Who is the bride?

[deb1]

So you’re claiming you can visibly see Christ?

Jesus, as you know, was incarnate and here on earth for all to see. Today we get the opportunity to touch him every Mass. We have our Savior physically present with us.

I am so glad that I am Catholic.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Catechism of the Catholic Church parapgraphs 836-838:

Who belongs to the Catholic Church?

“All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation.”

“Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who—by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion—are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’”

“The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.” Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.” With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound “that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist.” Source: usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p3.htm

Salvation:
Cathecism of the Catholic Church 846-848:

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

**This affirmation is not **aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.

“Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.” Source: usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p3.htm

 

[Mommyof02green]

“However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation]
and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

"Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."

Also one last thing from the CCC;

“All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation.”

Source for both quotes: usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p3.htm

 

[thistle]

And the CCC restricts it to only those “Catholic” churches that are in communion with the Roman See? Correct? In general, then, the Bride is the “Roman Catholic” church. Hence, no “churches” outside communion with the Roman See can honestly be considered part of the “Bride of Christ.” Correct?

Now, it is the “Bride” which has made herself ready in Rev. 19:7 in preparation for the “marriage of the Lamb” and the subsequent “marriage supper” of the Lamb (vs. 9). According to the passage, these take place just prior to and at the 2nd Advent of Christ.

So by your definition, NONE of the “30,000 plus protestants” or the Eastern Orthodox, or any others not under the jurisdiction of the Roman See, can be included in Rev. 19.

So therefore, if you were honest in your definition, unless one converts to Roman Catholicism he/she is not, and cannot be, part of the Bride of Christ - bottom line: not saved. Right?

We are not the Roman Catholic Church. We are the Catholic Church. The seat of the Pope is in Rome but there are 23 Churches which are obedient to Rome. The Roman Church is only one of them.

 

[Mommyof02green]

We are not the Roman Catholic Church. We are the Catholic Church. The seat of the Pope is in Rome but there are 23 Churches which are obedient to Rome. The Roman Church is only one of them.

Catholic Update, has a good article regarding “Eastern Rite” Catholics and “Latin Rite” Catholics.

“Latin Rite” Catholics are more commonly known as: Roman Catholic.

Both the Eastern Rite and the Latin Rite **together **make up the CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Has anybody noted that our Catechism is called: “The Catechism of the Catholic Church”.

To read the Catholic Update article: americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac0106.asp

There is also this article from Catholic Update:
americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac0100.asp

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

However, none on here actually stated that the “Bride” is the Catholic church. How is it that bit of info. was left out?

Hi apophasis,

Who cares whether or not the “Bride” is the Catholic Church? It is irrelavent to this thread.

If you need to know whether or not the Catholic Church is the One True Church, then perhaps a new thread would be of benefit.

 

[apophasis]

We are not the Roman Catholic Church. We are the Catholic Church. The seat of the Pope is in Rome but there are 23 Churches which are obedient to Rome. The Roman Church is only one of them.

You quoted my post. Did you not see that I said,

In general, then, the Bride is the “Roman Catholic” church. Hence, no “churches” outside communion with the Roman See can honestly be considered part of the “Bride of Christ.” Correct?

Now when you say “the Church,” you actually mean only those in communion with the Roman See. So, technically, they’re “Roman” catholic.

But you never addressed the logic of my post. So am I to assume you agree with it?

 

[Sean_Boyle]

And the CCC restricts it to only those “Catholic” churches that are in communion with the Roman See? Correct? In general, then, the Bride is the “Roman Catholic” church. Hence, no “churches” outside communion with the Roman See can honestly be considered part of the “Bride of Christ.” Correct?

Now, it is the “Bride” which has made herself ready in Rev. 19:7 in preparation for the “marriage of the Lamb” and the subsequent “marriage supper” of the Lamb (vs. 9). According to the passage, these take place just prior to and at the 2nd Advent of Christ.

So by your definition, NONE of the “30,000 plus protestants” or the Eastern Orthodox, or any others not under the jurisdiction of the Roman See, can be included in Rev. 19.

So therefore, if you were honest in your definition, unless one converts to Roman Catholicism he/she is not, and cannot be, part of the Bride of Christ - bottom line: not saved. Right?

Please set aside your bias towards the Church. You have been taught many, many things about the Church that are simply not true. Sure it will probably be hard for you to do, but at least then maybe you can better understand the answers being given to you regarding the Church.

 

[apophasis]

Mommyof02green:

Both the Eastern Rite and the Latin Rite **together **make up the CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Yes, and that leaves out Eastern/Russian Orthodox and all Protestants. It does not include ANY who are not in communion with the ROMAN See. So if you say “the Bride” is “the Church,” who do you mean “the Bride” to be? Both Eastern and Latin “Rite,” including the Eastern Orthodox and Protestants? Do ALL of these make up “the Bride of Christ” mentioned in Rev. 19? Or just those in communion with the ROMAN See?

 

[Mommyof02green]

You quoted my post. Did you not see that I said, Now when you say “the Church,” you actually mean only those in communion with the Roman See. So, technically, they’re “Roman” catholic.

But you never addressed the logic of my post. So am I to assume you agree with it?

Apophasis-

PLEASE READ POST # 22 and # 23

PLEASE CONSIDER READING THEM TWICE:Once for the head and Once for the heart!!!

God Bless

 

[Mommyof02green]

Yes, and that leaves out Eastern/Russian Orthodox and all Protestants. It does not include ANY who are not in communion with the ROMAN See. So if you say “the Bride” is “the Church,” who do you mean “the Bride” to be? Both Eastern and Latin “Rite,” including the Eastern Orthodox and Protestants? Do ALL of these make up “the Bride of Christ” mentioned in Rev. 19? Or just those in communion with the ROMAN See?

Again read post #22 and #23!

Read them twice: once for the head and once for the heart!

May God bless you, apophasis, my brother/sister in Christ

 

[apophasis]

But when someone is Baptized in the Trinitarian formula with water, they are a part of the Church. They may not like to think that, but they are, even if it is imperfectly.

So then are you saying that if I’m baptized in the Trinitarian formula I’m automatically part of the “Bride of Christ?” Even if I belong to one of the so-called “30,000 Protestant plus” denominations?

 

[Mommyof02green]

So then are you saying that if I’m baptized in the Trinitarian formula I’m automatically part of the “Bride of Christ?” Even if I belong to one of the so-called “30,000 Protestant plus” denominations?

CCC paragraph 818: …All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."

CCC paragraph 819: “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church:…Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

CCC paragraph 838: …Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.”…

properly baptized means a baptism with water and the words “I baptize you in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

 

[apophasis]

Again read post #22 and #23!

Read them twice: once for the head and once for the heart!

May God bless you, apophasis, my brother/sister in Christ

I have read it, dear mommy, and it states nothing about the “Bride of Christ.” I’m trying my darndest to get a straight answer out of you people. Who/what is the “Bride” who has made herself ready in Rev. 19? Please be specific.

But in regards to your post:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

You must admit this is all quite ambiguous. What would “through no fault of their own” even mean? A Prostestant or Eastern Orthodox in a comatose state?

Nevertheless, my questions are not regarding the technicalities of “salvation” presented by your church, but who exactly is the Bride who made herself ready in Rev. 19?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi,

Ok so I have been baptized as a baby in the episcopal church ,which believes in the Trinity. I accepted Christ into my heart at age 30 in a baptist church and I know worship God at a non-denom church. I do know about the CC and their doctrines but I am still not catholic.

Would I be considered part of the Bride?

 

[NotWorthy]

I have read it, dear mommy, and it states nothing about the “Bride of Christ.” I’m trying my darndest to get a straight answer out of you people. Who/what is the “Bride” who has made herself ready in Rev. 19? Please be specific.

But in regards to your post:You must admit this is all quite ambiguous. What would “through no fault of their own” even mean? A Prostestant or Eastern Orthodox in a comatose state?

Nevertheless, my questions are not regarding the technicalities of “salvation” presented by your church, but who exactly is the Bride who made herself ready in Rev. 19?

I’m sorry, I thought it had already been stated. The Bride is the Catholic Church - the Only, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

 

[NotWorthy]

Hi,

Ok so I have been baptized as a baby in the episcopal church ,which believes in the Trinity. I accepted Christ into my heart at age 30 in a baptist church and I know worship God at a non-denom church. I do know about the CC and their doctrines but I am still not catholic.

Would I be considered part of the Bride?

You’re part of the bride, but not in complete communion with the Bride.

The Church offers the Forgiveness of our Sins, through Confession. She offers the Body and Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ through the Eucharist. These all bestows God’s Graces on us through His Bride, the Church. There are numerous other Gifts that Jesus left with His Bride that you are not taking advantage of.

But I would say you are still part of the Bride.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

You’re part of the bride, but not in complete communion with the Bride.

The Church offers the Forgiveness of our Sins, through Confession. She offers the Body and Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ through the Eucharist. These all bestows God’s Graces on us through His Bride, the Church. There are numerous other Gifts that Jesus left with His Bride that you are not taking advantage of.

But I would say you are still part of the Bride.

Hi,
Thanks Ill take that answer.

 

[Mommyof02green]

You’re part of the bride, but not in complete communion with the Bride.
The Church offers the Forgiveness of our Sins, through Confession. She offers the Body and Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ through the Eucharist. These all bestows God’s Graces on us through His Bride, the Church. There are numerous other Gifts that Jesus left with His Bride that you are not taking advantage of.

But I would say you are still part of the Bride.

I agree, and paragraphs 836-838 are clear on this:

The Question right before paragraph 836 states: Who belongs to the Catholic Church??? Paragraphs 836-838 are the answer.

Once again here is the web-link to those paragraphs:
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p3.htm

838 states:…Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.”…

So ALLFORHIM, you are in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Therefore you are apart of the “Bride of Christ”.

Also, Apophasis, if you were baptized with water and in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, then you too are in a certain, although imperfect communion with the Catholic Church. Therefore you are apart of the “Bride of Christ”.

The question to ask yourself ALLFORHIM, is how well do you know the Catholic Church???

Do you know the Catholic Church, like you know yourself… meaning you really, really know?

Or do you know the Catholic Church like you know a good friend??? Meaning you know the Catholic Church, but yet there are things that you may not know??? (After all we can know our friends, but yet not know every thing.)

That is the key difference here: It is possible to know something, but not really truly know it.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I agree, and paragraphs 836-838 are clear on this:

The Question right before paragraph 836 states: Who belongs to the Catholic Church??? Paragraphs 836-838 are the answer.

Once again here is the web-link to those paragraphs:
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p3.htm

838 states:…Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.”…

So ALLFORHIM, you are in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Therefore you are apart of the “Bride of Christ”.

Also, Apophasis, if you were baptized with water and in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, then you too are in a certain, although imperfect communion with the Catholic Church. Therefore you are apart of the “Bride of Christ”.

The question to ask yourself ALLFORHIM, is how well do you know the Catholic Church???

Do you know the Catholic Church, like you know yourself… meaning you really, really know?

Or do you know the Catholic Church like you know a good friend??? Meaning you know the Catholic Church, but yet there are things that you may not know??? (After all we can know our friends, but yet not know every thing.)

That is the key difference here: It is possible to know something, but not really truly know it.

Hi,
I KNOW I DO NOT KNOW everything about the CC. How could I was not raised catholic. Although I am learning alot from this forum. Sad to say it is not convincing me at all that the CC is the one and only church of Christ.

I would venture to say that catholics dont know alot either. They may know more then I but probably not much more. Except for the people on these forums. You guys know alot!!