Who is the authority of your church?

[Rightlydivide]

I will simplify it for you Righteousone.
Real real simple.
Rome 120 AD.
The churches, what books were read during church?
Ready…get set…GO!
No opinions. PROOF.

 

[Rightlydivide]

prove that they did hear them read.

That is precisely my point. Rome 120 AD, what was read??
Got any proof?? Anything…going once…

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

That is precisely my point. Rome 120 AD, what was read??
Got any proof?? Anything…going once…

St.Ignatius condemned to die in Rome in 107 ad.Bishop of Antioch. Wrote 7 letters from Asia Minor to his Martyrdom.He echoed the sacraficial language of the Didache. “For there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup to show forth the unity of his blood; one altar, as there is one bishop” (Philadelphians 4)

ST. IGNATIUS WAS THE FIRST TO CALL THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH "CATHOLIC’ (SMYRNAEANS 8)

St.Ignatius followed St. Paul (1Cor.11:30) in warning that those who disdain Holy Communion bring about their own dissolution,both spiritual and physical: “Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death” (Smyrneans 7) “the medicine of immortality and the antidote to prevent us from dying” (Ephesians 20)

St. Igantius was a disciple of the apostle John. “unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you… He who eats this bread will live forever” (John 6:53, 58)

Smyrneans 6-8 …They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins… It is fitting therefore, that you should keep aloof from such persons, and not speak of them either in private or in public, but give heed to the prophets, and above all to the Gospel,…See that you follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ follows the Father. Follow the priests as you would follow the apostles. And reverence the deacons as you would reverence the command of God…Just as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the CATHOLIC Church…

Philadelphians 3-4 … For all those who belong to God and to Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And all those who repent and return to the unity of the Church shall also belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ…Do not be decieved, my brethren. If anyone follows a MAN who makes a schism in the Church, he shall not inherit the kingdom of God. If anyone walks according to a strange opinion, he disagrees with the passion of Christ…

St. Igatius, (a quote from his martyr) “I am the wheat of God. Let me be ground by the teeth of the wild beasts, that I may be found the pure bread of Christ” (Romans 4)

If you need more just say so… there’s plenty 1st and 2nd century Catholic saints to go around, of what they preached and read…

Knock and the door will be opened, love in Christ

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

In ‘unprogrammed’ Meetings, it is the Meeting as a whole. No one person has “authority” to make deciscions that affect the whole…any dispute or question on polity is reached through concensus…the Presiding Clerk mediates and states the “sense of the Meeting”…if some diagree that the “sense of the Meeting” is as the Clerk stated, the discerning process continues.

Gee, Publisher, sounds like an ecumenical council (like Vatican II) or a synod of Catholic Bishops or Church council of the early centuries.

That Presiding Clerk stuff sounds like how the Holy Spirit embues our Church’s councils and the first among equals, i.e. the Holy Father, leads those successors to the Apostles to a consensus or vote.

You Society guys must like the Catholic model! (If not our hierarchy, then probably one of our mendicant or religious, like the Benedictines or Carmelites)

Robert

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

I will simplify it for you Righteousone.

Real real simple.
Rome 120 AD.
The churches, what books were read during church?
Ready…get set…GO!
No opinions. PROOF.

Gosh, brother, you really do not have a CLUE as to early Church history, do you?

Go on line and find a translation of the Didache (that’s “Teaching” in Greek). This is an early copy of a Catholic liturgical work. It tells what the Church believed, how this was taught (reading of the scrolls and codices) and how we celebrated the Divine Liturgy.

There are some excellent non-Catholic sources (Oxford University Press) and non-Catholic authors who support the HISTORICAL precedent of readings OT scrolls (we Catholics have always followed our Jewish roots) during the liturgy. You will also discover the addition of letters (such as St Pauls’ corpus, St Clement, St Timothy, etc) and then the reading from the 4 Gospels and Acts of St Luke.

Amazing. All that Tradition still going on every day in most Catholic (Western and Eastern) Churches.

Now, as to YOUR church and its INFALLIBLE leader…

Robert

 

[nonjuror]

I am an Anglican Catholic and a member of the ACC. Anglicanism. we consider to be some two thousand years old. Our magisterium, or Authority, is considered to rest in the Holy Catholic Church and its Bishops.The basis of the Catholic faith is considered to be the

Revelation of Christ ,once delivered to the Saints, as recorded in Scripture and interpreted and explained by the Holy Fathers in Council, (Seven Ecumenical Councils,) as well as the Consensus of the Greek Fathers of the First four Centuries.

We have no other faith or order than that held and taught by the One, True, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. This we consider to be the Body of Christ.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Gosh, brother, you really do not have a CLUE as to early Church history, do you?

Go on line and find a translation of the Didache (that’s “Teaching” in Greek). This is an early copy of a Catholic liturgical work. It tells what the Church believed, how this was taught (reading of the scrolls and codices) and how we celebrated the Divine Liturgy.

 

[Rightlydivide]

St.Ignatius condemned to die in Rome in 107 ad.Bishop of Antioch. Wrote 7 letters from Asia Minor to his Martyrdom.He echoed the sacraficial language of the Didache. “For there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup to show forth the unity of his blood; one altar, as there is one bishop” (Philadelphians 4)

ST. IGNATIUS WAS THE FIRST TO CALL THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH "CATHOLIC’ (SMYRNAEANS 8)

St.Ignatius followed St. Paul (1Cor.11:30) in warning that those who disdain Holy Communion bring about their own dissolution,both spiritual and physical: “Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death” (Smyrneans 7) “the medicine of immortality and the antidote to prevent us from dying” (Ephesians 20)

St. Igantius was a disciple of the apostle John. “unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you… He who eats this bread will live forever” (John 6:53, 58)

Smyrneans 6-8 …They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins… It is fitting therefore, that you should keep aloof from such persons, and not speak of them either in private or in public, but give heed to the prophets, and above all to the Gospel,…See that you follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ follows the Father. Follow the priests as you would follow the apostles. And reverence the deacons as you would reverence the command of God…Just as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the CATHOLIC Church…

Philadelphians 3-4 … For all those who belong to God and to Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And all those who repent and return to the unity of the Church shall also belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ…Do not be decieved, my brethren. If anyone follows a MAN who makes a schism in the Church, he shall not inherit the kingdom of God. If anyone walks according to a strange opinion, he disagrees with the passion of Christ…

St. Igatius, (a quote from his martyr) “I am the wheat of God. Let me be ground by the teeth of the wild beasts, that I may be found the pure bread of Christ” (Romans 4)

If you need more just say so… there’s plenty 1st and 2nd century Catholic saints to go around, of what they preached and read…

Knock and the door will be opened, love in Christ

So you are saying that Ignatius was read in churches? Proof please.
Interpolations aside for the moment, provice your proof

 

[MrS]

Probably the same thing you do when your priest says something you disagree with I would think…I would email him or talk to him and we would have a discussion about it.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Rightlydivide;3240645:

Then what…

what is HIS authority, and where does he claim he has any authority at all.

We all have the authority to proclaim that the grace of God MrS

Tts 2:11 ¶ For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tts 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Tts 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Tts 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Tts 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority.

Let no man despise thee.
Of course God has put boundaires on the authority

1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

And then of course we have the role of bishop(which the Bible never extends beyond a local congregation), elder, and deacon

 

[Rightlydivide]

Rightlydivide;3240645:

Then what…

what is HIS authority, and where does he claim he has any authority at all.

as far as the then what, sometimes he gets smart and realizes I am right and sometimes he does not…

 

[mercygate]

The Gospels and Epistles of the NT were read aloud to the congregations of Christians that met on the first day of the week for Holy Mass (just as they are still among ourselves), one Gospel here, another there; One Epistle of St. Paul in one place, another in another, all scattered about in various parts of the world where there were bodies of Christians. And the next question that naturally occurs to us is, when were these seperate works gathered together so as to form a volume, and added to the OT to make up what we now call a bible? Well, they were not collected for the best part of 300 years.
So that here again I am afraid is a hard nut for Protestants to crack…that though we admit that the seperate works composing the NT were now in existence, yet they were for centuries not to be found altogether in one volume, were not obtainable by multitudes of Christians, and even were altogether unknown to many different parts of the world.
How then, could they possibly form a guide to Heaven and the chart of salvation for those who have never seen or read about them??? In 397, through the influence of St. Augustine, settled the collection of NT Scriptures as we Catholics have them now.

. . . and even when the list was ratified in 397, there was still a lot of dispute about what should/should not be on the list. The Shepherd of Hermas and the Didache were strong contenders. Revelation, 2 Peter, Hebrews, James, Jude & 2 & 3 John were much challenged. And authorship was also in question. I recall seeing a quote from St Jerome (I think), who said, “God only knows who wrote the Epistle to the Hebrews.”

 

[MrS]

as far as the then what, sometimes he gets smart and realizes I am right and sometimes he does not…

Sitting here having a second cup of coffee and watching the snow…
this last post of yours almost made it necessary to get another cup (almost spilled the one I had, laughing)

Not because it is funny… but because it appears to be so darn honest.

I suppose you could have said …"…sometimes he gets smart and realizes I am right, and sometimes he does not get smart and realize I am right…"

Your honesty in declaring your level of competence is fine… we all do it at some time or another. Thankfully I understand that on some things you might be right. On some things your “pastor(?)” might be right.

But regardless… you and he/she don’t have any divine given authority to declare yourself right.

The Catholic apologist does not either. Instead a Catholic shares, defends, and explains… “…go forth and teach…” not go forth and invent.

Whether you see the Truth is not our job. That is God’s in His own time.

For now, I would suggest that if you think you have faith, then simply ask for more of it.

oh well… One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism is not adhered to by all, is it?

.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Sitting here having a second cup of coffee and watching the snow…
this last post of yours almost made it necessary to get another cup (almost spilled the one I had, laughing)

Not because it is funny… but because it appears to be so darn honest.

I suppose you could have said …"…sometimes he gets smart and realizes I am right, and sometimes he does not get smart and realize I am right…"

Your honesty in declaring your level of competence is fine… we all do it at some time or another. Thankfully I understand that on some things you might be right. On some things your “pastor(?)” might be right.

But regardless… you and he/she don’t have any divine given authority to declare yourself right.

The Catholic apologist does not either. Instead a Catholic shares, defends, and explains… “…go forth and teach…” not go forth and invent.

Whether you see the Truth is not our job. That is God’s in His own time.

For now, I would suggest that if you think you have faith, then simply ask for more of it.

oh well… One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism is not adhered to by all, is it?

.

Well said,
I owe you a cup then…
have a good day

 

[Jubilatae]

Jesus Christ:

**He called Peter name meaning Rock, and then He said,
“On this Rock I will build my church”.

Peter was the 1st Pope, therefore Jesus is the head of the Catholic Church**

Bless:

 

[jmcrae]

I am an Anglican Catholic and a member of the ACC. Anglicanism. we consider to be some two thousand years old. Our magisterium, or Authority, is considered to rest in the Holy Catholic Church and its Bishops.The basis of the Catholic faith is considered to be the Revelation of Christ ,once delivered to the Saints, as recorded in Scripture and interpreted and explained by the Holy Fathers in Council, (Seven Ecumenical Councils,) as well as the Consensus of the Greek Fathers of the First four Centuries.

We have no other faith or order than that held and taught by the One, True, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. This we consider to be the Body of Christ.

Since Anglicanism is essentially English, and has the Queen (a secular national ruler) as its head, how can it be considered “Catholic” (universal)?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

So you are saying that Ignatius was read in churches? Proof please.
Interpolations aside for the moment, provice your proof

We are discussing Who is the authority of your church?, your proof has been provided, of the fact that St. Ignatius letters and teachings were taught to the unbaptised and baptised Christians, as well as many other bishops in a authority of the only Catholic Christian Church to exist from then to today without broken succession of Peter our Pope and bishops. There is no short answer for the many proof’s you ask for off topic although in time if your open to Christ’s teachings you will find many of them here, so I would recommend pick up a Catechism of the Catholic Church there you will find what your wanting proof for on many topics, of Christianity.

So do you have proof of your Church authority dating back to the first century, 2nd, 3rd-16th centuries?.If so please provide your proof, of who, and when and a written document by your church authority emphasizing their authority to the Christian Church.

I answered your proof, please provide this posted question the courtesy by providing your answer for the exception of Jesus authority.

ready and willing to learn more about your faith

 

[Rightlydivide]

We are discussing Who is the authority of your church?,

Jesus Christ

your proof has been provided, of the fact that St. Ignatius letters and teachings were taught to the unbaptised and baptised Christians, as well as many other bishops in a authority of the only Catholic Christian Church to exist from then to today without broken succession of Peter our Pope and bishops. There is no short answer for the many proof’s you ask for off topic although in time if your open to Christ’s teachings you will find many of them here, so I would recommend pick up a Catechism of the Catholic Church there you will find what your wanting proof for on many topics, of Christianity.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

**Oh…you mean the document that says baptism by immersion is the form of baptism unless there is no water for it, **

you mean the document that says that bishops and presbyters are chosen by the congregation, you mean the one that does not contain anything about transubstantiation but describes it as a meal, is that the one you mean

Rightlydivide:

Why don’t you continue the reference to baptism?

Or how about explaining how a Church which would grow by leaps and bounds in the early centuries (AD) would have to be organized to ensure proper Teaching (as is referenced in the Didache)?

Here’s an easy one: why would one have to be shrived (confessed and forgiven by the priests (presbytoi) or bishops (espiscopoi) AS PER JESUS’ INSTRUCTION before receiving the Eucharist?

I mean, to you, it’s only a toast of sorts, like Hey! let’s raise a bock beer to ol’ Luther!

Quit being so disingenuous, rightlydivide, it’s unbecoming to someone who claims to be searching for the Truth.

Robert

Oh, read the Didache and quit proof-texting it like you’ve done to Scripture.

 

[Rightlydivide]

What WERE you saying?