Who is the Messiah for the Jews?

[HashemEchad]

of course . Whoever dies for something must believe in it 100% to die for it. The apostles who died for Jesus did not only die because they really thought He is the Messiah, but because they believed without a doubt that He died, and was resurrected.

Here, if a were a non-religious seeking either Judaism or Christianity, i’ll have to deal with some Jews’ interpretation of the Torah, and other Jews’ interpretation of the Torah in light of the man who said to be Messiah, died and resurrected to prove who He is. Will both parties die for their belief? surely, and death for the belief in Jesus’ death and resurrection after claming to be the Messiah is a proof that what this man was saying is the truth, in comparison to other’s interpretations because here we are not dealing with words and concepts anymore, but about a man who was crucified and resurrected to prove who He is and what He taught.

MANY people in history have chosen to die for what they believed in, or for what they believed in be true about themselves. Jesus was not the only one.

 

[HashemEchad]

Maybe because Judaism is not a missionary religion, we really don’t feel a need most of the time to go around, asking probing questions of Christians for the purpose of trying to ultimately convert them.

If not for the long, ignoble history Christianity has had in trying to convert Jews (and threatening to kill us, expel us or kidnap our children when we refused to convert), we would really never have had any interest in Christianity at all.

The interest stems primarily from trying to understand their religion better and get them to understand our faith better, in order to keep peace. Apart from that, most Jews would have no interest. For instance, if not for the fact that Christian missionary organizations funnel millions of dollars into organizations that try to convert Jews to Christianity, I would never have become an exit counselor or countermissionary, because there would have been no NEED.

 

[inJESUS]

MANY people in history have chosen to die for what they believed in, or for what they believed in be true about themselves. Jesus was not the only one.

that was not my point. I did confirm that people will indeed die for what they believe in. Jews died for believing not only that Jesus is the Messiah (wrong according to you), but because they witnessed His death and resurrection (you can never make wrong what they witnessed)…so i have the words of rabbis trying to interpret the Torah, without agreeing most of the time, and i have the words of a man who died and resurrected to prove He is who He said to be. In other words, you can try to prove that the apostles’ interpretations are wrong , but you cannot prove they did not witness the death and resurrection of whom you call a failed prophet. I think all people’s understanding fails in light of death and resurrection.

 

[ralphinal]

That would be a fair statement. Normative Judiasm “requires” belief that the Messiah will come. As for the Jewish family you knew, they may say they are sure their child is the Messiah (but they’re really hoping he’s a doctor).

Are lawyers now passe? What about accountants? Rabbis? Oy vay, don’t tell me that there will be a generation of Jews born that are only doctors. Well, at least it is competition for the Muslims.

 

[Ed_Rand]

You know what the ‘signs’ are - if not, google can be your friend, surely.

Honestly, I really didn’t know what the “signs” were when I asked. I should have read the links that you posted earlier. I must say, I think you will know your Messiah by the fact he will be covered in blood… Unless the Muslims disappear. Am I wrong? Are there Jews who believe the Messiah will do these things without bloodshed? Please, I mean no disrespect.

 

[Valke2]

Are lawyers now passe? What about accountants? Rabbis? Oy vay, don’t tell me that there will be a generation of Jews born that are only doctors. Well, at least it is competition for the Muslims.

In Normative Judaism, the legal profession is reserved for the “slow” child. Religious Jews become doctors. Secular Jews open electronic stores. As Zohan would say “this you know, yes?”

 

[ralphinal]

In Normative Judaism, the legal profession is reserved for the “slow” child. Religious Jews become doctors. Secular Jews open electronic stores. As Zohan would say “this you know, yes?”

Please do not forget jewelry stores as well. I had a Jewish professor who swore that Jewish women love gold and jewels because God cursed them with it after the Golden Calf incedent. He basically felt that if they wanted the stuff so badly, they would never give it up for idols again.

Be careful saying the law is reserved for the slow child, you can get sued.

Have you seen the Zohan?

 

[Valke2]

Please do not forget jewelry stores as well. I had a Jewish professor who swore that Jewish women love gold and jewels because God cursed them with it after the Golden Calf incedent. He basically felt that if they wanted the stuff so badly, they would never give it up for idols again.

Be careful saying the law is reserved for the slow child, you can get sued.

Have you seen the Zohan?

Yeah, I saw it Monday. I thought it was very funny.

 

[HashemEchad]

In Normative Judaism, the legal profession is reserved for the “slow” child. Religious Jews become doctors. Secular Jews open electronic stores. As Zohan would say “this you know, yes?”

Actually, the accountant profession is reserved for the “slow” child. You need to have a very sharp mind to be a good doctor or a good lawyer.

As Jackie Mason says, “With Jews, the smartest kid gets to be the doctor. If he’s not as smart as that kid, he gets to be a lawyer. If his mind doesn’t work at all, an accountant”.

 

[HashemEchad]

Please do not forget jewelry stores as well. I had a Jewish professor who swore that Jewish women love gold and jewels because God cursed them with it after the Golden Calf incedent. He basically felt that if they wanted the stuff so badly, they would never give it up for idols again.

Be careful saying the law is reserved for the slow child, you can get sued.

Have you seen the Zohan?

Actually, Jewish tradition teaches that the Jewish women did not want to give up their gold for the golden calf, the men had to take it from them by force (if you note the wording in the Torah, this makes sense…it says they had to “break the earrings off” the women.)

I never fit in with many of the stereotypes about Jewish women, I’m more of a “second-hand Rose” type (anyone remember that song?) I prefer thrift stores over Saks Fifth Avenue, because to me, getting a good deal is more important than impressing someone with how I paid a lot for something.

I don’t like gold; in fact I have a whole box of gold jewelry that was my mom’s, and I want to sell it. I’ve always been a sterling silver fan myself, I see it as prettier and more sophisticated.

What I find ironic is, one reason I dislike gold is because where I grew up, the lower income people on welfare used to wear lots of it, to make themselves seem wealthy. So it has a negative stigma in my mind.

I also never liked it since childhood, when I used to watch The Ten Commandments (with Yul Brynner and Charlton Heston), and saw the Israelites make the golden calf. I disliked gold ever since, because I associated it from a young age with idolatry.

 

[ralphinal]

Actually, Jewish tradition teaches that the Jewish women did not want to give up their gold for the golden calf, the men had to take it from them by force (if you note the wording in the Torah, this makes sense…it says they had to “break the earrings off” the women.)

I never fit in with many of the stereotypes about Jewish women, I’m more of a “second-hand Rose” type (anyone remember that song?) I prefer thrift stores over Saks Fifth Avenue, because to me, getting a good deal is more important than impressing someone with how I paid a lot for something.

I don’t like gold; in fact I have a whole box of gold jewelry that was my mom’s, and I want to sell it. I’ve always been a sterling silver fan myself, I see it as prettier and more sophisticated.

What I find ironic is, one reason I dislike gold is because where I grew up, the lower income people on welfare used to wear lots of it, to make themselves seem wealthy. So it has a negative stigma in my mind.

I also never liked it since childhood, when I used to watch The Ten Commandments (with Yul Brynner and Charlton Heston), and saw the Israelites make the golden calf. I disliked gold ever since, because I associated it from a young age with idolatry.

I can understand all of that. I would say that by saying that “getting a good deal is more important than impressing someone with how I paid a lot for something” does fall right in line with classic Jewish thoughts.

 

[HashemEchad]

I can understand all of that. I would say that by saying that “getting a good deal is more important than impressing someone with how I paid a lot for something” does fall right in line with classic Jewish thoughts.

Yup! Every time someone tries to impress me by telling me how they paid a fortune for something, all I can think is, “Man, what a shmuck to pay that much for something, when I know where he could have gotten a much better deal on it!”

What I keep forgetting is that some people see that as a sign of status; trying to make others see they can afford something like that.

 

[inJESUS]

Honestly, I really didn’t know what the “signs” were when I asked. I should have read the links that you posted earlier. I must say, I think you will know your Messiah by the fact he will be covered in blood… Unless the Muslims disappear. Am I wrong? Are there Jews who believe the Messiah will do these things without bloodshed? Please, I mean no disrespect.

are you refering to the masjid al laqsa of Muslims in Jerusalem?

 

[Ed_Rand]

are you refering to the masjid al laqsa of Muslims in Jerusalem?

Yes, I’m referring to all the Muslims in that area that would fight to the death against this Messiah.