Who is Joseph's Father?

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This came up in RCIA the other night but we didn’t have a clear answer.
In Matthew 1:16 it’s Jacob. In Luke 3:23 it’s Heli. I only know one way a person can have two dads and it’s not sanctioned by the church 😃
If I’m learning the rest of RCIA properly, the right answer is, “ultimately it doesn’t matter” since Jesus makes religion about love of God and love of neighbor. I’m still curious about why the lineage seems to contradict. I’ve also heard skeptics pick at us on this point on more than one occasion and would like a counter-argument.
 
Matthew 1:16 states:

"16And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ." (Douay-Rheims)

And Luke 3:23

"23And Jesus himself was beginning about the age of thirty years; being (as it was supposed) the son of Joseph, who was of Heli, (FIL) who was of Mathat…" (Douay-Rheims)

Hope that helps some. 🙂
 
Befink said:
This came up in RCIA the other night but we didn’t have a clear answer.
In Matthew 1:16 it’s Jacob. In Luke 3:23 it’s Heli. I only know one way a person can have two dads and it’s not sanctioned by the church 😃
If I’m learning the rest of RCIA properly, the right answer is, “ultimately it doesn’t matter” since Jesus makes religion about love of God and love of neighbor. I’m still curious about why the lineage seems to contradict. I’ve also heard skeptics pick at us on this point on more than one occasion and would like a counter-argument.
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Matthew 1:16 says, “And Jacob begot Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.” Matthew is using the word “begot” in the sense of “generated”. This means that Jacob generated Joseph and is, therefore, either the true father or grandfather (if a generation was skipped) of Joseph.

Luke 3: 23 says, “And Jesus himself was beginning about the age of thirty years: being (as it was supposed) the son of Joseph, who was of Heli, who was of Mathat, …” In Luke’s language Joseph “was of Heli,” which is a term that is also used to designate a son-in-law. For Heli was the father of Mary, the spouse of Joseph.

Therefore, Joseph indeed had two fathers, a true father by generation, and a father-in-law by marriage to Mary. Matthew spoke of Joseph’s true ancestor, while Luke spoke of Joseph’s “ancestor-in-law.”

The bible I used is the Douay Bible, and I got this explanation from the Haydock commentary.
 
rom422,
Good explanation, I should have expanded more instead of just the FIL (father-in-law). 👍
 
Well this is pretty interesting. I had never heard an answer to this objection before! Thanks for bringing this topic up Befink!
 
Befink said:
This came up in RCIA the other night but we didn’t have a clear answer.
In Matthew 1:16 it’s Jacob. In Luke 3:23 it’s Heli. I only know one way a person can have two dads and it’s not sanctioned by the church 😃
If I’m learning the rest of RCIA properly, the right answer is, “ultimately it doesn’t matter” since Jesus makes religion about love of God and love of neighbor. I’m still curious about why the lineage seems to contradict. I’ve also heard skeptics pick at us on this point on more than one occasion and would like a counter-argument.
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Scholars are still debating the differences between the genealogies given in Matthew and Luke. Luke who is writing for Gentiles goes right back to Adam, whereas Matthew starts with Abraham, with a Jewish audience in mind.

One possible explanation is that Luke’s account is the Marian line. After all, Jesus did not genetically descend from Jacob, whereas He had a genetic (name removed by moderator)ut from Mary.

This is one author’s attempt - en.allexperts.com/q/Christianity-Christian-Living-1401/descended-david.htm
"In the genealogy in Matthew 1, notice one name, Jeconiah (Jechonias), in verse 11. If Joseph had been Jesus’ father according to the flesh, He could never have occupied the throne, for God’s word barred the way. There had been a curse on this royal line since the days of Jeconiah. In Jeremiah 22:30 we read, ‘Thus says the Lord: write this man down as childless, a man who shall not prosper in his days: for none of his descendants shall prosper, sitting on the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah’. Joseph was in the line of this curse. Hence, if Jesus had been Joseph’s son, He could not have sat on David’s throne.
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But we find another genealogy of Jesus in Luke 3. This is Mary’s line, back to David, through Nathan, not Jeconiah (Luke 3:31)… If Virgin Mary would not have been virgin, the whole genealogy of Jesus in Mat.1 and Lk.3 would have been a farce… but Virgin Mary was indeed a Virgin, and Jesus was not conceived by Joseph but by the Holy Spirit(Lk.1:35, Mat.1:18-25). Joseph was the ‘legal father’ of Jesus, the ‘adopted father’, but not the ‘natural father’."(Excerpted from biblia.com)
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Every man has two genealogies: One through his father and another through his mother… being Mary a virgin, the genealogy of Jesus is very special. Another difference in the geneologies is when it apprears to say that Heli was the father of Joseph. Upon careful examination of that verse (Luke 3:23), notice the use of the commas. A comma can be used to set apart the individual parts of a list or it can be used to set a phrase apart from the rest of the sentence. In this passage, the phrase, “being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph”, is set apart from the rest of the geneology by commas. Therefore the next phrase is referring to the subject of the preceeding phrase, which is Jesus. The indication is that Jesus’ bloodline was through Heli, who, it is supposed, is Jesus’ grandfather on His mother’s side. He then could have a direct connection to David through Mary’s bloodline, and yet maintain the integrity of God’s Word, which prohibited Jeconias’ bloodline to have the Messiah in it."
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Of course this is only his opinion, but I put it here as worthy of consideration.
 
Holly3278 said:
Well this is pretty interesting. I had never heard an answer to this objection before! Thanks for bringing this topic up Befink!
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Not to HiJack the thread, but I notice you are from Evansville. I lived there for 20+ years, just moved to WV 2 years ago. Brings back lots of memories.

Anyways…
 
I can buy that Luke is referring to Mary although it’s still a bit confusing. Thanks everyone!

Now the trick is turning that around next time I take on a skeptic 🙂
 
rom422 said:
Luke 3: 23 says, “And Jesus himself was beginning about the age of thirty years: being (as it was supposed) the son of Joseph, who was of Heli, who was of Mathat, …” In Luke’s language Joseph “was of Heli,” which is a term that is also used to designate a son-in-law. For Heli was the father of Mary, the spouse of Joseph.
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Joachim is the father of Mary.
 
From newadvent.org/cathen/07204b.htm :

Heli (Gr. HELEI — Luke 3:23) is evidently the same name as the preceding (click the link if you are interested in the preceding Heli). In Luke he is said to be the father of Joseph, while in Matthew 1:16, Jacob was Joseph’s father. The most probable explanation of this seeming contradiction is afforded by having recourse to the levirate law among the Jews, which prescribes that when a man dies childless his widow “shall not marry to another; but his brother shall take her, and raise up seed for his brother” (Deuteronomy 25:5). The child, therefore, of the second marriage is legally the child of the first (Deuteronomy 25:6). Heli having died childless, his widow became the wife of his brother Jacob, and Joseph was the offspring of the marriage, by nature the son of Jacob, but legally the son of Heli. It is likely that Matt. gives the natural, and Luke the legal descent. (Cf. Maas, “The Gosp. acc. to S. Matt.”, i, 16.) Lord A. Hervey, Bishop of Bath and Wells, who wrote a learned work on the “Genealogies of Our Lord Jesus Christ”, thinks that Mary was the daughter of Jacob, and Joseph was the son of Jacob’s brother, Heli. Mary and Joseph were therefore first cousins, and both of the house of David. Jacob, the elder, having died without male issue, transmitted his rights and privileges to the male issue of his brother Heli, Joseph, who according to genealogical usage was his descendant.

Works for me.
 
Another possibility, of course, is that one or both, or all of the gospel writers (however many were involved) made a mistake, or someone copying them did.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Joachim is the father of Mary.
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Joachim is just a variation of Heli or Eliachim, just as Yahweh is just a variation of Eli or Elohim.

There is a tradition that dates back to the 2nd century that the parents of Mary were Joachim and Anne. These names, however, are not in the canonical gospels, but in an apocryphal book called The Protoevangelium of James.

See the Catholic Encyclopedia: newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm under the subtitle “Her Parents.”
 
Saburo said:
From newadvent.org/cathen/07204b.htm :

Heli (Gr. HELEI — Luke 3:23) is evidently the same name as the preceding (click the link if you are interested in the preceding Heli). In Luke he is said to be the father of Joseph, while in Matthew 1:16, Jacob was Joseph’s father. The most probable explanation of this seeming contradiction is afforded by having recourse to the levirate law among the Jews, which prescribes that when a man dies childless his widow “shall not marry to another; but his brother shall take her, and raise up seed for his brother” (Deuteronomy 25:5). The child, therefore, of the second marriage is legally the child of the first (Deuteronomy 25:6). Heli having died childless, his widow became the wife of his brother Jacob, and Joseph was the offspring of the marriage, by nature the son of Jacob, but legally the son of Heli. It is likely that Matt. gives the natural, and Luke the legal descent. (Cf. Maas, “The Gosp. acc. to S. Matt.”, i, 16.) Lord A. Hervey, Bishop of Bath and Wells, who wrote a learned work on the “Genealogies of Our Lord Jesus Christ”, thinks that Mary was the daughter of Jacob, and Joseph was the son of Jacob’s brother, Heli. Mary and Joseph were therefore first cousins, and both of the house of David. Jacob, the elder, having died without male issue, transmitted his rights and privileges to the male issue of his brother Heli, Joseph, who according to genealogical usage was his descendant.

Works for me.
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That Heli died childless is only a speculation. The truth is that no one really knows that for sure. It is presented by some commentators as one possible way of reconciling the genealogy of Matthew and Luke. And it works, too. So I will not declare that this opinion is wrong.

Personally, however, I choose to take the opinion indicated in the Haydock Commentary. First, because Luke clearly said that Joseph was “of Heli,” which means that he was “of the family of Heli.” And you are of the family of Heli, not merely when you are related to Heli by blood, but also when you are related to Heli by law. Joseph, being the son-in-law of Heli, was truly “of Heli.” Secondly, because there was that tradition that the parents of Mary were Joachim (a variation of the name Heli) and Anne, which was reported in the Protoevangelium of James. When you consider all available records, including the apocryphal texts, there seems to be more weight in this opinion.

Of course, this is also just my opinion. Future studies and archaeological evidence can prove me wrong.
 
rom422 said:
Matthew 1:16 says, “And Jacob begot Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.” Matthew is using the word “begot” in the sense of “generated”. This means that Jacob generated Joseph and is, therefore, either the true father or grandfather (if a generation was skipped) of Joseph.

Luke 3: 23 says, “And Jesus himself was beginning about the age of thirty years: being (as it was supposed) the son of Joseph, who was of Heli, who was of Mathat, …” In Luke’s language Joseph “was of Heli,” which is a term that is also used to designate a son-in-law
. For Heli was the father of Mary, the spouse of Joseph.
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Except that the father of Mary is Joachim not Heli.

It might be that the Father of Joseph had two names. It happens.
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Hokomai said:
Another possibility, of course, is that one or both, or all of the gospel writers (however many were involved) made a mistake, or someone copying them did.
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Perhaps one or both or all of the gospel writers made a mistake. The “perhaps” is best answered by “perhaps not.”
 
Mary Gail 36, you wrote:
"Except that the father of Mary is Joachim not Heli.

It might be that the Father of Joseph had two names. It happens."

Our posts must have crossed. Please see my post (#12) above. The name Heli is a variation of Joachim. In that post I also gave a link to the Catholic Encyclopedia.
 
rom422 said:
Mary Gail 36, you wrote:
"Except that the father of Mary is Joachim not Heli.

It might be that the Father of Joseph had two names. It happens."

Our posts must have crossed. Please see my post (#12) above. The name Heli is a variation of Joachim. In that post I also gave a link to the Catholic Encyclopedia.
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😃 I read your post after I posted, that’s why I erased mine.
 
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