accompanied him and both set out southwards and the assassins who laid siege to the house were startled when someone came and informed them that the Prophet [pbuh] had already left. They rushed in and to their utter surprise, found that the person lying in the Prophet’s bed was ‘Ali not Muhammad [pbuh].

From this story, we can see that the Lord is not averse to protecting and saving His Messengers from being harmed by their mortal enemies and I suspect that the method of escape of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) when he walked past the assassins is not dissimilar to the method of escape of Prophet Isa (pbuh) during the alleged crucifixion event… and Allah knows best.

Prophet Isa (pbuh) was indeed saved by the Lord from being harmed by people who wanted to crucify him just as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was saved time and again from being harmed by his many enemies.

And so you see, this alleged crucifixion of Prophet Isa (pbuh) is therefore not a particularly big deal event for Muslims since it is pretty normal for the Lord to protect and save His Prophets (peace be upon them all) from harm.

 

[thirddec]

Perhaps the following might help shed some light on why Muslims do not view the alleged crucifixion of Prophet Isa (pbuh) as a particularly humongous event the way Christians do:

From this story, we can see that the Lord is not averse to protecting and saving His Messengers from being harmed by their mortal enemies and I suspect that the method of escape of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) when he walked past the assassins is not dissimilar to the method of escape of Prophet Isa (pbuh) during the alleged crucifixion event… and Allah knows best

This shows you how little you know about Christian Faith ; if Christ was not Crucified and Resurected then he was a liar and not even a prophet of God. You believe he was a Prophet of God so when he prophesies his own death he must Die.

The fact that Christ had a choice is always clear and in the end he accepts his task. At what point do you believe he gets switched; in the Garden when he suffered so much he sweated blood; at his trials where he was humiliated ; when he had a crown of thorns embedded in his head; when he was scourged ( something that sometimes killed lesser men ); when he carried his cross bleeding to death and pained in every way; when they nailed him to the Cross; at the moment of his death.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

Christ prophethood and messiahship is proved by His miracles ; by His prophesies and by the uncorrupted scripture of the Torah. Even the Jews will say Christ meets many of the criteria for their Messiah just not all ( He will satisfy the rest on his second coming ). Find a practicing Christian or Jew who will say that there are some verses in their books that they think could be aplied to Mohammed. Apart from those that talk of False Prophets and satan appearing as an angel of light

Muhammed has no miracles ; no prophesies worth anything and no Justification from previous Scripture because he says it is corrupted so to use it would be a corrupted justification. He cannot use the Quran as the Quran stands or Falls on Mohammed not the other way round ( if Mohammed cannot prove himself a prophet then we cannot take the Quran as truth. )

Please spend some time to learn of the true Christ and not a pale imitation in case He should Shine so bright that Muhammed would shrink in his brightness.
Christ reaches out to you and wants you to share in His Kingdom and in His love.
Take a chance and I guarrantee you He wont dissappoint you.

Also Mary His Mother could also be trying to reach our muslim brothers and sisters as it may be no coincidence that she chose to appear at Fatima.

And also Soufaniah could if approved be the next stage in her reaching out to our muslim brothers and sisters for her Son Christ. Have you read of any of these events?

soufanieh.com/ENGLISH/eravaz.htm

 

[Amir_the_Masihi]

The Prophet [pbuh] and ‘Ali were inside the house and despite the tight siege the group of assassins laid, the Prophet [pbuh] told ‘Ali to sleep in his bed and cover himself with his green mantle and assured him full security under Allâh’s protection and told him that no harm would come to him. The Prophet [pbuh] then came out of the room and cast a handful of dust at the assassins and managed to work his way through them reciting verses of the Noble Qur’ân:

Prove it.

Clearly, a man blinding and walking past an angry, focused, armed group of “assassins” without being noticed with just a HANDFUL of dust is not possible even if the assassins were as myopic as I am! Of course, that would mean that it was a miracle of Allah that he was not seen.

So. Prove it.

You said:

hamba2han:

And so, so what if 500 or so people thought they saw Jesus (pbuh) being crucified?.. What does this prove??

Well, your “story” was witnessed by a dozen people maximum. Give us one good reason why we, using your own standards, should take your story seriously any more than you take the Crucifixion seriously?! Look at the pot calling the kettle black(!)

P.S. Why dust? Why not sand? Surely, in the desert, sand is much more abundant to come by and therefore the logical choice…

 

[GaryTaylor]

You missing the point it was Magic Dust.

 

[Amir_the_Masihi]

You missing the point it was Magic Dust.

Ah, of course. Though, I’m somewhat concerned that the magic shop was open so late into the night. Makes for bad business.

 

[thirddec]

Well, that’s a two-way street.

What of when Muhammad reportedly split the Moon? Or, while digging trenches before the Battle of the Trench, Muhammad only had to spit on a rock and it crumbled?

Are you willing to take your own medicine and admit that those alleged narrations were - possibly - “illusions” (or just simple fabrications) too?

Well you should know Muhammed believed in magicians and even blamed them for when he imagined doing things just ask Aisha. Which other prophets of God so imagined themselves doing thing and then blamed bad magic?

And this split moon miracle is that the one all your brothers keep posting pictures from NASA to prove but when you move out and see the bigger pictures its clearly a load of rubbish ( i kept a good website address about planetary and lunar riles ; mmmh did he split planets too? )

Christ reaches out for you ; drop the superstition ; leave the jeanies oh sry Jinns behind and reach out and take the hand of Your Saviour Christ who will lead you safely into his Fathers house. “I am the Way ; the Truth and the Life. No one can enter except through ME”

 

[thirddec]

And so, so what if 500 or so people thought they saw Jesus (pbuh) being crucified?.. What does this prove??

It proves he was Crucified as we say and the bible says, and the historians say.

If you are to really suggest that the Roman army and all the masses there imagined Christ at his Trial; scourging at the pillar; walk carry ing cross; nailed an illusion not a body to the cross; made sure it was dead; Took the body down and buried it was some elaborate 21st century magic trick placed in ancient Judea, what planet are you opperating on.

OUR GOD a GOD of TRUTH would never LIE or be part of creating a deception which is just another sort of LIE. Are You saying YOUR GOD would BE A DECIEVER. If your GOD is the GOD of Truth then take the Hand of Christ now and accept his salvation.
Read up on what crucifixion involves and see what he did for you.

Would Mohhamed do this for you?

 

[Windfish]

Christians cannot even provide undeniable proof that the Jesus (pbuh) in the Bible really even existed, can they?

Muslims, on the other hand, can always point to Prophet Isa (pbuh) being mentioned in the Qur’an as proof that Jesus (pbuh) really did exist.

How come, Christians might ask?

Well, why else would a whole chapter in the Qur’an, the holy scripture written in Arabic, be named after a Jewess named Mariam the mother of Prophet Isa (pbuh), were it not for the fact that both mother and son really did exist and are accorded the utmost reverence in Islam… and especially when by comparison, we also consider the fact that the mother of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is not mentioned at all in the Qur’an?

And so face it dear Christians, the fact that Prophet Isa (pbuh) and his mother Mariam are indeed mentioned and accorded the utmost reverence in the Qur’an, is really the strongest and most compelling evidence there is that the both of them really did exist in history.

WHAT?!

:whacky::whacky::whacky: Do you realize how little sense you are making?

 

[swariffin]

And so, so what if 500 or so people thought they saw Jesus (pbuh) being crucified?.. What does this prove??

At least 500 people are much more than 1 (One), as in the case of Muhammad.

 

[swariffin]

Quite a few people witnessed David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty vanish in 1983 and countless others watched it on TV.

Should all of us then proclaim Copperfield as someone who has supernatural powers?

I do not believe that Copperfield has this kind of power especially since he himself does not claim that he has.

And so, so what if 500 or so people thought they saw Jesus (pbuh) being crucified?.. What does this prove??

I believe that it was an illusion that people saw when the Statue of Liberty “disappeared” in 1983 and I also believe that it was an illusion that the 500 or so “witnesses” of the crucifixion saw some 2000 years ago.

The point here is that whether one chooses to believe in the crucifixion or not is based entirely on faith alone and not on any concrete evidence whatsoever one way or the other.

One more thing, during the first century, there was no lighting effect yet.