Who is the authority of your church?

[Henry_Cornejo]

If Pope Benedict were able to satisfy our beliefs in Theology and Tradition I have no doubt that our Bishops would come to some accomodation with the Roman Church. We are not however, members of the TAC. We have standards born out of the distillation of two thousand years of Catholic belief and practice. We acknowledge the Bishop of (Elder,) Rome as the Patriarch of the West.

I am realy amazed in your post that the Anglican Church do recognize the Pope. Thanks for the enlightenment. Please bear with me coz I got few questions.

Setting aside the theology issues. Do you follow the circular form the Pope or the official Church pronouncements such as abortion, terrorism, capitalism, social justice and other secular issues? Or do Anglican Church reevaluate the pronouncement and do necessary modification before giving it to her members?

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Henry;

I believe ‘Anglican Catholics’ are those who have left union with Canterbury but are afraid of that final, inevitable step back home to union with Rome.

Most of the parishes listed in the US make reference to “in line with the ancient Church of England” I guess the 1500s is ancient to some people!

Many other Anglican/Episcopal parishes have come home to Rome.

Google St Mary of Wellsingham in Houston, Texas for an example. There are also former A/E parished in San Antonio and Dallas.

They keep their Rite and are known as Anglican Use.

But they are only “Catholic” in getting and in keeping close to the teachings and Traditions of Rome.

Robert

 

[MrS]

If** Pope Benedict were able to satisfy our beliefs in Theology and Tradition** I have no doubt that our Bishops would come to some accomodation with the Roman Church. We are not however, members of the TAC. We have standards born out of the distillation of two thousand years of Catholic belief and practice. We acknowledge the Bishop of (Elder,) Rome as the Patriarch of the West.

Thanks for the honesty… hence the crux of the problem.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

For nondenominational Christians, it is the pastor of choice, and the ‘worship’ of choice, and the ‘teaching’ of choice.

Robert

 

[Linda_Marie]

For those who answered “Jesus Christ”, just how does that work?

If you have a dispute about something, does Jesus Himself speak to you and tell you who is right? Do you get a Voice from on high that says, “Listen to Joe Blogs, he has it right.”?

 

[Elric]

For those who answered “Jesus Christ”, just how does that work?

If you have a dispute about something, does Jesus Himself speak to you and tell you who is right? Do you get a Voice from on high that says, “Listen to Joe Blogs, he has it right.”?

I dont know if it was intentional or not, but I did find this post to be a bit “rude”. To me it comes accross as being somewhat disrespectful of others beliefs and a tad condescending.

I could be wrong, but I am only expressing my opinion.

To try and answer your question, I can only speak for myself and not everyone else, it depends on the dispute. Generally I seek advise from others, pray, try to see things in a non-objective way (as well as from other parties point of view) and refer to the bible.

I think that it is better to look for the right solution rather than the solution that makes you right.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

.

Generally I seek advise from others, pray, try to see things in a non-objective way (as well as from other parties point of view) and refer to the bible.

 

[Elric]

Elric;3248077:

.

Elric;

Do you mean in

an objective (non-subjective) way??

Yeah thats the one, dont know why I wrote it the other way.

And the question is not rude, it just points out that everyone thinks the Bible speaks to them personally, like a Ouija Board, you know, open the book and see where your finger lands.

Now I didnt say the question was rude, I said that I felt the post was rude. It was the way that was presented rather than the question asked.

(a lot of people do this and still think fortune casting is sinful!)

Jesus is not running individual ‘churches.’ If he is, then let’s see the Scriptural quotation on that one!

Robert

I didnt say that he was running individual “churches” (although that can depend on your interperation of “church”).

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Elric;

“my own religion” is what the problem may be. When non-Catholics troll these threads seeking to save some poor benighted soul from the Whore of Babylon, they usually claim “Jesus Christ” as the founder/authority of their ‘church.’

And if ‘church’ or ekklesia or assembly or ‘worship center’ is the stumbling block for you, then I cannot help you.

Watch out, your quoted post, above, is similar to “it depends on what the definition of ‘is’ is”

Robert

 

[Elric]

Elric;

 

[Linda_Marie]

I dont know if it was intentional or not, but I did find this post to be a bit “rude”. To me it comes accross as being somewhat disrespectful of others beliefs and a tad condescending.

I could be wrong, but I am only expressing my opinion.

To try and answer your question, I can only speak for myself and not everyone else, it depends on the dispute. Generally I seek advise from others, pray, try to see things in a non-objective way (as well as from other parties point of view) and refer to the bible.

I think that it is better to look for the right solution rather than the solution that makes you right.

It was not meant to be rude. I personally felt that to answer “Jesus Christ is my authority” when the OP specifically asked not to was rude and condescending.

While I believe that God does speak to us, we must be very careful what we listen to. If what we hear or if what we interpret from what we read in Scripture differs from what has been taught by the Apostles and their successors throughout the centuries, the source is probably not God. Remember that the devil prowls the world in search of souls to devour. This is where Authority comes in.

I genuinely want to know how those who say they have no earthly authority decide doctrine, say what Communion is or if you even have it at all, for instance. Catholics say it is truly the Body and Blood of Christ, others say it is merely symbolic. How do you determine the Truth? This is very important. Your immortal soul depends upon it.

Who determines what is taught to your children at Sunday School? Where does your doctrinal statement come from, who says that it is the Truth and by what authority?

What it boils down to, for me, is that if Jesus is not speaking to you directly, then you must be relying on the personal interpretation of people in your church, either the founder, your pastor, the whole congregation, a committee, or yourself - an earthly authority whether you admit it or not.

 

[MrS]

What it boils down to, for me, is that if Jesus is not speaking to you directly, then you must be relying on the personal interpretation of people in your church, either the founder, your pastor, the whole congregation, a committee, or yourself - an earthly authority whether you admit it or not.

And no earthly authority outside the Catholic Church can trace that authority back to the source of all authority…Jesus the Christ.

Being a Catholic is perhaps one of the most difficult things to do. We are given so many graces, the sacraments, the very Real Presence of Jesus Himself. And then we have to try and use our simple humanity to accept it all.

Perhaps it would be easier to have my own religion so I could make it simple, make it easy, make it “mine”… but God forbid that that would ever happen to me. As a Catholic I am the luckiest man on the face of the earth.

It may not always be easy, but it sure is rewarding.

.

 

[nonjuror]

So if Benedict XVI is able to reconcile your church into the Catholic Church, and requirements expected of your church are met in full… would you submit, and would you make the changes (theological, disciplinary, etc), or would you reject the True Church founded by Jesus Christ… which by the way does NOT come UNDER the rule of law.

Natural Law stems from the “rule” of God.

.

When speaking about the “True Church,” you tell me that it,does NOT come UNDER the rule of law.
Well, you know better than I and I’m loath to argue with you, apart from anything else I’m a guest. How-and-ever, 5 or 6 yrs ago the parish priest at a local Roman Church was prosecuted in the courts and,if I remember aright went to jail.
How do you account for that business then?

 

[nonjuror]

I am realy amazed in your post that the Anglican Church do recognize the Pope. Thanks for the enlightenment. Please bear with me coz I got few questions.

Setting aside the theology issues. Do you follow the circular form the Pope or the official Church pronouncements such as abortion, terrorism, capitalism, social justice and other secular issues? Or do Anglican Church reevaluate the pronouncement and do necessary modification before giving it to her members?

Friend,

You misunderstand me. As Anglican Catholics we follow the teachings of Revelation,Scripture and Councils.Ecumenical Councils are led or guided by The Holy Ghost and what they teach is the Faith. The Councils gave the Bishop of Rome (Elder Rome,) the title of Patriarch of the West and as such we honour that gift.

 

[mercygate]

When speaking about the “True Church,” you tell me that it,does NOT come UNDER the rule of law.
Well, you know better than I and I’m loath to argue with you, apart from anything else I’m a guest. How-and-ever, 5 or 6 yrs ago the parish priest at a local Roman Church was prosecuted in the courts and,if I remember aright went to jail.
How do you account for that business then?

Was that priest prosecuted in the civil courts for heresy?

 

[nonjuror]

Was that priest prosecuted in the civil courts for heresy?

Not that I know of.

 

[mercygate]

Not that I know of.

So what was your point? In the United States (is that where you are), the civil law holds jurisdiction in civil matters, even regarding clergy. In Europe in other ages, this was not always so.

 

[Elric]

It was not meant to be rude.

As I stated, I am only expressing my opinion.

I personally felt that to answer “Jesus Christ is my authority” when the OP specifically asked not to was rude and condescending.

I think that you are going to have to explain why you felt that was rude and condescending.

Its obvious that the OP knew that some people would answer with Jesus Christ, which to them isnt an invalid answer. By sating that you cant answer with Jesus Christ, they are leaving people unable to answer the question. I really dont think that the limitation should have been there in the first place.

While I believe that God does speak to us, we must be very careful what we listen to. If what we hear or if what we interpret from what we read in Scripture differs from what has been taught by the Apostles and their successors throughout the centuries, the source is probably not God. Remember that the devil prowls the world in search of souls to devour. This is where Authority comes in.

Well for these same reasons you have to be careful when listening to “authority”

I genuinely want to know how those who say they have no earthly authority decide doctrine, say what Communion is or if you even have it at all, for instance. Catholics say it is truly the Body and Blood of Christ, others say it is merely symbolic. How do you determine the Truth? This is very important. Your immortal soul depends upon it.

I told you how I resolve disputes.

Who determines what is taught to your children at Sunday School? Where does your doctrinal statement come from, who says that it is the Truth and by what authority?

I think that parents should decide what is taught to their children at sunday school.

What it boils down to, for me, is that if Jesus is not speaking to you directly, then you must be relying on the personal interpretation of people in your church, either the founder, your pastor, the whole congregation, a committee, or yourself - an earthly authority whether you admit it or not.

I think that you are twisting the term “authority”.

Who is the authority of your church, well the ultimate answer is God is that authority. Who has authority over your faith/choices, well that would be yourself as you are responsible for your own actions.

Asking questions and seeking advice is not granting authority to anyone, it is getting data to make a more informed choice. You are not acting with authority by deciding for yourself as it only applies to you and you should be open to further (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[MrS]

When speaking about the “True Church,” you tell me that it,does NOT come UNDER the rule of law.
Well, you know better than I and I’m loath to argue with you, apart from anything else I’m a guest. How-and-ever, 5 or 6 yrs ago the parish priest at a local Roman Church was prosecuted in the courts and,if I remember aright went to jail.
How do you account for that business then?

The Church better start paying taxes… rule of law

The Church better except any and all into the priesthood… rule of law

The Church better start holding open elections for bishops… rule of law.

Get real… The Church is perfect. Those in it are not. For their civil transgressions, they will answer to local law.

Or perhaps you are hinting that that priest, having been found guilty and jailed, now has nothing to fear at his individual judgement. I can hear it now… “Sorry Jesus, I am subject to Caesar…”

 

[jmcrae]

As I stated, I am only expressing my opinion.

I think that you are going to have to explain why you felt that was rude and condescending.

Its obvious that the OP knew that some people would answer with Jesus Christ, which to them isnt an invalid answer. By sating that you cant answer with Jesus Christ, they are leaving people unable to answer the question. I really dont think that the limitation should have been there in the first place.

Okay, so these people receive Locutions (voices in their heads, visions, etc.) directly from Christ.

What happens when you have a dispute with your fellow churchman, and no voice comes into your head to tell you how to resolve the problem? Or what if the voice in your head tells you to commit a sin? Or what if the voice in the other person’s head tells him something different than what the voice told you?

I think that parents should decide what is taught to their children at sunday school.

So, they tell Jesus what they want taught in the Sunday School, and then Jesus tells the Sunday School teacher what to teach, via Locutions (voices in her head)? Or how does that work?

(If the parents are telling the Sunday School teacher what they want to have taught in her class, why should she have to listen to them, if Jesus is her only authority? Why can’t she just decide on her own that Jesus wants her to teach something else? And then be all surprised when the parents fire her … )