Who is the antichrist

[shannin]

Paris Blues:

Some say it is Ronald McDonald, others say it’s Barney and one guy said it was the computer.

Well I think it’s that old cross-dresser Mickey Mouse.

 

[freesoulhope]

From what i gather from the posts on this thread, am i right to assume that alot of what is written in revelation has already happened? it seems to make sense that most of these things happened before. But many men pretended to be gods or jesus, surley the anti Christ will claim to be “Jesus” as in, people will regognise the anti Christ as the messiah. This serves the purpose of deception, and would make sense considering that some jews regected jesus as the messiah(a Jew) I read somewhere that the people of today that practice judaism, are waiting for a messiah that isnt even God and is just a man And that any man of any generation has the potential to be this person,… is this true? I think i might be in error on that one.

And another thing… Did the jewish people who had regected Christianity, see nero as the messiah?i dont think so since they are still waiting for the messiah. So who is this man that they are waiting for? It doesnt seem like the Christ that died for us. please correct me if there is fault in my reasoning, i love correction!

 

[Eric1975]

Ah yes…thank God for the grace to contemplate Revelation as a predorist. Predorism is basically a degrading term used by Fundamentalist or Evangelical Christians to make the claim that some Catholic+Christians believe that most, if not all of the prophecy spoken of in the Book of Revelation is fulfilled. I lean more towards this position the more that I study. In fact, I will go so far as to say that the ‘beast,’ which is obviously the Caesar Nero, isn’t even the same ‘lawless one’ that Saint speaks of in his Epistles. I think that Saint John not only referred to the busts of the Roman Emperors (and Nero had many), meaning the ‘image’ of the beast, but also to the coinage which apparently had a blasphemous comment inscribed on it referring to Nero as divine. Having this mark (the word actually means image) on the hand or forehead would certainly mean that it occupied an important place in the mind as well as what one did with their hands as in work. Once the Emperors of Rome began ascribing a reference to mortal divinity on their currency, of course it would be looked at as a horrible blasphemy to even use it, thus the early Christian communities were more likely to trade rather than use the corrupt Emperor’s coins (images). The mark of the beast and computer chips eh??? HA! Try the tabloid section at your local grocer for all of that tripe. Another aspect of the antichrist in Revelation is his ability to ‘call fire down from heaven.’ Hmmm, sounds kinda weird and supernatural eh? Well…not exactly to the Germanic barbarians depicted in the opening battle scenes of the movie Gladiator. To them, having hundreds of volleys of flaming arrows and catapults blazing towards you and your home certainly is ‘fire falling from heaven.’ Just not the Godly kind. There are so many more references to the fascinating history of Roman and the early Christians and how Revelation refers to it all. As for the last antichrist…how interesting it would be to find out where all of the different members of the Temple Institute were originally born. Bethsaida? Capernaum? The areas that Our Lord cursed? I lament for the day that a mere mortal man rebuilds that third Temple and tells the whole world that everyone serving him shall be ‘as gods.’ The antichrist is not just a real person, he is also determined to make a mockery of the hierarchical structure that Our Good Lord has blessed us all with. Has anyone hear read any of the works of Josyp Terelya? I wonder if the ‘Institute’ is a subject of his curiosity as well? His writings are great and what a blessing it would be to meet him. May God abundantly bless everyone who reads this post. In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Wonderful feedback!!!

 

[DARichards]

What does the Scripture say about the “AntiChrist”

1John 2:18-23

18
Children, it is the last hour; 9 and just as you heard that the antichrist was coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. Thus we know this is the last hour.
19
They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; 10 if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.
20
But you have the anointing that comes from the holy one, 11 and you all have knowledge.
21
I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth.
22
12 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist.
23
No one who denies the Son has the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well.

1John 4:1-6

1
1 Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2
This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh be longs to God,
3
and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus 2 does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.
4
You belong to God, children, and you have conquered them, for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
5
They belong to the world; accordingly, their teaching belongs to the world, and the world listens to them.
6
We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.

Then we have Revalation 13 in which John discusses the “mark of the beast”

16
It forced all the people, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to be given a stamped image on their right hands or their foreheads,
17
so that no one could buy or sell except one who had the stamped image of the beast’s name or the number that stood for its name.
18
8 Wisdom is needed here; one who understands can calculate the number of the beast, for it is a number that stands for a person. His number is six hundred and sixty-six.

Please give the scriptural references where this person will convince people that he is the Messiah. I see where he will decieve many, but I don’t see where people will see him as the Messiah? Remember that in ancient Rome that unless one took “the mark” of the Roman government by joining their guilds that they were not able to work and therefore they would have no way to make a living.

 

[DARichards]

Eric1975:

Ah yes…thank God for the grace to contemplate Revelation as a predorist. May God abundantly bless everyone who reads this post. In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Wonderful feedback!!!

ERIC1975,

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think the term that you are wanting is “preterist”. This refers to the view that many of the events of Revelation have already occured.

 

[Zahmir]

I’m pretty sure Descartes was the Anti-Christ… hehe I don’t like him very much.

 

[bones_IV]

St. Hildegard “An unchaste woman will concieve an unchaste son. The wicked serpent, who decieved Adam, will influence this child in such a way that nothing good or virtuous will enter into him; nor, under the circumstances will it even be possible for any good to be in him”. (Divinum Operorum, from Trail, Tribulation and Triumph).

From the Life of St. Bridget “Just as children of God are born of a spiritual marriage, so WILL ANTICHRIST SPRING FROM AN ACCURSED WOMAN who will pretend to lead a spiritual life, and from an accursed man, through whose agency, and with God’s permission, the devil will accomplish his ends”, (p. 168, Life and Revelations of St. Bridget)

Sister Nativitas says "Even before he is ten years old he will be more powerful and learned than other men and, through his actions, it will be evident that he possesses greater genius, spirit and skill than other people. The fullness of his powers will first manifest themselves when he reaches the age of 30 years at which time his greatest heroic deeds will begin (quoted from Hartmann’s ‘Life and Revelations of Sister Nativitas’, 1865).

Many saints including “Sts. Irenaeus, Hilary, Ambrose, Augustine, Jerome, John Damascene, and others” say that ‘the Jews will then offer AntiChrist a royal crown after holding public revelations’. He will be a real real liberal and will promote fashionable teachings. He will also hold many honorary degrees and will promote a false ecumenism.

He will be a very specific person “As in Christ dwelt the fullness of the Godhead, so in AntiChrist is the fulness of all wickedness. Not indeed as if his humanity were assumed by the devil into unity of person as the humanity of Christ is by the Son of God, but that the devil by suggestion infuses his wickedness more copiously into him [AntiChrist] than into all others.” (Summa Theologica).

 

[bones_IV]

spauline:

The Navarre Bible quotes JPII as that the modern “false prophet” is materialism.

St. Gregory I, “Before the birth of her child, the mother of AntiChrist will announce the advent of a Messias who will restore great prosperity to mankind” (Morales, St. Gregory the Great, from Trail, Tribulation and Triumph).

“In days of peace that are to come after the desolatin of revolutions and wars – before the end of the world – Christians will become so lax in their religion that they will refuse the sacrament of Confirmation, saying that “it is an unnecessary sacrament”; and when the false prophet, the precursor of AntiChrist comes, all who are not confirmed will apostasize, while those who are confirmed will stand fast in their faith, and only a few will renounce Christ” (The Prophets & Our Times).

 

[DARichards]

bones_IV:

St. Gregory I, “Before the birth of her child, the mother of AntiChrist will announce the advent of a Messias who will restore great prosperity to mankind” (Morales, St. Gregory the Great, from Trail, Tribulation and Triumph).

“In days of peace that are to come after the desolatin of revolutions and wars – before the end of the world – Christians will become so lax in their religion that they will refuse the sacrament of Confirmation, saying that “it is an unnecessary sacrament”; and when the false prophet, the precursor of AntiChrist comes, all who are not confirmed will apostasize, while those who are confirmed will stand fast in their faith, and only a few will renounce Christ” (The Prophets & Our Times).

Bones IV,

My reformed background is going to show in this question and I am new coming into the RCC. So what you are saying is that some of the Doctors of the Church believe that there will be an actual Antichrist?

 

[starrs0]

Yes many mystics, Fathers of the Church and Doctors of the Church all expected the Antichrist to come as a man before the end.

 

[DARichards]

I am assuming though, that as in the Protestant churches that there are many differing opinons on this subject and is not as easily nailed down as some of the other doctrines in the Church

 

[kleary]

freesoulhope:

Is this just imaginitive syboligy at work. or will there really be a false profit. If there is going to be, it would make sense that, Isreal may be fooled by this false christ. Are they still waiting for a soldier like christ who will emerge on the political seen? how will we know that he is the false christ, will we know if we are faithfull?

Israel had already been fooled by not believing in their true messiah. They accepted Caesar as their King and messiah according to Scripture.

Ken

 

[kleary]

gambinosyn:

Well i dont think the Jews are going to be converting to Catholicism anytime soon… Thats probably that jewish persons belief, but every jewish person i know are very devout. Plus in Judaism they do not believ you have to belong to a certian faith to be “saved.” All you have to do is follow the ten commandments. But no i dont think they are going to convert.

Actually there are various denominations of Judaism today. Maybe there is a difference between the orthodox Jews and many others.

Ken

 

[kleary]

freesoulhope:

Did the jewish people who had regected Christianity, see nero as the messiah?

“We have no King but Caesar” John 19:15

Ken

 

[bones_IV]

DARichards:

Bones IV,

My reformed background is going to show in this question and I am new coming into the RCC. So what you are saying is that some of the Doctors of the Church believe that there will be an actual Antichrist?

Yes.

 

[bones_IV]

“We have no King but Caesar” John 19:15

Ken

Tell me if I’m wrong, but its my understanding that they said that Caesar was their king even though they dispised him anyway. Cause many of them were nationalists.

 

[ReformedCatholic]

It is my understanding that the anti-Christ was Nero.

However, the term has also evolved to represent exceptionally evil individuals, like Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, serial killers, etc.- people who embody the exact opposite of what Christ represents.

The concept of the “false messiah” is one we see to this day. Recent ones include David Koresh, that Heaven’s Gate Dude, and L. Ron Hubbard (Scientology)- basically anyone that claims to be Christ re-incarnate or His equivalent.

 

[starrs0]

Now that is just not true Nero was a type of Antichrist but he wasn’t THE Antichrist. Antichrist is a person not a group or a orginization but a single man who will come at the end times and claim to be and be worshipped by many as God and he will lead the final persecution of the Church and will be killed by Christ at his Second Coming Scripture and Tradition is VERY clear on this.

 

[ReformedCatholic]

starrs0:

Now that is just not true Nero was a type of Antichrist but he wasn’t THE Antichrist. Antichrist is a person not a group or a orginization but a single man who will come at the end times and claim to be and be worshipped by many as God and he will lead the final persecution of the Church and will be killed by Christ at his Second Coming Scripture and Tradition is VERY clear on this.

The anti-Christ that John was referring to was Nero.

So Christ is going to kill someone? Doesn’t that fly in the face of everything He stands for? Do you not even question this assertion despite how absurd it sounds? Would he not embrace this guy- or convert him instead? He is all-powerful after all.

I think the myth of one be-all, end-all anti-Christ has evolved over the years and like the myth about the “end of the world” has been used to scare, manipulate, and control people, much like the characterizations of hell over the centuries that have been used to “fill the pews.”

 

[freesoulhope]

ReformedCatholic:

The anti-Christ that John was referring to was Nero.

So Christ is going to kill someone? Doesn’t that fly in the face of everything He stands for? Do you not even question this assertion despite how absurd it sounds? Would he not embrace this guy- or convert him instead? He is all-powerful after all.

I think the myth of one be-all, end-all anti-Christ has evolved over the years and like the myth about the “end of the world” has been used to scare, manipulate, and control people, much like the characterizations of hell over the centuries that have been used to “fill the pews.”

God destroyed evil sinners( people who refuse to give up thier sin, and he uses them as examples. Jesus is the son of the father, jesus is God. God destroyed sodom and gorramer, people died, inculding lots wife. God is not a sinner just becuase he destroys evil doers. What he gives he can take away. wouldnt you agree?