Who is muhammed-please choose

[ronyodish]

Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation.

I was taught that Islam comes from the line of Ishmael, and Muhammed is a descendant of Ishmael.

Miserissima

The Biblical reference is to a great nation, the Arabic nation, not a reference to Islam, a religion.

Arabic is not the same as Islamic. Prior to Islam, there were Christian Arabs, and there continues to be to this day Arabic Christians descended from the older generations of Arabic Christians. There were also pagan/polytheist Arabs. Had it not been for the spreading by the sword of Islam across the Middle East and North Africa, the Arabs of today would have been mostly Christian in my opinion.

The Arabs come from the line of Ishmael, yes, and Mohamed too, but Islam is a religion that Mohamed started which was spread with and among the Arabs like wildfire. So it is not that Islam, a religion, is a descendant from Ishmael, rather, it is the Arabs, a nation, that were the descendants of Ishmael.

God bless,

Rony

 

[FaithofAbraham]

So it is not that Islam, a religion, is a descendant from Ishmael, rather, it is the Arabs, a nation, that were the descendants of Ishmael.

That’s like saying Judaism and Christianity are not descended from Isaac.

 

[Angelos]

That’s like saying Judaism and Christianity are not descended from Isaac.

You still fail to understand what ronyodish means: it is **a nation **that comes from a patriarch, not a religious system! Thus, it is wrong to say Judaism and Christianity descended from Isaac.

Muslims are mostly Arabs, but not all Arabs are Muslim! This is why it is wrong to define Islam as a descendant of Ishmael.

Peace,
Angelos N.B.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Muslims are mostly Arabs, but not all Arabs are Muslim! This is why it is wrong to define Islam as a descendant of Ishmael.

I agree that Islam is not a ‘‘descendant’’ of anything. However I have to address the misconception that most Muslims are Arab. The country with the most Muslims is Indonesia, after that it is India. Neither of them are Arab in ethnicity or culture.

 

[LaMar]

What was decent about the man?

As an outsider, I can appreciate Muhammad for the fact that he worked his whole life to better the society he was born into.

From what information is available publicly, I don’t think he was any more inspired than, say, Herr Ratzinger or Comrade Monson. He seems far more decent than either the current pope (a collaborator with the nazis in his youth) or the president of the LDS church (a collaborator with various communist dictators) though this doesn’t say much in itself.

I suppose it depends upon your perspective. If you grow up thinking you’re “right” and others are “wrong” it’s not unreasonable that you’d deify your own and demonize others, at least until you got some psychological maturity under your belt.

 

[Angelos]

As an outsider, I can appreciate Muhammad for the fact that he worked his whole life to better the society he was born into.

From what information is available publicly, I don’t think he was any more inspired than, say, Herr Ratzinger or Comrade Monson. He seems far more decent than either the current pope (a collaborator with the nazis in his youth) or the president of the LDS church (a collaborator with various communist dictators) though this doesn’t say much in itself.

I suppose it depends upon your perspective. If you grow up thinking you’re “right” and others are “wrong” it’s not unreasonable that you’d deify your own and demonize others, at least until you got some psychological maturity under your belt.

You appreciate Mohammad for the fact that he worked his whole life to better the society he was born into? This cannot be the fact but only your personal judgment since it is possible to replace the verb “better” in your sentence with the verb “worsen”. Although you personally believe that Mohammad did great things for his society, many people from the same society marked his actions as malicious and opportunist. Thus, Mohammad is considered a hero by you whereas he is considered a licentious and evil guy by so many.

The same type of contrastive judgment goes for Hitler, the Pope, ottoman sultans, Martin Luther, Milosevich, Laden, Homayni …

Peace,
Angelos N.B.

 

[AgnosTheist]

What was decent about the man?

He bagan as a decent guy…sincere, respected, loyal, faithful. his corruption only began after he molded islam into a political & military religion.

 

[Booklover]

As an outsider, I can appreciate Muhammad for the fact that he worked his whole life to better the society he was born into.

From what information is available publicly, I don’t think he was any more inspired than, say, Herr Ratzinger or Comrade Monson. He seems far more decent than either the current pope (a collaborator with the nazis in his youth) or the president of the LDS church (a collaborator with various communist dictators) though this doesn’t say much in itself.

I suppose it depends upon your perspective. If you grow up thinking you’re “right” and others are “wrong” it’s not unreasonable that you’d deify your own and demonize others, at least until you got some psychological maturity under your belt.

For you information, the Pope was drafted into the Hitler Youth, he had no say in the matter and did not collaborate with the Nazis as you’re implying!

Vickie

 

[LaMar]

For you information, the Pope was drafted into the Hitler Youth, he had no say in the matter and did not collaborate with the Nazis as you’re implying!

Vickie

Right. And the brigands of the Hijaz tried to “draft” Muhammad into their lousy organizations too. Rather than get his portrait taken in a uniform, or bend over backward to appease them, he resisted. The result was that he led ordinary people into a new era of peace and civilization. Within a couple of hundred years he was knocking at Europe’s door. Europeans, under the church, were at that time living in caves and dying en masse because they had forgotten simple sanitation procedures that were known in Roman times.

None of these people have any claim to divine authority or infallibility in my book, but of the three, Muhammad strikes me as the most decent, by a long mile.

 

[LaMar]

Thus, Mohammad is considered a hero by you whereas he is considered a licentious and evil guy by so many.

I consider Muhammad neither hero nor “evil guy”.

He was a human being who saw problems in his society, and he did his best to correct them.

I respect this.

Best,

LaMar

 

[AgnosTheist]

I consider Muhammad neither hero nor “evil guy”.

He was a human being who saw problems in his society, and he did his best to correct them.

I respect this.

What about when, after exterminating all the males, he enslaved an entire tribe of jewish women and CHILDREN? When he had a nursing mom assassinated for ridiculing him in public. When he ensured that non-believers be brought under Islamic rule.

For me that was sort of like Hitler --a human being who saw problems in his society, and he did his best to correct them.

 

[Booklover]

Muhammad was an opportunistic and cunning narcissist suffering from megalomania who declared himself a prophet, created his alter ego, Allah, and fabricated his “revelations”!

Vickie

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Muhammad was an opportunistic and cunning narcissist suffering from megalomania who declared himself a prophet, created his alter ego, Allah, and fabricated his “revelations”!

Vickie

Are you a psychologist?

 

[LaMar]

What about when, after exterminating all the males, he enslaved an entire tribe of jewish women and CHILDREN? When he had a nursing mom assassinated for ridiculing him in public. When he ensured that non-believers be brought under Islamic rule.

For me that was sort of like Hitler --a human being who saw problems in his society, and he did his best to correct them.

Are you really comparing Muhammad to Adolf Hitler, who killed 6 million Jews in the 20th Century?

Let’s be extra liberal, and suppose Muhammad might have killed 1000 Jews. That’d mean that he would be short 5 million, 999 thousand, when compared with the Roman Catholic chancellor of Germany, Adolf Hitler.

And then we can get into the fact that the current pope was a cog in this whole genocidal machine.

Something tells me you regret making the comparison right about…now.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Are you really comparing Muhammad to Adolf Hitler, who killed 6 million Jews in the 20th Century?

yes i am.

mohammad commanded a couple of thousands and he killed a couple of hundreds.

hitler commanded scores of millions and killed a couple of millions.

by ratio & proportion Im sure its a close call. yes?

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Are you really comparing Muhammad to Adolf Hitler, who killed 6 million Jews in the 20th Century?

Let’s be extra liberal, and suppose Muhammad might have killed 1000 Jews. That’d mean that he would be short 5 million, 999 thousand, when compared with the Roman Catholic chancellor of Germany, Adolf Hitler.

And then we can get into the fact that the current pope was a cog in this whole genocidal machine.

Something tells me you regret making the comparison right about…now.

I don’t think that’s fair to say about Joseph, however the Bible is filled with quite a few atrocities, yet Agnos seems to be either oblivious or unconcerned by this fact

 

[AgnosTheist]

the Bible is filled with quite a few atrocities, yet Agnos seems to be either oblivious or unconcerned by this fact

I have already grilled the Christians here about those issues. Theyre stumped. As usual the final excuse is “God knows best”.

 

[justinthemartyr]

I have already grilled the Christians here about those issues. Theyre stumped. As usual the final excuse is “God knows best”.

Atrocities?

God is the creator of everything, He brought everything into existence, there is no such thing as an atrocity as it pertains to what God does. God does what he pleases.

In the limited human mindset, there is atrocity and natural law and the law of God of which God is not held to. Wow, you sure have smarts, but no real wisdom. that is where you are lacking.

 

[LaMar]

I don’t think that’s fair to say about Joseph, however the Bible is filled with quite a few atrocities, yet Agnos seems to be either oblivious or unconcerned by this fact

I don’t think it’s unfair to criticize the people who claim to be God’s anointed, infallible, and other such stuff. I’m not holier than thou. I have made lots of money and have enjoyed a very good life in the American era of George Bush, all while my country is killing and robbing other peoples. Then again, I’m not claiming to be someone special.

I dislike this garbage wherever it arises. It can be a pope, or a mormon apostle who shakes hands with honecker, or osama, or an American shopkeeper who abuses a woman because she’s dressed the wrong way, or some Israeli settler who shoots at kids with an American rifle. I think it all deserves criticism from regular people who dislike seeing others marginalized, dehumanized, abused and exploited.

 

[AgnosTheist]

God is the creator of everything, He brought everything into existence, there is no such thing as an atrocity as it pertains to what God does. God does what he pleases.

Your opinion would have washed if only there is sufficient evidence that it is really God who inspired the bible. But its just circular reasoning.

I atleast applaud christians & jews for burying those bible examples in the past.