guano,
Code:
Not everyone is as prejudiced as you are against the man, or blame him for all that you do speak of excommunication as a punishment that one "deserves" for their bad behavior, but this is not the purpose of excommunication at all. It is a last ditch effort of the Church to convince an individual of the gravity of their choices, so that they can return to the fold.
Guano, it appears that you are not at all familiar with the definition of the term āprejudiceā. For your edification, a standard definition of the terms is as follows:
ā1. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions.
2. An adverse judgment or hatred of a particular social groups such as a race or adherents of a religionā
First of all, I grew up with the standard preconceived notion of Martin Luther as being a wonderful Christian Reformer, who was well educated, fair-minded, tolerant, loving to allā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦. You know, the standard āLegendā stuff, just like the latest movie about the man.
My view of the man is that he was a poor Theologian, with the proof of this being that he SHOULD have known that his beliefs were NOT in line with the teachings of the Church. He didnāt. I also believe that he was the most violent Theologian in Christian history, as evidenced by his calls for the execution of Jews, Catholics, Anabaptists, and Peasants. I also believe that Lutherās vicious and immoral āteachingsā on these various matters could NOT have been formulated by a decent Christian Theologian.
You see guano, I have NOT come by my opinions about Luther by preconceived notions or from a lack of information on the man. In fact, my opinions are VERY informed and very much backed up by the evidence that I post, most of which by the way is written by Protestant Scholars.
Do you ever pray for Luther, and those who think and act as he did? This is a loving act.
Actually I have tremendous empathy for Luther (pity actually). What must his interior life have been like that it demanded that he hold himself to be right in the face of SO MANY people who were telling him otherwise? How bad must his terrors have been that he was forced to be that hateful to his opponents and claim that they were liars or the tools of Satan, simply for their disagreement with him?
Code:
I agree, however, I note that you and Spina don't seem to give any credence to statements made about Luther in a positive light. ;)
Speaking for myself only, I will tell you that if the Lutherans (and apparently you) had their way, NONE of these āinconvenient factsā about Luther would EVER reach the surface. Even here on a thread about who Luther was and why he was excommunicated (which BTW I did not start), Lutherans would rather talk about ANYTHING other than Luther.
The āpositive elementsā of Luther have been SO OVERREPORTED throughout the last 500 years that the scale must be balanced.
Guano ā do you believe that people deserve to know the WHOLE truth about Luther or should they ONLY be exposed to the version that Lutherans would prefer that they see. I ask you ā have you EVER seen a Lutheran EVER deal with those āinconvenient factsā about Luther in an open manner or rather do you always see them skirting the truth and spinning like tops, refusing to answer simple questions?
Where should the embarrassing facets of Lutherās ācareerā be discussed except for a thread like this on a Catholic Apologetics site (which again, I did not start). This thread is about who Luther was and why he was excommunicated. Is it not acceptable for me to express my opinions here, especially when, quite frankly, I document and justify what I say FAR MORE than anyone else on this thread (Spina and others accepted).
Code:
Black and white/all or nothing thinking is a hallmark of prejudice and bigotry. Being able to recognize the good in such a person as Luther will prevent some myopia.
There is that word again, which is a false charge and which you actually misuse here. Again, the āgood in Lutherā is about all you would ever hear if you learned your āLuther informationā from only Lutheran sources.
The fact is guano, that there are thousands of people here looking for the truth about whether the Church is what it claims to be or whether they should pursue one of the countless numbers of āother alternativesā. The way I see it, those people deserve to see the truth also, especially on a Catholic Apologetics site. If Lutherans were more forthcoming and more willing to engage in an open and honest dialogue, dialogue on the issues would be possible.
Code:
As had been Luther, who is also portrayed as boorish and ignorant. Sometimes I think his temper did overshadow his good sense, but he was intelligent and had as good an education as Tetzel, and was an avid student who spent hours daily reading and translating scriptures, reading commentaries, and working on his homilies. This is more than can be said about the majority of parish priests in his day, some of whom never even got formal education.
That Luther was better educated than the typical priest of his day is completely beside the point. The point is that Luther revolted against the Church and itās teachings. By what authority did he do so?
