Who Is The Church?

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Is it,

a) Those That Believe Correct Doctrine?
b) Those That Produce The Fruit Of The Spirit?
c) The Priesthood Of All Believers?
d) Those In The Reformed Movement?
e) Those That Embrace Arminian Theology?
f) Those That Speak In Tongues?
g) Those That Interpret Those That Speak In Tongues?
h) The Catholic Church?
i) Those That Know No Theology Yet Pray Every Day?
j) The Orthodox Church?
k) Those That Have Been Baptized?
l) Those That Have Accepted Jesus Into Their Hearts?
m) Other?​

Feel free to give reasons for your view.

Appreciatively,
Mick
👍
 
The Church is the Church that Christ started on Peter. The Catholic or LDS Church.
 
The Church exists in three parts:

A) The Church triumphant - members of the Church Triumphant are those members of the body of Christ enjoying the beatific vision in Heaven

B) The Church Sufferring - members of the Body of Christ who have left this world and are undergoing final purgation before entrance into the beatific vision.

C) The Church Militant - members of the Body of Christ who are living in this world, working out thier salvation in fear and trembling.
 
The Church exists in three parts:

A) The Church triumphant - members of the Church Triumphant are those members of the body of Christ enjoying the beatific vision in Heaven

B) The Church Sufferring - members of the Body of Christ who have left this world and are undergoing final purgation before entrance into the beatific vision.

C) The Church Militant - members of the Body of Christ who are living in this world, working out thier salvation in fear and trembling.
Thanks for your comment.

Is it your view that Non–Catholics are not members of the Body of Christ?

Curiously,
Mick
👍
 
The Three Divisions (Church Suffering, Church Militant, and Church Triumphant) are all correct. The members of the Body of Christ are all of us (whether we are Christian, including Catholic Christian, or not) but some members are in a less than full or perfect union with the Body.

And even of those in a more perfect union (such as full-fledged, card-carrying baptized and church-goin’ Christians who read the Bible daily etc.), they may be ‘less than perfect’ in their cooperation with that union.

I might be a card-carrying Democrat but if I routinely vetoed all Democratic bills, voted for only Libertarians, and consistently scoffed at all Democratic positions, I could certainly call myself a Democrat but to all intents and purposes I would be a really, really ‘poor’ Democrat.

Same thing with all of us as members of The Church. We could be baptized Catholics who support all kinds of anti-Catholic teachings (good union but bad cooperation); we could be Jews or Muslims who adhered to their teachings and in doing so were either true to God’s law, or untrue; there’s a huge spectrum there.

We are all the Church but we are all individuals. Some of us are more aware of The Church’s teachings and more obedient; some are less so. Some accept the Church totally; some reject it totally, but until the day of our death we all have an opportunity to accept Christ and His Church.
 
A rather strange poll, don’t you think, in the way that it mixes abstract ideas (correct doctrine) with very concrete communions (the Catholic Church, the Orthodox church), etc. I suppose you want to cover all your bases.

I would say that my answer would be the Church is A, B, I, K, and M, and that I am becoming more and more convinced every day that these qualities (especially A) are more likely to be found in a church that is H and J rather than just H.

The question, then, is which KIND of J is the true J?
 
A rather strange poll, don’t you think, in the way that it mixes abstract ideas (correct doctrine) with very concrete communions (the Catholic Church, the Orthodox church), etc. I suppose you want to cover all your bases.
I do indeed. 🙂
I would say that my answer would be the Church is A, B, I, K, and M, and that I am becoming more and more convinced every day that these qualities (especially A) are more likely to be found in a church that is H and J rather than just H.

The question, then, is which KIND of J is the true J?
That’s certainly a question I’d like posters to address. 🙂

Hopefully,
Mick
👍
 
Feel free to give reasons for your view.
We believe that there is one holy Christian Church on earth, the Head of which is Christ and which is gathered, preserved, and governed by Christ through the Gospel.

The members of the Christian Church are the Christians, that is, all those who have despaired of their own righteousness before God and believe that God forgives their sins for Christ’s sake. The Christian Church, in the proper sense of the term, is composed of believers only, Acts 5:14; 26:18; which means that no person in whom the Holy Ghost has wrought faith in the Gospel, or – which is the same thing – in the doctrine of justification, can be divested of his membership in the Christian Church; and, on the other hand, that no person in whose heart this faith does not dwell can be invested with such membership. All unbelievers, though they be in external communion with the Church and even hold the office of teacher or any other office in the Church, are not members of the Church, but, on the contrary, dwelling-places and instruments of Satan, Eph. 2:2. This is also the teaching of our Lutheran Confessions: “It is certain, however, that the wicked are in the power of the devil and members of the kingdom of the devil, as Paul teaches, Eph. 2:2, when he says that `the devil now worketh in the children of disobedience,”’ etc. (Apology, Triglot, p. 231, Paragraph 16; M., p. 154.)

Since it is by faith in the gospel alone that men become members of the Christian Church, and since this faith cannot be seen by men, but is known to God alone, 1 Kings 8:39; Acts 1:24; 2 Tim. 2:19, therefore the Christian Church on earth is invisible till Judgment Day, Col. 3:3, 4. In our day some Lutherans speak of two sides of the Church, taking the means of grace to be its “visible side.” It is true, the means of grace are necessarily related to the Church, seeing that the Church is created and preserved through them. But the means of grace are not for that reason a part of the Church; for the Church, in the proper sense of the word, consists only of believers, Eph. 2:19, 20; Acts 5:14. Lest we abet the notion that the Christian Church in the proper sense of the term is an external institution, we shall continue to call the means of grace the “marks” of the Church. Just as wheat is to be found only where it has been sown, so the Church can be found only where the Word of God is in use.

We teach that this Church, which is the invisible communion of all believers, is to be found not only in those external church communions which teach the Word of God purely in every part, but also where, along with error, so much of the Word of God still remains that men may be brought to the knowledge of their sins and to faith in the forgiveness of sins, which Christ has gained for all men, Mark 16:16; Samaritans: Luke 17:16; John 4:25.

Holy Scripture, however, does not speak merely of the one Church, which embraces the believers of all places, as in Matt. 16:18; John 10:16, but also of churches in the plural, that is, of local churches, as in 1 Cor. 16:19; 1:2; Acts 8:1: the Churches of Asia, the church of God in Corinth, the church in Jerusalem. But this does not mean that there are two kinds of churches, for the local churches also, in as far as they are churches, consist solely of believers, as we see clearly from the addresses of the epistles to local churches; for example, “unto the church which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified, in Christ Jesus, called to be saints,” 1 Cor. 1:2, Rom. 1:7, etc. The visible society, containing hypocrites as well as believers, is called a church only in a improper sense, Matt. 13:47-50, 24-30, 38-43.

Since God ordained that His Word only, without the admixture of human doctrine, be taught and believed in the Christian Church, 1 Pet. 4:11; John 8:31, 32; 1 Tim. 6:3, 4, all Christians are required by God to discriminate between orthodox and heterodox church-bodies, Matt. 7:15, to have church-fellowship only with orthodox church-bodies, and, in case they have strayed into heterodox church-bodies, to leave them, Rom. 16:17. We repudiate unionism, that is, church-fellowship with the adherents of false doctrine, as disobedience to God’s command, as causing divisions in the Church, Rom. 16:17; 2 John 9, 10, and involving the constant danger of losing the Word of God entirely, 2 Ti. 2:17-21.

The orthodox character of a church is established not by its mere name nor by its outward acceptance of, and subscription to, an orthodox creed, but by the doctrine which is actually taught in its pulpits, in its theological seminaries, and in its publications. On the other hand, a church does not forfeit its orthodox character through the casual intrusion of errors, provided these are combated and eventually removed by means of doctrinal discipline, Acts 20:30; 1 Tim. 1:3.

Since the Christians are the Church, it is self- evident that they alone originally possess the spiritual gifts and rights which Christ has gained for, and given to, His Church. Thus St. Paul reminds all believers: “All things are yours,” 1 Cor. 3:21, 22, and Christ Himself commits to all believers the keys of the kingdom of heaven, Matt. 16:13- 19, 18:17-20, John 20:22, 23, and commissions all believers to preach the Gospel and to administer the Sacraments, Matt. 28:19, 20,; 1 Cor. 11:23-25. Accordingly, we reject all doctrines by which this spiritual power or any part thereof is adjudged as originally vested in certain individuals or bodies, such as the Pope, or the bishops, or the order of the ministry, or the secular lords, or councils, or synods, etc. The officers of the Church publicly administer their offices only by virtue of delegated powers, and such administration remains under the supervision of the latter, Col. 4:17.
 
We believe that there is one holy Christian Church on earth, the Head of which is Christ and which is gathered, preserved, and governed by Christ through the Gospel.

The members of the Christian Church are the Christians, that is, all those who have despaired of their own righteousness before God and believe that God forgives their sins for Christ’s sake. The Christian Church, in the proper sense of the term, is composed of believers only, Acts 5:14; 26:18; which means that no person in whom the Holy Ghost has wrought faith in the Gospel, or – which is the same thing – in the doctrine of justification, can be divested of his membership in the Christian Church; and, on the other hand, that no person in whose heart this faith does not dwell can be invested with such membership. All unbelievers, though they be in external communion with the Church and even hold the office of teacher or any other office in the Church, are not members of the Church, but, on the contrary, dwelling-places and instruments of Satan, Eph. 2:2. This is also the teaching of our Lutheran Confessions: “It is certain, however, that the wicked are in the power of the devil and members of the kingdom of the devil, as Paul teaches, Eph. 2:2, when he says that `the devil now worketh in the children of disobedience,”’ etc. (Apology, Triglot, p. 231, Paragraph 16; M., p. 154.)

Since it is by faith in the gospel alone that men become members of the Christian Church, and since this faith cannot be seen by men, but is known to God alone, 1 Kings 8:39; Acts 1:24; 2 Tim. 2:19, therefore the Christian Church on earth is invisible till Judgment Day, Col. 3:3, 4. In our day some Lutherans speak of two sides of the Church, taking the means of grace to be its “visible side.” It is true, the means of grace are necessarily related to the Church, seeing that the Church is created and preserved through them. But the means of grace are not for that reason a part of the Church; for the Church, in the proper sense of the word, consists only of believers, Eph. 2:19, 20; Acts 5:14. Lest we abet the notion that the Christian Church in the proper sense of the term is an external institution, we shall continue to call the means of grace the “marks” of the Church. Just as wheat is to be found only where it has been sown, so the Church can be found only where the Word of God is in use.

We teach that this Church, which is the invisible communion of all believers, is to be found not only in those external church communions which teach the Word of God purely in every part, but also where, along with error, so much of the Word of God still remains that men may be brought to the knowledge of their sins and to faith in the forgiveness of sins, which Christ has gained for all men, Mark 16:16; Samaritans: Luke 17:16; John 4:25.

Holy Scripture, however, does not speak merely of the one Church, which embraces the believers of all places, as in Matt. 16:18; John 10:16, but also of churches in the plural, that is, of local churches, as in 1 Cor. 16:19; 1:2; Acts 8:1: the Churches of Asia, the church of God in Corinth, the church in Jerusalem. But this does not mean that there are two kinds of churches, for the local churches also, in as far as they are churches, consist solely of believers, as we see clearly from the addresses of the epistles to local churches; for example, “unto the church which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified, in Christ Jesus, called to be saints,” 1 Cor. 1:2, Rom. 1:7, etc. The visible society, containing hypocrites as well as believers, is called a church only in a improper sense, Matt. 13:47-50, 24-30, 38-43.

Since God ordained that His Word only, without the admixture of human doctrine, be taught and believed in the Christian Church, 1 Pet. 4:11; John 8:31, 32; 1 Tim. 6:3, 4, all Christians are required by God to discriminate between orthodox and heterodox church-bodies, Matt. 7:15, to have church-fellowship only with orthodox church-bodies, and, in case they have strayed into heterodox church-bodies, to leave them, Rom. 16:17. We repudiate unionism, that is, church-fellowship with the adherents of false doctrine, as disobedience to God’s command, as causing divisions in the Church, Rom. 16:17; 2 John 9, 10, and involving the constant danger of losing the Word of God entirely, 2 Ti. 2:17-21.

The orthodox character of a church is established not by its mere name nor by its outward acceptance of, and subscription to, an orthodox creed, but by the doctrine which is actually taught in its pulpits, in its theological seminaries, and in its publications. On the other hand, a church does not forfeit its orthodox character through the casual intrusion of errors, provided these are combated and eventually removed by means of doctrinal discipline, Acts 20:30; 1 Tim. 1:3.

Since the Christians are the Church, it is self- evident that they alone originally possess the spiritual gifts and rights which Christ has gained for, and given to, His Church. Thus St. Paul reminds all believers: “All things are yours,” 1 Cor. 3:21, 22, and Christ Himself commits to all believers the keys of the kingdom of heaven, Matt. 16:13- 19, 18:17-20, John 20:22, 23, and commissions all believers to preach the Gospel and to administer the Sacraments, Matt. 28:19, 20,; 1 Cor. 11:23-25. Accordingly, we reject all doctrines by which this spiritual power or any part thereof is adjudged as originally vested in certain individuals or bodies, such as the Pope, or the bishops, or the order of the ministry, or the secular lords, or councils, or synods, etc. The officers of the Church publicly administer their offices only by virtue of delegated powers, and such administration remains under the supervision of the latter, Col. 4:17.
Thanks.

Cordially,
Mick
👍
 
Mhm. Right you are, Onacloudyday. There is only one kind of Orthodox church. On Mt. Athos it is Chalcedonian. At Abu Makar in Wadi Natrun it is non-Chalcedonian. 😉
 
Mhm. Right you are, Onacloudyday. There is only one kind of Orthodox church. On Mt. Athos it is Chalcedonian. At Abu Makar in Wadi Natrun it is non-Chalcedonian. 😉
orthodox church means accept all 7 ecumenical councils. if not accept council chalcedon then not real orthodox. some people want to call themself something they not. they lie but might not think or know. see only 1 orthodox.
 
Thanks for your comment.

Is it your view that Non–Catholics are not members of the Body of Christ?

Curiously,
Mick
👍
No, that is not my view. All Baptized Christians are part of the Body of Christ.

(CCC 1273 , 804,805)
 
orthodox church means accept all 7 ecumenical councils. if not accept council chalcedon then not real orthodox. some people want to call themself something they not. they lie but might not think or know. see only 1 orthodox.
Well that is for your patriarchs and others engaged in ecumenism with the non-Chalcedonians to decide. As I am not Orthodox I do not feel it is my place to make such judgments, I am only pointing out that for the non-partisan observer it isn’t quite that simple.
 
how you know if someone baptized christian really? i see on tv some church pentecostal baptized in ‘the name of Jesus’ not in 'the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit". they persons think they baptized christians but i think they not what you think? also what if baptized in ‘the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit’ but chrism not used and they not tontured you think they still baptized christians?
No, that is not my view. All Baptized Christians are part of the Body of Christ.

(CCC 1273 , 804,805)
 
how you know if someone baptized christian really? i see on tv some church pentecostal baptized in ‘the name of Jesus’ not in 'the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit". they persons think they baptized christians but i think they not what you think? also what if baptized in ‘the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit’ but chrism not used and they not tontured you think they still baptized christians?
It doesn’t really matter if **I **know someone’s Baptismal status. For formal membership in the Catholic Church, trinitarian baptism with water is all that is required. Chrism isn’t necessary. Tonsuring is a practice associated with holy orders or religious life and, as far as I know, not related to Baptism at all. :confused:
 
it simple. if not believe in 7 ecumenical councils not orthodox. simple. very simple. no decision need. either yes or no.
Well that is for your patriarchs and others engaged in ecumenism with the non-Chalcedonians to decide. As I am not Orthodox I do not feel it is my place to make such judgments, I am only pointing out that for the non-partisan observer it isn’t quite that simple.
 
the church is visible not invisible so everyone be able to know who is member and who is not.

tonsuring cutting baby hair or convert hair part of baptism always chrism too. everyone must have spiritual life not just holy order or religious life tonsure is sacrifice.
It doesn’t really matter if **I **know someone’s Baptismal status. For formal membership in the Catholic Church, trinitarian baptism with water is all that is required. Chrism isn’t necessary. Tonsuring is a practice associated with holy orders or religious life and, as far as I know, not related to Baptism at all. :confused:
 
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