Who is the “god” Allah?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hawkeye916
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
It has everything to do with the topic.
We are talking about Muslim’s and the fact that they worship the same God that Christians and Jews do. That fact that you seem to be the only one using the older spelling, and you hold the opinion that they do not worship the same God speaks volumes.
 
Last edited:
CilladeRoma said:
We are talking about Muslim’s and the fact that they worship the same God that Christians and Jews do.
Click to expand...

Home Page

www.rzim.org www.rzim.org

“Christians worship a Triune God: a Father who loves unconditionally, an incarnate Son who is willing to die for us so that we may be forgiven, and an immanent Holy Spirit who lives in us. This is not what the Muslim God is; it is not who the Muslim God is; and it is not what the Muslim God does. Truly, the Trinity is antithetical to Tawhid, fundamentally incompatible and only similar superficially and semantically. Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God.”
 
Odilon said:
Do Muslims view this “Allah” as we do God? No they don’t. They do not see him as their Father in heaven, but as some sort of controlling being that needs to be appeased. Their “Allah” and our God are not the same.
Click to expand...
Jews have just as many and just as serious misconceptions - they don’t see God as Trinity and they don’t see God as incarnate in the person of Jesus. Yet we never say that their God and ours ate not One and the same.

Further - a real life example I have a deep voice for a female. I have had people who I have spoken to on the phone call my office back and ask to talk to ‘the man I spoke to earlier.’ The fact that they mistake my gender doesn’t for a second change that it was actually me they were speaking to. Regardless if they get my name or any and every other detail about me wrong, it will ALWAYS be one and the same me that they were speaking to.
 
Last edited:
Please see the blog entry by Dessert I posted above, it is a much more detailed analysis of the situation.

I would also point you to paragraph 841 of the catechism. I think we can agree that it is a little more authoritative than the article you posted.
 
That reference in the CCC is too ambiguous to address the fundamentals of the article. As for whatever blog you are suggesting that I look at… I’m really not that interested. I was simply presenting an alternate position. Thanks though.
 
Last edited:
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day

I fail to see anything ambiguous to that.
 
An alternate position that is not supported by the teachings of the Church.
 
Last edited:
Even remote, isolated peoples are capable of acknowledging a creator, or “great spirit,” or whatever have you. That doesn’t mean that they acknowledge the same Nature of that creator or the same characteristics , or the same expectations that He may have for us. Are we then talking about the same concept of the creator? Yes, if that’s the best understanding that they have, they may be included in the “plan of salvation.” What does that mean, though? Suppose a Muslim asks to convert to Christianity? Are we to say, “nahh, your just fine?” Is that paragraph to suggest that both religions posses the fullness of the path to salvation?

That paragraph, imo, simply follows the theme that any religion doing the best that it can, with whatever concept it has of the “creator” is included in the path of salvation, which I don’t dispute. Special reference is given to Islam probably due to our tumultuous history.
 
Last edited:
Of course we wouldn’t, Jesus said He is the way, the truth, the light ( paraphrasing). Islam is a false religion. There seems to be a fear that by acknowledging Muslims worship the same God as we do, we are somehow elevating their religion to the same level as Catholicism. We are not doing so. Now do we do so with the Jews or Protestants.

You are taking a position, but not interested in understanding why your position contradicts the Church’s position. That makes no sense to me.
 
I’m not contradicting the Church teaching, simply citing that it does not elaborate enough. They obviously dont believe in the same God, if they deny Christ as being God… or the Holy Spirit. In fact, they condemn worship thereof. It’s not that complicated.
 
Last edited:
Not a demon. They worship the One God, but they also follow a false prophet, so their understanding of God (and worship) is skewed and full of errors.
 
The only “One,” not the trinitarian “One.” Small detail, I guess. And that’s fine… not trying to disparage them. At the same time, I’m not going to compare apples to oranges.
 
Last edited:
No dispute there… and that, in my opinion, can lead to a much more interesting discussion.
 
Last edited:
Well said, I agree with you. Muhammad has elaborated fully on his “Allah” and such a being is alien to me.
 
LilyM said:
Yet we never say that their God and ours ate not One and the same.
Click to expand...
Because Jesus was Jewish and comes from that line and we believe the OT prophecy of the coming of the Redeemer, so of course the God the Jews speak of, the God Jesus believed in, and the God we believe in are one and the same - all together as one in the Trinity.
 
Last edited:
Odilon said:
40.png
LilyM:
Yet we never say that their God and ours ate not One and the same.
Click to expand...
Because Jesus was Jewish and comes from that line and we believe the OT prophecy of the coming of the Redeemer, so of course the God the Jews speak of, the God Jesus believed in, and the God we believe in are one and the same - all together as one in the Trinity.
Click to expand...
Muslims would say that, through Abraham, they come from the line as the Jews and therefore the same line as Jesus. The God of the Muslims, as with the Jews, is the God of Abraham. So is the Christian God. Muslims acknowledge most of the same patriarchs and great prophets as we do, including Jesus, albeit that they do not believe him to be divine.

The God of the Muslims is not some unrelated ‘Great Spirit’ such as Native Americans or Hindus have worshipped without ever having even heard of Abraham or Christ.
 
So in your opinion, since the Jews do not believe in a trinitarian God, they worship a different God?
 
Is that a trick question? 🤔
tafan2 said:
Jews do not believe in a trinitarian God
Click to expand...
Catholics do, so…

These are just personal musings, on my part, I suppose that it comes down to how one looks at it.

Aristotle, a pagan, believed in the idea of an unmoved mover. St. Thomas Aquinas agreed with this as a characteristic of our Lord. Is it the same God? Again, it depends on how you look at it.
While we may share certain cosmological agreements, we may differ vastly on fundamental metaphysical considerations.

It is my understanding that Gen 1:26 is understood by the Jews as God administering to and delegating creation to His Angels. He creates through/with them. Even if modern Christian scholarship seeks to cast doubt on the trinitarian implications of that particular verse as well, it is still made clear in the first few verses of The Book of John, as well as in Church dogma, that nothing was created without the Word. Creation occurred through and by the Word.

Ignorance of Christ as part of God is one thing, and may result in an incomplete understanding. Rejection is another, and may lead to a different one altogether. Ultimately we are not talking about Judaism but Islam, and islam seems to take it even further. Without having to go further, based on church dogma that the Whole Trinity participated in creation, does Islam really “acknowledge the [same] Creator,” as they condemn believers of Christ (as God), by whom creation occured? Even though Muslims “profess to hold the faith of Abraham,” do they worship the same God, or a alternate image of Him? A few shared characters don’t necessarily add up to the same Being… or do they?

It is also written, “…neither doth any one know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom it shall please the Son to reveal him.” If the Son is rejected, and believers of the Son condemned, what God do those who reject the Son believe in if not the one revealed by the Son?
 
Last edited:
Cor_ad_Cor said:
A simple look at the Catechism answers it:
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims . “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
Click to expand...
Awesome! This confirms that if Judaism is about God, and Christianity about Jesus Christ, then Islam must be about the Holy Spirit!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top