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JanSobieskiIII
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This is why Sola Scriptura doesn’t work.
This is why Sola Scriptura doesn’t work.
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JanSobieskiIII
Guest
OP, in the Old Testament God repeatedly describes Himself as the only God, and that we are to have no other God’s. So if the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different beings, each a god in their own right, what does that imply?
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Aulef
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Actually this seems more like a problem of uninstructed Bible reading
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JanSobieskiIII
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To the contrary, the argument of Sola Scriptura is that anyone can read the Bible and understand it properly without any special education.
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Aulef
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His Nature: One, pure Spirit
His Persons: Three
You don’t talk to yourself? I doubt that, but I’ll suppose you’re being honest.
Anyway, when you talk or when you look at yourself at the mirror, in sum, when you act, you project yourself outside of your body and soul. But you do this in an imperfect way.
God, on the other hand, projects Himself perfectly. And, being perfect, they have their own persona. One of the projections is the Word/Miltha (the Son), and the Other is the Love (Holy Ghost). These, together with the Creator of all, are the Holy Trinity.
Finally, you mentioned the Saint Moses case in a later post. When God revealed Himself to this saint, he didn’t do it fully. But He did it enough so St Moses could understand His greatness. Oh, and by the way, it was Jesus Christ who interacted with Saint Moses at Sinai.
His Persons: Three
You don’t talk to yourself? I doubt that, but I’ll suppose you’re being honest.
Anyway, when you talk or when you look at yourself at the mirror, in sum, when you act, you project yourself outside of your body and soul. But you do this in an imperfect way.
God, on the other hand, projects Himself perfectly. And, being perfect, they have their own persona. One of the projections is the Word/Miltha (the Son), and the Other is the Love (Holy Ghost). These, together with the Creator of all, are the Holy Trinity.
Finally, you mentioned the Saint Moses case in a later post. When God revealed Himself to this saint, he didn’t do it fully. But He did it enough so St Moses could understand His greatness. Oh, and by the way, it was Jesus Christ who interacted with Saint Moses at Sinai.
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steve-b
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steve-b:
theMadJW:
You didn’t read the explanation.
If you will, albeit a poor example
At the end of time, everyone who ever lived and died will be raised. If their soul was in heaven, then body and soul are reunited, in heaven forever. If they were in hell, they are reunited body and soul in hell…forever
- God is one with 3 eternal components
- We are one with 2 components to us. Our soul and our body. The soul is spirit. Once created by God it lives forever. It can’t die. Grace in the soul is what dies with sin, but the soul doesn’t die. Sanctifying Grace in the soul, at death, is necessary for heaven. Therefore, because the soul can’t die, we are immortal from our conception. The body lives and it dies but will live again. When we die, the soul is immediately judged. We know at that moment where we will spend eternity. Heaven or hell. That’s because the soul has memory intellect and will. We aren’t just some disembodied spirit with no characteristics or awareness when we die.
Therefore, one needs to make sure here on this side of eternity, where they will spend eternity.
Bottom line, do whatever HE (Jesus) says.
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Wesrock
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The Church does not teach that there are three co-equal beings. There is only one God. There is one being who is three persons.
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Frankenfurter
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Given the fragment you have referenced, I can see your point. If we just take the text that you clipped in from John 17:1 it would appear that Jesus is saying that there is ONLY one true God, and then in addition there is this other guy Jesus.
So your point about the word ONLY is a good one since it means that this God is singular. Therefore it could not include this other guy, Jesus.
I think you make a good point in reference to this text.
But, Jesus said more in that verse and you did not include it in your reference , so let me include it here:
3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
OK, so now we know someone else. This guy Jesus, who is NOT the one true and ONLY God, was also with GOD before the world began. That is Jesus words directly.
So you can call Jesus what you want, but you must have him with God before the world began.
So your point about the word ONLY is a good one since it means that this God is singular. Therefore it could not include this other guy, Jesus.
I think you make a good point in reference to this text.
But, Jesus said more in that verse and you did not include it in your reference , so let me include it here:
3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
OK, so now we know someone else. This guy Jesus, who is NOT the one true and ONLY God, was also with GOD before the world began. That is Jesus words directly.
So you can call Jesus what you want, but you must have him with God before the world began.
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whyeyeman
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The father is the only true God, the Son is the only true God, and the holy spirit is the only true God. That is the trinity.
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HarryStotle
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What do you make of this?
The Shema: “Hear, Oh Israel, God is one…”
God: “Let us make man in our image and in our likeness.”
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HarryStotle
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All humans share one nature.
There are many (billions of) human persons, but the same human nature.
That human nature, however, is iterated, or instantiated in discrete moments of time and locations in space.
God’s nature or essence is beyond space and time, not iterated or located, and, in fact, is identical to God’s existence. God’s essence and existence are one and the same – Ipsum Esse Existens. God’s essence or nature is the Pure Act of Being Itself, i.e. To Be.
Jesus has revealed that that unified act of TO BE, Being Itself, is personified as Trinity.
We, as human beings, do not have the wherewithal to comprehend what that means precisely because we do not grasp or comprehend or have hold of that level of being, nor do we as individuals with the attendant limitations of existing as discrete human persons apprehend what it means to be a Person in the Trinity of the one Godhead.
Our tendency is to reduce three to one or break apart one into three precisely because we cannot grasp the reality of the nature of God.
That would be explainable as a result of the fact that we can only understand human persons as discrete entities in time and space, and human nature as discretely instantiated locally in time and space. God, however, is not located in nor limited to time and space.
There are many (billions of) human persons, but the same human nature.
That human nature, however, is iterated, or instantiated in discrete moments of time and locations in space.
God’s nature or essence is beyond space and time, not iterated or located, and, in fact, is identical to God’s existence. God’s essence and existence are one and the same – Ipsum Esse Existens. God’s essence or nature is the Pure Act of Being Itself, i.e. To Be.
Jesus has revealed that that unified act of TO BE, Being Itself, is personified as Trinity.
We, as human beings, do not have the wherewithal to comprehend what that means precisely because we do not grasp or comprehend or have hold of that level of being, nor do we as individuals with the attendant limitations of existing as discrete human persons apprehend what it means to be a Person in the Trinity of the one Godhead.
Our tendency is to reduce three to one or break apart one into three precisely because we cannot grasp the reality of the nature of God.
That would be explainable as a result of the fact that we can only understand human persons as discrete entities in time and space, and human nature as discretely instantiated locally in time and space. God, however, is not located in nor limited to time and space.
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Agathon
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I AM in Exodus 3 is translated ego eimi. Which is what Jesus told the Jews.
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angelic06
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Of course, you are neither you or I are God, so what does it profit us to ask ourselves questions?
But God is the source of all wisdom. There is no one higher than Himself, and no one greater to swear by.
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angelic06
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The Book of Revelation is very explicit in Jesus’ claims to divinity:
’ “I am the Alpha and the Omega”, says the Lord God, “the one who is and who was and who is to come”.’ (Rev 1:8)
“Do not be afraid. I am the first and the last, the one who lives. Once I was dead, but now I am alive forever.” (Rev 1:17)
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end…I, Jesus, sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the root and offspring of David, the bright morning star.” (Rev 22:13; 22:16)
’ “I am the Alpha and the Omega”, says the Lord God, “the one who is and who was and who is to come”.’ (Rev 1:8)
“Do not be afraid. I am the first and the last, the one who lives. Once I was dead, but now I am alive forever.” (Rev 1:17)
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end…I, Jesus, sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the root and offspring of David, the bright morning star.” (Rev 22:13; 22:16)
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JanSobieskiIII
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Ohhh, OP is a Jehovah’s Witness.
Everything makes sense now.
Everything makes sense now.
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tgGodsway
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This is a great passage.
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Athanasiy
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The fresh article in Christianity Today, in addition to our discussion
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HarryStotle
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theMadJW
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thistle9h
God the Father = God
God the Son, Jesus = God
God the Holy Spirit = God
Fact: That is Three Gods
Old Spin: 1 God, 3 Divine persons in one God = Trinity
You are sadly mistaken. That is NOT 3 Gods. There is only ONE God - three divine persons. That is not an “old spin”. Even non-Catholic Christians know there is one God - three divine persons.
If you continue in your Confirmation Bias, you will remain in Triune Polytheism, thistle.
THREE DIVINE BEINGS- NOT ONE, as the Bible says.
God the Father = God
God the Son, Jesus = God
God the Holy Spirit = God
Fact: That is Three Gods
Old Spin: 1 God, 3 Divine persons in one God = Trinity
You are sadly mistaken. That is NOT 3 Gods. There is only ONE God - three divine persons. That is not an “old spin”. Even non-Catholic Christians know there is one God - three divine persons.
If you continue in your Confirmation Bias, you will remain in Triune Polytheism, thistle.
THREE DIVINE BEINGS- NOT ONE, as the Bible says.
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theMadJW
Guest
“Mad” as in “Crazy”!’
JW as charged- altho not a Watchtowerite, as many in my Brotherhood are!
JW as charged- altho not a Watchtowerite, as many in my Brotherhood are!
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