Who is the toughest nut to crack?

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cmodrmac said:
The “True Believer”**** of any denomination is very difficult-many Protestants have valid points from at least a secular viewpoint-Jews have “tradition” - many people have had a true religious experience regardless of denomination -witness the addict who attends an evangleical Church and stops using drugs-what works for them works

I really find at times it disturbing to see Christains of one denomination try to “poach” members of another denomination - the catholic church (small c) is composed of all believers in Christ and salvation can be found outside of the Roman catholic Church

People change denominations for many reasons some valid some not:cool:
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Yes and no. From Dominus Iesus:
  1. Therefore, there exists a single Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him.58 The Churches which, while not existing in perfect communion with the Catholic Church, remain united to her by means of the closest bonds, that is, by apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, are true particular Churches.59 Therefore, the Church of Christ is present and operative also in these Churches, even though they lack full communion with the Catholic Church, since they do not accept the Catholic doctrine of the Primacy, which, according to the will of God, the Bishop of Rome objectively has and exercises over the entire Church.60
On the other hand, the ecclesial communities which have not preserved the valid Episcopate and the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery,61 are not Churches in the proper sense; however, those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church.62 Baptism in fact tends per se toward the full development of life in Christ, through the integral profession of faith, the Eucharist, and full communion in the Church.63

“The Christian faithful are therefore not permitted to imagine that the Church of Christ is nothing more than a collection — divided, yet in some way one — of Churches and ecclesial communities; nor are they free to hold that today the Church of Christ nowhere really exists, and must be considered only as a goal which all Churches and ecclesial communities must strive to reach”.64 In fact, “the elements of this already-given Church exist, joined together in their fullness in the Catholic Church and, without this fullness, in the other communities”.65 “Therefore, these separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”.66

The lack of unity among Christians is certainly a wound for the Church; not in the sense that she is deprived of her unity, but “in that it hinders the complete fulfilment of her universality in history”.67
 
Randy_Carson said:
The young Mormon missionary out on his bicycle?
The Jehovah’s Witness at your door on Saturday morning?
The muslim co-worker at the office?
The Jewish lady from New York who now lives next door to you?
The Baptist who thinks the pope is the anti-Christ?
The Cafeteria Catholic who uses contraception and thinks women priests would be okay?

And why?
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I think the born again Christians. They have a mind of their own.
 
Randy_Carson said:
Yes and no. From Dominus Iesus:
  1. Therefore, there exists a single Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him.58 The Churches which, while not existing in perfect communion with the Catholic Church, remain united to her by means of the closest bonds, that is, by apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, are true particular Churches.59 Therefore, the Church of Christ is present and operative also in these Churches, even though they lack full communion with the Catholic Church, since they do not accept the Catholic doctrine of the Primacy, which, according to the will of God, the Bishop of Rome objectively has and exercises over the entire Church.60
On the other hand, the ecclesial communities which have not preserved the valid Episcopate and the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery,61 are not Churches in the proper sense; however, those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church.62 Baptism in fact tends per se toward the full development of life in Christ, through the integral profession of faith, the Eucharist, and full communion in the Church.63

“The Christian faithful are therefore not permitted to imagine that the Church of Christ is nothing more than a collection — divided, yet in some way one — of Churches and ecclesial communities; nor are they free to hold that today the Church of Christ nowhere really exists, and must be considered only as a goal which all Churches and ecclesial communities must strive to reach”.64 In fact, “the elements of this already-given Church exist, joined together in their fullness in the Catholic Church and, without this fullness, in the other communities”.65 “Therefore, these separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”.66

The lack of unity among Christians is certainly a wound for the Church; not in the sense that she is deprived of her unity, but “in that it hinders the complete fulfilment of her universality in history”.67
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Perhaps the hardest nut to crack is the convert from another religion who, after much time, effort, and prayer, decides to abandon their original faith and become a member of another one. While it does sometimes happen, I think it is very difficult to “lure” such a person back to their original faith, especially if the reason they convert to begin with is the realization their initial faith is lacking in some way.
 
meltzerboy said:
Perhaps the hardest nut to crack is the convert from another religion who, after much time, effort, and prayer, decides to abandon their original faith and become a member of another one. While it does sometimes happen, I think it is very difficult to “lure” such a person back to their original faith, especially if the reason they convert to begin with is the realization their initial faith is lacking in some way.
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I agree. It’s like when someone’s getting a divorce from their spouse for good reasons, it’s very unlikely that they will go back and re-marry the same person once again.
 
meltzerboy said:
Perhaps the hardest nut to crack is the convert from another religion who, after much time, effort, and prayer, decides to abandon their original faith and become a member of another one. While it does sometimes happen, I think it is very difficult to “lure” such a person back to their original faith, especially if the reason they convert to begin with is the realization their initial faith is lacking in some way.
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I used to think that but actually it is here that I have changed my mind.

I have asked so many here what made you turn back to the RCC. They said that other faiths were never completely accurate on what they taught. And when they would ask the preacher etc a question he would get angry with them.

I was told the RCC was the only faith where Father was asked a question and if it did not know he admitted it, but said I will find you the correct answer if there is one.

Many Priests are supposed to know everything, How could that be when Christ himself said there was so much to be told that the world could not contain the books.

In the RCC faith you can never live long enough to know every answer or everything the is to learn about your faith.

My Dad died at 83 still learning and reading the bible everyday.😉
 
I believe that Gd appreciates us believing in one Gd. We aren’t praying to animals or the sun or the moon anymore. Different religions exist because Gd gives each one of us chances to find to him. All monotheistic religions (and even not only them, but others, too) share the core essence, which is to love Gd and your neighbor like yourself. If you have this you’re in.

Even before we made a family background check, I found that I wasn’t living my life according to Gd while I was in the catholic church. Every rule there was I kept so precisely that I even drove the Priest nuts, and I used to cling to it as there weren’t many, and also because I already sensed that I was made to build my realtionship with him through his commandments. But there wasn’t enough that I could do individually, there was a huge hole, and also I felt I couldn’t learn about Gd. One Priest even told me I wouldn’t have to know anything, but believe…all I had to have was faith. I cried.

I finally read the “Old Testament” and that was it. I remember how devastated I was over the fact that we didn’t celebrate Yom Kippur for instance, and all answers to my thread couldn’t console me as there was only one answer really: A duck needs a pond to be happy.
Now, I can really learn about Gd in schul and my life evolves around him and our bond is strong through keeping his law.

There was that one poster, a Jew who converted to catholocism, and he posted that he felt that there was something alive in the tabernacle and even before he knew the meaning of the Eucharist and the tabernacle. This Jew wasn’t observant before as a Jew and wouldn’t have had a strong relationship with Gd, but through the church he/she found at least a life with Gd. Both of us, this poster and I, were being cared for. Gd has so many ways of bringing us to him. If someone takes the wrong path Gd will eventually turn you around and lead you to your way so that you can serve him to the best of your abilities. This is what counts.
 
504Katrin said:
I believe that Gd appreciates us believing in one Gd. We aren’t praying to animals or the sun or the moon anymore. Different religions exist because Gd gives each one of us chances to find to him. All monotheistic religions (and even not only them, but others, too) share the core essence, which is to love Gd and your neighbor like yourself. If you have this you’re in.

Even before we made a family background check, I found that I wasn’t living my life according to Gd while I was in the catholic church. Every rule there was I kept so precisely that I even drove the Priest nuts, and I used to cling to it as there weren’t many, and also because I already sensed that I was made to build my realtionship with him through his commandments. But there wasn’t enough that I could do individually, there was a huge hole, and also I felt I couldn’t learn about Gd. One Priest even told me I wouldn’t have to know anything, but believe…all I had to have was faith. I cried.

I finally read the “Old Testament” and that was it. I remember how devastated I was over the fact that we didn’t celebrate Yom Kippur for instance, and all answers to my thread couldn’t console me as there was only one answer really: A duck needs a pond to be happy.
Now, I can really learn about Gd in schul and my life evolves around him and our bond is strong through keeping his law.

There was that one poster, a Jew who converted to catholocism, and he posted that he felt that there was something alive in the tabernacle and even before he knew the meaning of the Eucharist and the tabernacle. This Jew wasn’t observant before as a Jew and wouldn’t have had a strong relationship with Gd, but through the church he/she found at least a life with Gd. Both of us, this poster and I, were being cared for. Gd has so many ways of bringing us to him. If someone takes the wrong path Gd will eventually turn you around and lead you to your way so that you can serve him to the best of your abilities. This is what counts.
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So, you are saved by following the Law?
 
Kaninchen said:
That’s a Christian question not a Jewish question.

In other words, ‘saved from what’?
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Will you enjoy a pleasing afterlife as a result of following the Law?

If you fail to follow the Law to G-d’s satisfaction are you at risk of Gehenna?
 
Randy_Carson said:
Will you enjoy a pleasing afterlife as a result of following the Law?

If you fail to follow the Law to G-d’s satisfaction are you at risk of Gehenna?
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just saw that Kaninchen posted. There’re teachers that teach that not everone will witness the temple being rebuilt, but only those that mourned the destruction of the temple. Gd promised that we can always repent and be forgiven. However, I’m not thinking about afterlife quite yet. There’s a lot to be done here.
 
Randy_Carson said:
When someone who has failed to follow the Law properly in this life dies, what happens to him or her in the afterlife?
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In my opinion, he will go back to his creator. This is where all Jewish souls have to go back to one day anyway as we’re a part of him.
The Torah is perfect. Noone here well apart from a very few exceptions is perfect, and we all fail to fullfil commandments sometimes.
 
The question brings to mind Father Groeschel’s statement that he’d rather be a good Muslim than a bad Catholic. (And of course the reverse would be true too.)

Whoever of our hypothetical people is least interested in whether her faith is true or not, would seem to be farthest from God. One can certainly think of scenarios in which the Cafeteria Catholic would fall into that category.
 
504Katrin said:
In my opinion, he will go back to his creator. This is where all Jewish souls have to go back to one day anyway as we’re a part of him.
The Torah is perfect. Noone here well apart from a very few exceptions is perfect, and we all fail to fullfil commandments sometimes.
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And when the Creator, who gave the Law, asks the person why she did not keep its commandments, what will she say?

No one is justified or made righteous before God by the Law. All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. It is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

If you declare yourself to be under the Law, then you are obligated to keep the whole of it. If you fail to do so, then you are without excuse.
 
john_ennis said:
The question brings to mind Father Groeschel’s statement that he’d rather be a good Muslim than a bad Catholic. (And of course the reverse would be true too.)

Whoever of our hypothetical people is least interested in whether her faith is true or not, would seem to be farthest from God. One can certainly think of scenarios in which the Cafeteria Catholic would fall into that category.
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🙂 and also there’s a time for everything. When I wanted to know about Gd it was probably good that a pastor welcomed me first. Had a Rabbi told me: “Well you’re Jewish, you have too keep all these commandments, and you have to keep Shabbat so no football on Saturdays including the playoff games” … :eek:… I would have ran as fast as I could have run 😃 However, he let me enjoy watching the Saints win the NFC CG and the Superbowl 😉

Today, it’s no question. I miss out on all the preseason games that my Saints play, and it’s normal. It’s Shabbos so it’s normal that there’s no watching TV.
 
504Katrin said:
🙂 and also there’s a time for everything. When I wanted to know about Gd it was probably good that a pastor welcomed me first. Had a Rabbi told me: “Well you’re Jewish, you have too keep all these commandments, and you have to keep Shabbat so no football on Saturdays including the playoff games” … :eek:… I would have ran as fast as I could have run 😃 However, he let me enjoy watching the Saints win the NFC CG and the Superbowl 😉

Today, it’s no question. I miss out on all the preseason games that my Saints play, and it’s normal. It’s Shabbos so it’s normal that there’s no watching TV.
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A Jewish person cheering for the Saints.

Now there’s an ecumenical thought! 😛
 
Randy_Carson said:
And when the Creator, who gave the Law, asks the person why she did not keep its commandments, what will she say?

No one is justified or made righteous before God by the Law. All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. It is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

If you declare yourself to be under the Law, then you are obligated to keep the whole of it. If you fail to do so, then you are without excuse.
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yes, I didn’t oppose your mention of gehinom for that reason, we will get judged. However, we must go back and unite with the creator in the end. We’re part of him and must return anyway.
 
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