Who is the Prophet Mohammed?

[Red_Sox_1]

I appreciate your fairness, and I accept your clarification. It would be Mohammad and/or Bahaullah who claim to have the message for mankind, whereas Daler is simply conveying that Message to you, not that he is himself creating the Message through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Brendan_64]

There is degrees of truth in a great many things that many people believe, including within the religious beliefs of non-Catholics, non-Christians, and other belief systems. There is also degrees of truth within the beliefs of secular-atheists. The Catholic Church recognises this, because all that is good comes from God, so we do not reject anything that is good within the belief systems of others. This does not mean that the system they believe in is true, just that there is some truth within it.

As Christians we believe that the fullness of Truth lies within the Church that Christ created on Earth. If we believe Christ to be our Saviour and God incarnate as man, then it is difficult to see how it could be otherwise. As God created all men, and created men as good, then within all men lies a recognition (covered by layers of corruption) an inherent understanding of what is good and true. It is through this understanding that men, who have not been exposed to the message of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures, create beliefs systems that contain values that are good and contain elements of truth.

The Qu’ran does indeed contain elements of truth, but as Christians we would argue that these arise out of Mohammed’s inherent human understanding of what is good, along with truth arising from Jewish scripture, as well as influences from Christian scripture. As such we do not see the Qu’ran as a scripture resulting from divine revelation.

 

[yeezus]

There is degrees of truth in a great many things that many people believe, including within the religious beliefs of non-Catholics, non-Christians, and other belief systems. There is also degrees of truth within the beliefs of secular-atheists. The Catholic Church recognises this, because all that is good comes from God, so we do not reject anything that is good within the belief systems of others. This does not mean that the system they believe in is true, just that there is some truth within it.

As Christians we believe that the fullness of Truth lies within the Church that Christ created on Earth. If we believe Christ to be our Saviour and God incarnate as man, then it is difficult to see how it could be otherwise. As God created all men, and created men as good, then within all men lies a recognition (covered by layers of corruption) an inherent understanding of what is good and true. It is through this understanding that men, who have not been exposed to the message of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures, create beliefs systems that contain values that are good and contain elements of truth.

The Qu’ran does indeed contain elements of truth, but as Christians we would argue that these arise out of Mohammed’s inherent human understanding of what is good, along with truth arising from Jewish scripture, as well as influences from Christian scripture. As such we do not see the Qu’ran as a scripture resulting from divine revelation.

I think you have absolutely hit the nail on the head here. Despite my differences with Islamic teaching I can’t help but admire the way Muslims choose to practice their faith. The Muslims that I know treat their faith as a way of life - not just a belief in God.

Living in the UK is at times frustrating as secularism seems to be squashing religious belief.

 

[daler]

That isn’t the case in my experience. Our church is full of Protestant converts.

Well I was called through an experience with the Holy Spirit, when I was an adult, when I was not a Christian or interested in becoming a Christian.

I would dispute that. Belief does not arise from understanding. Belief does not arise out of an investigative search to acquire understanding. Belief is not an intellectual pursuit. Understanding arises as a result of belief, not the other way round.

Brendon,
. Thank you for your thoughtful and considerate replies. I would agree that true Faith is far more than an “intellectual” search for truth. However, God has given us mental capacity not that it should sit idly on the shelf to atrophy. Both a search of the heart to feel, and the mind to know, lead to us to an understanding of the world around us.

. Personally, I think it is a sign of progress when people move from an inherited faith to one which they have investigated, generally speaking. If, upon a broad and deep investigation they come back around to their original starting point, that is fine, for hopefully they have tasted of the spiritual richness and diversity of other cultures and belief systems.

. The Holy Spirit and Its movement is not confined to the Christian experience. While I felt it there, I also felt it with certainty among Native Americans in their traditional practices as well. Also, my associations with Buddhist, Hindu, and Muslim believers have confirmed for me that it is the same Holy Spirit at work in all of them.

. Part of the “religious experience” is association. What we associate with certain encounters naturally draws us to assume that this or that particular group or doctrine sits at the center of the experience. Only when we stretch and open ourselves to broader context of human association do we learn that such encounters with the Holy Spirit are not confined or restricted to any particular group.

. Similarly, when we study the Scriptures and traditions of other religions there is vast overlap which can either be attributed to coincidence, which is doubtful, or that they are rooted in a common Source.

. It has been asserted that “Muhammad got his information” from Jewish and Christian sources. This is one possibility. The other is that the same Holy Spirit which moved Moses and Jesus moved within Him as well. To accept such a possibility at any level requires a degree of objectivity which few appear to be willing to acquire. It is simply much easier to generalize, demonize, and move with the herd.

. Personally, it took me several decades to come to the conclusion that Muhammad, like Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, were part of the same continuing unfoldment of divine Revelation from the same One Source. My western prejudices were very strong as the cement had hardened around both my head and heart. In the eventual process of becoming a Baha’i that cement has crumbled into dust in the recognition that: “All the Prophets proclaim the same Faith.”

 

[Nelka]

Who is the Prophet Mohammed to Christians and Jews? Is he mentioned in Sacred Scripture or in any Jewish writings? If so, where?

He isn’t a prophet.

Just because muslims call him one it doesn’t make him one.

Just like when they commit a suicide bombing and call themselves martyrs it doesn’t make them so.

 

[Ontheway]

There is degrees of truth in a great many things that many people believe, including within the religious beliefs of non-Catholics, non-Christians, and other belief systems. There is also degrees of truth within the beliefs of secular-atheists. The Catholic Church recognises this, because all that is good comes from God, so we do not reject anything that is good within the belief systems of others. This does not mean that the system they believe in is true, just that there is some truth within it.

As Christians we believe that the fullness of Truth lies within the Church that Christ created on Earth. If we believe Christ to be our Saviour and God incarnate as man, then it is difficult to see how it could be otherwise. As God created all men, and created men as good, then within all men lies a recognition (covered by layers of corruption) an inherent understanding of what is good and true. It is through this understanding that men, who have not been exposed to the message of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures, create beliefs systems that contain values that are good and contain elements of truth.

The Qu’ran does indeed contain elements of truth, but as Christians we would argue that these arise out of Mohammed’s inherent human understanding of what is good, along with truth arising from Jewish scripture, as well as influences from Christian scripture. As such we do not see the Qu’ran as a scripture resulting from divine revelation.

Brendan,
Thank you for your statement! There are partial truths everywhere, but it is the fullness of Truth that religions are all about. Christianity is the answer.

 

[Ontheway]

Brendon,
. Thank you for your thoughtful and considerate replies. I would agree that true Faith is far more than an “intellectual” search for truth. However, God has given us mental capacity not that it should sit idly on the shelf to atrophy. Both a search of the heart to feel, and the mind to know, lead to us to an understanding of the world around us.

. Personally, I think it is a sign of progress when people move from an inherited faith to one which they have investigated, generally speaking. If, upon a broad and deep investigation they come back around to their original starting point, that is fine, for hopefully they have tasted of the spiritual richness and diversity of other cultures and belief systems.

. The Holy Spirit and Its movement is not confined to the Christian experience. While I felt it there, I also felt it with certainty among Native Americans in their traditional practices as well. Also, my associations with Buddhist, Hindu, and Muslim believers have confirmed for me that it is the same Holy Spirit at work in all of them.

. Part of the “religious experience” is association. What we associate with certain encounters naturally draws us to assume that this or that particular group or doctrine sits at the center of the experience. Only when we stretch and open ourselves to broader context of human association do we learn that such encounters with the Holy Spirit are not confined or restricted to any particular group.

. Similarly, when we study the Scriptures and traditions of other religions there is vast overlap which can either be attributed to coincidence, which is doubtful, or that they are rooted in a common Source.

. It has been asserted that “Muhammad got his information” from Jewish and Christian sources. This is one possibility. The other is that the same Holy Spirit which moved Moses and Jesus moved within Him as well. To accept such a possibility at any level requires a degree of objectivity which few appear to be willing to acquire. It is simply much easier to generalize, demonize, and move with the herd.

. Personally, it took me several decades to come to the conclusion that Muhammad, like Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, were part of the same continuing unfoldment of divine Revelation from the same One Source. My western prejudices were very strong as the cement had hardened around both my head and heart. In the eventual process of becoming a Baha’i that cement has crumbled into dust in the recognition that: “All the Prophets proclaim the same Faith.”

Daler,

It has been argued that one who follows all the prophets is a follower of none. Synchronism can be an interesting exercise but it has little to do with faith in God.
I agree with one thing you say. It is much easier to generalize and demonize every religion and move with the heard of pseudo-philosophers who strive for objectivity in religion. There are a lot of those around. They are all telling us that faith in God is medieval, primitive., etc. and that the only rational thing to do is to abandon our faith in pursuit of enlightenment.
We choose what we believe, and you seem to have made your choice. Allow us to make our own.

 

[Ontheway]

“All the Prophets proclaim the same Faith.”

Not quite.
In Islam the faithful are slaves of God.
Jesus claims that we are adopted children of God.
Quite a big difference!

 

[daler]

Daler,

It has been argued that one who follows all the prophets is a follower of none. Synchronism can be an interesting exercise but it has little to do with faith in God.
I agree with one thing you say. It is much easier to generalize and demonize every religion and move with the heard of pseudo-philosophers who strive for objectivity in religion. There are a lot of those around. They are all telling us that faith in God is medieval, primitive., etc. and that the only rational thing to do is to abandon our faith in pursuit of enlightenment.
We choose what we believe, and you seem to have made your choice. Allow us to make our own.

Dear friend,
. It is simplistic to reduce genuine patterns as synchronistic. Synchronism is deliberately achieved coincidence in a point of time. It is a forced set of facts upon a predetermined or desired outcome in order to achieve a result, usually out of prejudice or convenience.

. I wholly agree with your statement: “Synchronism can be an interesting exercise but it has little to do with faith in God.” This is very true, and again, speaks of convenience.

. Pseudo-philosohers leave pseudo tracks, and upon investigation, there is little original content. There is a wide separation between the words of mere men and the Word of God, and true discernment is necessary. This involves far more than an intellectual approach. Truly, the words: “Seek, and ye shall find” are a matter of the heart and soul.

. I don’t understand this statement: “We choose what we believe, and you seem to have made your choice. Allow us to make our own.”

. Does this mean that dialogue is unwelcome from other than an “informed group” to which you belong? This would be akin to a “whites only” dialogue about colored folk…

 

[Ontheway]

Dear friend,
. It is simplistic to reduce genuine patterns as synchronistic. Synchronism is deliberately achieved coincidence in a point of time. It is a forced set of facts upon a predetermined or desired outcome in order to achieve a result, usually out of prejudice or convenience.

. I wholly agree with your statement: “Synchronism can be an interesting exercise but it has little to do with faith in God.” This is very true, and again, speaks of convenience.

. Pseudo-philosohers leave pseudo tracks, and upon investigation, there is little original content. There is a wide separation between the words of mere men and the Word of God, and true discernment is necessary. This involves far more than an intellectual approach. Truly, the words: “Seek, and ye shall find” are a matter of the heart and soul.

. I don’t understand this statement: “We choose what we believe, and you seem to have made your choice. Allow us to make our own.”

. Does this mean that dialogue is unwelcome from other than an “informed group” to which you belong? This would be akin to a “whites only” dialogue about colored folk…

Genuine dialogue requires a certain amount of respect for opinions expressed by all parties. Your statement above lacks such. You choose a random and inaccurate definition of synchronism from Wikipedia to discredit the point I am making. You do it because you have no legitimate counterargument, so you call my argument simplistic. This proves nothing and shows your inability to formulate a counterargument.

Since you can’t provide any argument at all in reference to my note, you resort to slurs. “Whites only” and “informed group”? Really?
Your line of argumentation simply proves your inability to defend your position without hurling insults.
Too sad.

 

[PrinceofEgypt]

Not quite.
In Islam the faithful are slaves of God.
Jesus claims that we are adopted children of God.
Quite a big difference!

Source?

We are all the servants of God. Islam means submission and I think it will be a point of agreement among Catholics and Muslims that we put God’s will above our own.

 

[PrinceofEgypt]

Does he also embrace religions that are opposed to Christianity, Islam etc? does he also embrace ceremonialism (OTO etc.), setianism, satanism etc.? Are all faiths and religions deemed good, regardless of their beliefs and values?

Specifically God given religions were founded by the figures of Zoroaster, Buddha, Krishna, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, the Báb and Baha’u’llah. We do not have any official list of Manifestations though. Some religions like Sikhism are seen as founded on inspiration and not direct revelation. Like Muslims, we believe in unkown prophets who have come to the earth. There has been debate over known American Native “prophets” and their status in the Baha’i Faith. Joseph Smith is seen as a non-manifestation of no special status or significance. Lao Tze and Confucious were said by Abdu’l-Baha to be the the illuminators of their respective nations but not sent by God as specified by Shghi Effendi. Baha’u’llah defines what is satanic as the rejection of what is of God and the embrace of antithetical principals to God who is the source of all that is good.

In conclusion, Baha’is see some religions as having a questionable status (Native Religions), several major religions as having come from God but facing later corruption by humans (Christianity and Islam are at least reasonably close to accuracy unlike the paralyzingly theistic rejectionism of Buddhism and the loose theism in Hinduism), some religions as loosely based on inspiration (Sikhism), and some religions as explicitly rejected with no claim to authority (Scientology and modern cults).

I’m very unlikely to pick qualms with you for your religion. I’ll likely only speak when someone is attacking a Prophet (Jesus and Mohammed included) or spreading misinformation on the Baha’i Faith or Islam.

We are not Unitarian Universalists, but we do have an openness to acceptance of other traditions.

 

[daler]

Genuine dialogue requires a certain amount of respect for opinions expressed by all parties. Your statement above lacks such. You choose a random and inaccurate definition of synchronism from Wikipedia to discredit the point I am making. You do it because you have no legitimate counterargument, so you call my argument simplistic. This proves nothing and shows your inability to formulate a counterargument.

Since you can’t provide any argument at all in reference to my note, you resort to slurs. “Whites only” and “informed group”? Really?
Your line of argumentation simply proves your inability to defend your position without hurling insults.
Too sad.

Friend,
. I did not mean to disrespect you in any way, but to deflect an improper assumption on your part that the Revelation of Baha’u’llah is synchronism, which it absolutely and categorically is not. That this is a shallow interpretation does not mean that you are shallow, my friend. Merely that a particular statement aired does not conform to the truth. When such a thing is pointed out it should be reasoned with, not discarded as an insult. No one is insulting you.

. As to the comparison to a “whites only” club, please examine your previous statement and tell me what it could possibly mean, other than to impress upon certain souls that they are unwelcome, and to control the dialogue undisturbed by parties in agreement with the premiss that Muhammad could not possibly be a Prophet.

. You said: "“We choose what we believe, and you seem to have made your choice. Allow us to make our own.”

. Your last sentence clearly divides people into an “us vs them” construct, as does the preceding in the use of the term, “we”. Does it not?

. No offense, friend, is intended. Just an intellectually honest discussion. If I have erred in reason, please do me the favor of enlightening me, for apparently ignorance is upon me in your eyes, and I am blind to it.

. In consultation we should not be attached to “our” argument. Rather, by detachment from ideas as property we can better examine the truth as it stands on its own merits. Thus, in a discussion as serious as the confirmation or dismissal of the validity of a “Prophet of God”, ego should be set aside, lest it obstruct not only one’s own vision, but others as well.

.

.

 

[Islam_1995]

As a Muslim we believe that prophet Muhammad is truly the last prophet and the greatest thing that has happened to Islam. We believe he is a great man, and Inshallah may ALLAH grant his family and companions to the heavens Inshallah.

 

[daler]

Islam,
. So nice to have a Muslim appear in such an important thread. In the Quran, which I am currently studying, it clearly states that Muhammad (PBUH) is the “Seal of the Prophets”.

. What is an interesting problem which comes up is the expected coming of the Qa’im, or Mahdi, in light of understanding Him in this verse.

. How, may I ask, do you reconcile Muhammad being the Seal of the Prophets and the expected Mahdi, and the Return of Christ?

.

 

[Islam_1995]

I hope everyone can give respect to our great prophet and not speak ill of him, but just recognise him as a important figure to Islam.

 

[Islam_1995]

matkereta

The koran claims that mountains are placed on the Earth to prevent it from shaking. For example:

16:15 :

Back in the seventh century no one knew about plate tectonics. Mountains do not hold the Earth steady.

As you know there have been a number of violent earthquakes in Pakistan. Pakistan is one of the most mountainous countries on Earth. It should be exceptionally stable. It isn’t.

The fact that Prof. Press has for some reason decided to lend his name to this drivel does not alter the facts of geology. No reputable geologist would pay any attention.

Please let’s not have one of these ridiculous threads on the so-called “miracles of the koran.” You are free to believe what you want but there is nothing miraculous about the koran.

There is nothing miraculous about the bible, if your truly believe that the Noah of ark story happened then I suggest you get your head checked out immediately, and don’t forget there are many bible contradictions/discrepancies.

 

[Islam_1995]

Yes he was a major prophet, however we did not believe the whole world was flooded and somehow Noah gathered millions of animals onto one boat. Think logically and rationally could that of possibly happened, it is even been proven wrong scientifically. Btw that wasn’t a personal insult, as i have seen insults about our prophet.

 

[jakasaki]

Islam,
. So nice to have a Muslim appear in such an important thread. In the Quran, which I am currently studying, it clearly states that Muhammad (PBUH) is the “Seal of the Prophets”.

. What is an interesting problem which comes up is the expected coming of the Qa’im, or Mahdi, in light of understanding Him in this verse.

. How, may I ask, do you reconcile Muhammad being the Seal of the Prophets and the expected Mahdi, and the Return of Christ?

.

I hope everyone can give respect to our great prophet and not speak ill of him, but just recognise him as a important figure to Islam.

Can you please address Daler’s inquiry… Thanks!

 

[Brendan_64]

Yes he was a major prophet, however we did not believe the whole world was flooded and somehow Noah gathered millions of animals onto one boat. Think logically and rationally could that of possibly happened, it is even been proven wrong scientifically.

The Catholic Church teaches that the Book of Genesis can be read as an allegorical text. Our Church does not insist that it is read as literal. Events such as the Flood, and the Creation Story can be viewed by the Catholic faithful as either allegorical or literal. Personally I view such events, as well as the age of Abraham when he died (175 years old) as allegorical and not literal.

What is the Islamic position on the age of Abraham at his death?