Who is the Gardener?

[Reuben_J]

Luke 13: 1-9 NAB
“There once was a person who had a fig tree planted in his orchard,
and when he came in search of fruit on it but found none,
he said to the gardener,
‘For three years now I have come in search of fruit on this fig tree
but have found none.
So cut it down.
Why should it exhaust the soil?’
He said to him in reply,
‘Sir, leave it for this year also,
and I shall cultivate the ground around it and fertilize it;
it may bear fruit in the future.
If not you can cut it down.’”

Who is the gardener?
What is the fig tree?
What does this passage means to you?

Thanks and God bless.

 

[Julian0404]

The gardener can be the Virgin Mary being our Co-Redemtrix with JESUS, it can be the HOLY SPIRIT interceding for us - the fig trees -, it can be JESUS HIMSELF giving us a “little more time”.
We are the fig trees, and unless we bear “good fruit”, produce the “figs” necessary of a fig tree, then we shall lose our eternal souls.
You cannot be Catholic if you do not produce Catholic fruit, i.e. work to stop abortion, defend and evangelize the Catholic faith - which were the two requirements we assumed when we were Confirmed, Love and Forgive, support the Church with tithes and offerings etc, etc, etc.

 

[Benadam]

The gardener is God. The fig tree is the Jewish people.

***“There once was a person who had a fig tree planted in his orchard, ***
and when he came in search of fruit on it but found none,

God planted the tree. The Holy Spirit cultivated it, the Son came in search of fruit.

he said to the gardener,

The gardener at this point is the Holy Spirit

***For three years now I have come in search of fruit on this fig tree ***
but have found none.
So cut it down.
Why should it exhaust the soil?’

Now, God has come. The three years is Jesus’ ministry to the Jews.

He said to him in reply,
***‘Sir, leave it for this year also, ***
***and I shall cultivate the ground around it and fertilize it; ***

Since God has entered time and history the gardener is now the Church.

it may bear fruit in the future.
If not you can cut it down.’”

It may bear fruit in a twinkling of an eye.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

I think the gardener is Jesus. God (the proprietor) knows that we (the fig tree) deserve(s) to be “cut down”, but Jesus came to show us how to bear fruit and to turn what was once unfruitful into something fruitful through the Holy Spirit, giving us the time and means to reach our full spiritual potential.

We are here because of God (the proprietor); we are saved because of Jesus (the gardener) through the Holy Spirit, through whom we bear spiritual fruit.

 

[TEPO]

I think the gardener is Jesus. God (the proprietor) knows that we (the fig tree) deserve(s) to be “cut down”, but Jesus came to show us how to bear fruit and to turn what was once unfruitful into something fruitful through the Holy Spirit, giving us the time and means to reach our full spiritual potential.

We are here because of God (the proprietor); we are saved because of Jesus (the gardener) through the Holy Spirit, through whom we bear spiritual fruit.

Would it be OK to say:

We are here because of the Holy Spirit (the proprietor); we are saved because of God (the gardener) through Jesus by whom we bear spiritual fruit…?

 

[TEPO]

Luke 13: 1-9 NAB
“There once was a person who had a fig tree planted in his orchard,
and when he came in search of fruit on it but found none,
he said to the gardener,
‘For three years now I have come in search of fruit on this fig tree
but have found none.
So cut it down.
Why should it exhaust the soil?’
He said to him in reply,
‘Sir, leave it for this year also,
and I shall cultivate the ground around it and fertilize it;
it may bear fruit in the future.
If not you can cut it down.’”

Who is the gardener?
What is the fig tree?
What does this passage means to you?

Thanks and God bless.

–The gardener is GOD, whom we often refer to as the Holy Trinity because of His three aspects.

–The Fig tree was the Jewish People who were being offered one last chance in which they failed, and were thus “cut down”.

–This passage is a very sad passage… It is about Gods desperation to help those whom He loves.

 

[TEPO]

The gardener is God. The fig tree is the Jewish people.

***“There once was a person who had a fig tree planted in his orchard, ***
and when he came in search of fruit on it but found none,

God planted the tree. The Holy Spirit cultivated it, the Son came in search of fruit.

he said to the gardener,

The gardener at this point is the Holy Spirit

***For three years now I have come in search of fruit on this fig tree ***
but have found none.
So cut it down.
Why should it exhaust the soil?’

Now, God has come. The three years is Jesus’ ministry to the Jews.

He said to him in reply,
***‘Sir, leave it for this year also, ***
***and I shall cultivate the ground around it and fertilize it; ***

Since God has entered time and history the gardener is now the Church.

it may bear fruit in the future.
If not you can cut it down.’”

It may bear fruit in a twinkling of an eye.

I disagree… This story is only about the Jews. They were given one last chance in which they failed miserably. The fig tree is dead.

 

[Reuben_J]

Thanks to all of you who have participated and offer your thought on the given passage.

Looking at it in another way, could it be God sees the world or His Church rather, as a barren farm. We Christians are too often unfruitful and unfaithful. He sent His Son to tend to the farm but the fig trees nevertheless did not bear fruit. The Owner of the farm wanted to cut it but the Gardener stood between the Owner and us – he interceded for us,
‘Sir, leave it for this year also,
and I shall cultivate the ground around it and fertilize it;
it may bear fruit in the future.
If not you can cut it down.’

Isn’t that true of us? We can only be fruitful not so much by our own strength and effort but by the manure and the care that the Gardener does for us.

Sometimes we often ask – it is difficult to bear fruit in our lives because we are merely human. We forget sometimes that Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit can make us bear fruit. How great it would be if we allow the Gardener to do his work in cultivating us so that we may bear fruit and not to be cut down.

What do you think of the meaning of ‘cutting the fig tree down’?

Looking forwards for more (name removed by moderator)ut from you all.

 

[thomas_jd]

Luke 13: 1-9 NAB
“There once was a person who had a fig tree planted in his orchard,
and when he came in search of fruit on it but found none,
he said to the gardener,
‘For three years now I have come in search of fruit on this fig tree
but have found none.
So cut it down.
Why should it exhaust the soil?’
He said to him in reply,
‘Sir, leave it for this year also,
and I shall cultivate the ground around it and fertilize it;
it may bear fruit in the future.
If not you can cut it down.’”

Who is the gardener?
What is the fig tree?
What does this passage means to you?

Thanks and God bless.

God
The tree produces Grace.
God waits paitently for the grace to appear in us.
Rough interpretation from the Navarre.

 

[Benadam]

I disagree… This story is only about the Jews. They were given one last chance in which they failed miserably. The fig tree is dead.

True, we can’t forget who Jesus was teaching at the time. In the end, the conversion of the Jews triggers the resurrection of the dead. That fig tree will bear fruit at the end. I believe it’s about us too. I believe the internalized interpretation that see’s it as grace. All are true I think.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Thanks to all of you who have participated and offer your thought on the given passage.

Looking at it in another way, could it be God sees the world or His Church rather, as a barren farm. We Christians are too often unfruitful and unfaithful. He sent His Son to tend to the farm but the fig trees nevertheless did not bear fruit. The Owner of the farm wanted to cut it but the Gardener stood between the Owner and us – he interceded for us,
‘Sir, leave it for this year also,
and I shall cultivate the ground around it and fertilize it;
it may bear fruit in the future.
If not you can cut it down.’

Isn’t that true of us? We can only be fruitful not so much by our own strength and effort but by the manure and the care that the Gardener does for us.

Sometimes we often ask – it is difficult to bear fruit in our lives because we are merely human. We forget sometimes that Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit can make us bear fruit. How great it would be if we allow the Gardener to do his work in cultivating us so that we may bear fruit and not to be cut down.

What do you think of the meaning of ‘cutting the fig tree down’?

Looking forwards for more (name removed by moderator)ut from you all.

Personally, I still see the Old Testament God as the owner/proprietor of the farm. He sees the fig tree (us) as unproductive and barren and decides that we should be cut down (destroyed…written off…much like those destroyed in the great flood or at Sodom and Gomorrah) because we will never be productive…we will never produce good fruit. Jesus is the Gardener who intercedes for us. He cultivates us and gives us the things we need (blessings and teachings/graces through the Holy Spirit) in order to become productive and bear good fruit.

 

[Reuben_J]

Personally, I still see the Old Testament God as the owner/proprietor of the farm. He sees the fig tree (us) as unproductive and barren and decides that we should be cut down (destroyed…written off…much like those destroyed in the great flood or at Sodom and Gomorrah) because we will never be productive…we will never produce good fruit. Jesus is the Gardener who intercedes for us. He cultivates us and gives us the things we need (blessings and teachings/graces through the Holy Spirit) in order to become productive and bear good fruit.

Yes, I tend to look at the parable that way too.

Looking at the passage at another level – just before Jesus told the parable he said this:

Some people told Jesus about the Galileans
whose blood Pilate had mingled with the blood of their sacrifices.
He said to them in reply,
“Do you think that because these Galileans suffered in this way
they were greater sinners than all other Galileans?
By no means!
But I tell you, if you do not repent,
you will all perish as they did!
Or those eighteen people who were killed
when the tower at Siloam fell on them–
do you think they were more guilty
than everyone else who lived in Jerusalem?
By no means!
But I tell you, if you do not repent,
you will all perish as they did!” Lk 13:1-5

I am struck by the attitude of Jesus about the Galileans who were killed by Pilate and whose blood was mingled with their sacrifice and the eighteen people who were killed by the fallen tower at Siloam.

While people condemned them saying that they sinned, Jesus did not. They were no less sinners than any of the commentators but what’s important was that they repent.

You know, we could be the gardeners (small letter) too. Too often we make judgment against the Church – she did not do enough, abusive priests and so the Church is going down the drain, our local parish is not flourishing, the sermon is dull, the Children ministry does not grow, there’s always bickering in the leadership, and so on. But for Jesus, he would give them another year to grow and he would manure them.

We too should have this responsibility and that whatever happens in the Church, it is for us to build. If we are given an already vibrant church the responsibility would be bigger still for us – to make it even more vibrant, remembering that St Paul told us that the ‘Lord has given us the gift as apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers, to knit God’s holy people together for the work of service to build up the body of Christ’. (Eph 4:11-12)

Any comment?

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Yes, I tend to look at the parable that way too.

Looking at the passage at another level – just before Jesus told the parable he said this:

Some people told Jesus about the Galileans
whose blood Pilate had mingled with the blood of their sacrifices.
He said to them in reply,
“Do you think that because these Galileans suffered in this way
they were greater sinners than all other Galileans?
By no means!
But I tell you, if you do not repent,
you will all perish as they did!
Or those eighteen people who were killed
when the tower at Siloam fell on them–
do you think they were more guilty
than everyone else who lived in Jerusalem?
By no means!
But I tell you, if you do not repent,
you will all perish as they did!” Lk 13:1-5

I am struck by the attitude of Jesus about the Galileans who were killed by Pilate and whose blood was mingled with their sacrifice and the eighteen people who were killed by the fallen tower at Siloam.

While people condemned them saying that they sinned, Jesus did not. They were no less sinners than any of the commentators but what’s important was that they repent.

You know, we could be the gardeners (small letter) too. Too often we make judgment against the Church – she did not do enough, abusive priests and so the Church is going down the drain, our local parish is not flourishing, the sermon is dull, the Children ministry does not grow, there’s always bickering in the leadership, and so on. But for Jesus, he would give them another year to grow and he would manure them.

We too should have this responsibility and that whatever happens in the Church, it is for us to build. If we are given an already vibrant church the responsibility would be bigger still for us – to make it even more vibrant, remembering that St Paul told us that the ‘Lord has given us the gift as apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers, to knit God’s holy people together for the work of service to build up the body of Christ’. (Eph 4:11-12)

Any comment?

This is why the Bible is such a wonderful and amazing work. Jesus’ parables are told in such a way as to be relevant for all time, in so many different circumstances. while we rely on the Church to interpret the Bible in many ways since it is the Church who has knowledge of the historical context, etc., we can also read the parables and personally interpret them as we feel their applicability to our own lives.

In this way, we could very well be the gardeners of the Church or even our own souls. Many interpretations of this parable can be beneficial and poignant.

 

[rcjones]

The Hebrew word for ‘year’ also means ‘do it again’. In the sensus plenior, this is referring to prophetic recapitulation where pictures of Christ are repeated in different scopes.

Scope 1: The three days are three divisions of time, which each division contains a picture of Christ. These divisions are The Book of the Fathers (Genesis), the Book of the Son (The history of Israel), and the Book of the Holy Ghost (the Life of Christ). Each of these divisions contains a hidden picture of Christ as spoken by God in the voices of prophet, priest, king and judge. During each of these three days, there is no spiritual fruitfulness or multiplying. This takes place in the Book of the church (the letters) after the resurrection.

Scope 2: The Book of the Son has three divisions each containing a picture of Christ. The exodus and wilderness, The times of Judges, Priests, kings and prophets, and the time of Christ. During each of these “days” they were unfruitful. The multiplying did not come until after the cross. (I am only about 60% sure on this division since it overlaps the book of the Holy Ghost) I suspect it may break differently such as the Exodus, The Anarchy, and The four voices.) Israel was supposed to bear living children on behalf of Adam. Israel refused to do its duty, as Onan did.

Scope 3: In the Book of the Holy Ghost, Jesus ministered three literal years and died unfruitful, desolate and alone. Only in the fourth day was he fruitful and multiplying in the resurrection.

In sensus plenior when there is a threat of death that isn’t carried out, it is a picture of the cross where there is a death and resurrection. So the threat to the tree which is not carried out is a reference to the cross.,

Each of these pictures foreshadows the cross where he spent three days in the grave, unfruitful, until the resurrection.

 

[PJM]

=Reuben J;7191492]Luke 13: 1-9 NAB
“There once was a person who had a fig tree planted in his orchard,
and when he came in search of fruit on it but found none,
he said to the gardener,
‘For three years now I have come in search of fruit on this fig tree
but have found none.
So cut it down.
Why should it exhaust the soil?’
He said to him in reply,
‘Sir, leave it for this year also,
and I shall cultivate the ground around it and fertilize it;
it may bear fruit in the future.
If not you can cut it down.’”

Who is the gardener?
What is the fig tree?
What does this passage means to you?

Thanks and God bless.

The gardner is in JUDGEMENT Jesus Christ;

The fig tree represents “Right” or “wrong” use of the talents on loan to us from God and how we freely choose to either apply them corrently or incorrectly, fully or partially.

It means to me that as Isaiah say’s in 43: vrs. 7 and 21; that humanity is placed here for a precise purpose with specific talents and gifts fro God that are merly ON LOAN to us:

**V.7: **[7] “every one who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made.”

V.21: " the people whom I formed for myself that they might declare my praise."

 

[Reuben_J]

The Hebrew word for ‘year’ also means ‘do it again’. In the sensus plenior, this is referring to prophetic recapitulation where pictures of Christ are repeated in different scopes.

Scope 1: The three days are three divisions of time, which each division contains a picture of Christ. These divisions are The Book of the Fathers (Genesis), the Book of the Son (The history of Israel), and the Book of the Holy Ghost (the Life of Christ). Each of these divisions contains a hidden picture of Christ as spoken by God in the voices of prophet, priest, king and judge. During each of these three days, there is no spiritual fruitfulness or multiplying. This takes place in the Book of the church (the letters) after the resurrection.

Scope 2: The Book of the Son has three divisions each containing a picture of Christ. The exodus and wilderness, The times of Judges, Priests, kings and prophets, and the time of Christ. During each of these “days” they were unfruitful. The multiplying did not come until after the cross. (I am only about 60% sure on this division since it overlaps the book of the Holy Ghost) I suspect it may break differently such as the Exodus, The Anarchy, and The four voices.) Israel was supposed to bear living children on behalf of Adam. Israel refused to do its duty, as Onan did.

Scope 3: In the Book of the Holy Ghost, Jesus ministered three literal years and died unfruitful, desolate and alone. Only in the fourth day was he fruitful and multiplying in the resurrection.

In sensus plenior when there is a threat of death that isn’t carried out, it is a picture of the cross where there is a death and resurrection. So the threat to the tree which is not carried out is a reference to the cross.,

Each of these pictures foreshadows the cross where he spent three days in the grave, unfruitful, until the resurrection.

Thank you for this (name removed by moderator)ut, rcjones and also for your pm. It was informative and interesting. However I need more time to study it and its implication.

I am curious about your post above which seems to me the parable of the gardener is merely a prophecy fulfilled. What use it then for us? Prophecy very often has multi-level explanations and none can be explicitly definitive. I am often wary when we have to rely on learned theologians to understand Bible passages especially the more common ones.

Well, it’s the curiosity in me. If you don’t mind, what would be your thought if Lk 3:1-9 is used together with Eph 4:7-16? What could be the connection between these two passages, if any?

God bless.

 

[rcjones]

I am curious about your post above which seems to me the parable of the gardener is merely a prophecy fulfilled. What use it then for us? Prophecy very often has multi-level explanations and none can be explicitly definitive.

There are two primary meanings, according to the Catholic Catechism, the literal and the spiritual. The spiritual has three levels. Others are competent to comment on the literal, and the literal never loses it’s meaning. So although I choose to comment only on the spiritual, please do not interpret it to denigrate the literal in any way.

It is curious that you would use the term ‘merely’ for fulfilled prophecy. Isn’t that one of the primary purposes of scripture? To speak of the cross? Is the cross any less relevant to us because it has occurred?

We should pay particular attention to the themes and motifs of prophecy as they apply to Christ, because as we are made to be like him, they apply to us as well.

I am often wary when we have to rely on learned theologians to understand Bible passages especially the more common ones.

Me too. The sensus plenior is revealed through the skill of riddling available to children. It is only difficult for us because we don’t speak Hebrew naturally. We actually have to unlearn pre-filtering the meaning of words based on our preconceived ideas in order to see them.

Today a twelve year old girl explained to me the hidden pictures of Christ found in the narratives of Elijah and Elisha.

Well, it’s the curiosity in me. If you don’t mind, what would be your thought if Lk 3:1-9 is used together with Eph 4:7-16? What could be the connection between these two passages, if any?

God bless.

The connection is Pr 18:13.

Blessings on you too.

 

[Reuben_J]

There are two primary meanings, according to the Catholic Catechism, the literal and the spiritual. The spiritual has three levels. Others are competent to comment on the literal, and the literal never loses it’s meaning. So although I choose to comment only on the spiritual, please do not interpret it to denigrate the literal in any way.

It is curious that you would use the term ‘merely’ for fulfilled prophecy. Isn’t that one of the primary purposes of scripture? To speak of the cross? Is the cross any less relevant to us because it has occurred?

We should pay particular attention to the themes and motifs of prophecy as they apply to Christ, because as we are made to be like him, they apply to us as well.

Of course it’s awesome that Jesus or the scripture rather refers to the cross much more than we know in verses that are sometimes not that obvious to us. When I read the passage the idea simply did not come to mind though.

I was talking about the practical usefulness of the word with regards to our journey of faith. In how it guides, instructs and encourages us as we journey through our own narrow and winding road.

You probably have a better grasp of the scripture than most of us. I hope I can refer to you again if I need more (name removed by moderator)ut.

Me too. The sensus plenior is revealed through the skill of riddling available to children. It is only difficult for us because we don’t speak Hebrew naturally. We actually have to unlearn pre-filtering the meaning of words based on our preconceived ideas in order to see them.

Today a twelve year old girl explained to me the hidden pictures of Christ found in the narratives of Elijah and Elisha.

This is great. On the other hand it would be interesting to hear the Jews take on this.

 

[rcjones]

This is great. On the other hand it would be interesting to hear the Jews take on this.

Remembering, of course, that modern Jews have adopted the methodologies of those who rejected Christ. Not all thing Jewish are Kosher.

When they learn this methodology, they are told, When you see the white rock, don’t say “water, water”. Which in riddle says, When you see Christ, Don’t say that he is the Torah in heaven and on earth. There are three threats that accompany this if they violate it.

By adding vowels around 600 AD they attempted to hide the pictures.

 

[rcjones]

I was talking about the practical usefulness of the word with regards to our journey of faith. In how it guides, instructs and encourages us as we journey through our own narrow and winding road.

In this life we are supposed to become ‘like Christ’ in many ways. When you recognize his humanity in kenosis, you will see how, without the use of the attributes of divinity, he resisted temptation and walked in obedience to the will of the Father. I’d think that this would help us in our day to day lives.

You probably have a better grasp of the scripture than most of us. I hope I can refer to you again if I need more (name removed by moderator)ut.

As I mentioned in the PM, I am nothing special. But I am always willing to show others what God has showed me.