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AshleyBelle
Guest
Would you say they each hold a different type of significance, in reference to what Christ came to do?
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withwind
Guest
Have you meditated deeply on this subject yourself? I guess you must have. Why not sharing it? who knows that’s all we need to know.
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Usagi
Guest
Jesus gave His life willingly, of course.
The actual execution was carried out by Roman soldiers under Roman authority.
The Jewish leadership colluded to have Him killed, and bribed one of His closest followers to lead the Romans to Him.
All humanity is responsible for Jesus’ death in the sense that we are the sinners he died to save. (If you take the view that Jesus suffered not merely an ordinary crucifixion but also the burden and punishment of every sin of humankind, then we are even more directly responsible for His suffering with our every sinful act.)
It is true, though, that God was under no external obligation to offer the sacrifice, and Jesus Himself testified that he could have stopped the whole experience at any time. As an earlier poster argued, one might say that God was “obliged” by His own nature, in the sense that such an act is the sort of thing a being of pure love would do, but there would have been no evil or injustice in His not offering redemption.
I’ve covered just about all the bases I can think of there, UD. When do we get to see your take on things?
Usagi
The actual execution was carried out by Roman soldiers under Roman authority.
The Jewish leadership colluded to have Him killed, and bribed one of His closest followers to lead the Romans to Him.
All humanity is responsible for Jesus’ death in the sense that we are the sinners he died to save. (If you take the view that Jesus suffered not merely an ordinary crucifixion but also the burden and punishment of every sin of humankind, then we are even more directly responsible for His suffering with our every sinful act.)
It is true, though, that God was under no external obligation to offer the sacrifice, and Jesus Himself testified that he could have stopped the whole experience at any time. As an earlier poster argued, one might say that God was “obliged” by His own nature, in the sense that such an act is the sort of thing a being of pure love would do, but there would have been no evil or injustice in His not offering redemption.
I’ve covered just about all the bases I can think of there, UD. When do we get to see your take on things?
Usagi
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underdog
Guest
How about the Old Testament prophet’s revelation in regards to the death of Jesus Christ?
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underdog
Guest
Sure, I agree with what you are sharing.
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underdog
Guest
Have you spent time on a non-Catholic Christian forum site? These interdenominational discussions are not easy. However, we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us! You see, the fullness of truth is found in Christ.
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underdog
Guest
Look for a major Old Testament prophet. God rewards those who seek Him.
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happilycatholic
Guest
First, no one killed Jesus. He freely gave His life. He was in total control of it from beginning to end.
Nothing was taken, Everything was Given.
P.S.
This is not metaphoric it is Truth, literally.
Nothing was taken, Everything was Given.
P.S.
This is not metaphoric it is Truth, literally.
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AshleyBelle
Guest
So what would you say is the significance of each facet of our Lord?
How do we apply His model of salvation to our lives?
How do we apply each particular aspect of His life and death to the Christian walk?
The first being: How do we live, as He lived.
Second : How do we give of ourselves and die, self sacrificially as He did?
Third: What does His burial teach us in relation to the Christian life?
And Lastly, what do we learn about our final “goal” at the end of the race, from His ascension? Why did He appear to the disciples in His glory, but still with the wounds in His hands and side?
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underdog
Guest
Now that’s a great answer! There’s even more to it.First, no one killed Jesus. He freely gave His life. He was in total control of it from beginning to end.
Nothing was taken, Everything was Given.
He Who did Not Spare His Own Son But Gave Him Up for us all, how will He not also with Him Graciously give us all things?” (Romans 8:32)
“For God so Loved the world, That He Gave His Only Son, That Everyone Believing In Him should not perish but have Eternal Life.” (John 3:16)
“for truly in this city there were gathered together Against Your Holy Servant Jesus, Whom You Anointed, Both Herod and Pontius Pilate, Along With the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, To Do Whatever Your Hand and Your Plan Had Predestined To Take Place.” (Acts 4:27-28)
“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did Through Him in your midst, as you yourselves know –
this Jesus, Delivered Up According To The Definite Plan And Foreknowledge Of God, you Crucified and Killed By the hands of lawless men.” (Acts 2:22-23)
“By this we know Love, That He Laid Down His Life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the Brothers.” (1 John 3:16)
“For this reason the Father Loves Me, Because I Lay Down My Life That I May Take It Up Again. No One Takes It From Me, But I Lay It Down Of My Own Accord. I have Authority To Lay It Down, and I have Authority To Take It Up Again. This Charge I have Received from My Father.” (John 10:17-18)
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ralphinal
Guest
I have tried in the past and found it taxing and unrewarding. I do not do well with some of the common mindsets that many non-denominationals have, whereby intellect is a sin, science is evil, and both history and logic are of no avail.
Further, do not tell me that the pope cannot be infallable then damn me for disagreeing with you. Many non-Catholics hold themselves to be infallable when consulted about faith.
Likewise, do not say that you are guided by the Holy SPirit but anyone who disagrees is not. Proove it.
No, I will not return to one any time soon.
And Yes, Jesus is Truth. And to whom did he intrust it? ANd by what means was it to be taught?
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happilycatholic
Guest
Thanks.
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underdog
Guest
Ashley,
I would love to discuss all that you worked hard to share and post. But let’s stay focus on who killed Jesus and why first.
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Henning
Guest
Not sure about this but,
Didn’t the law from Lev 16 demand that one of the two goats on the day of atonement be sacrificed (the other being the scapegoat) for the sins of the people which was a foreshadowing of Christ’s atonement?
eg, 16:15 “Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the vail…”
I would assume when the goat was offered that it was sacrificed with a quick, humane act (eg, knife to the jugular) not some sort of sick, sadistic act of extended animal cruelty (scourging, crown of thorns, crucifixion). Likewise it wasn’t required of Jesus to undergo such a cruel and protracted death at the hands of the Romans. The cruel nature of his sacrifice was at the hands of evil men. But if the sins of the people were to be paid for, Jesus as The sacrifice had to die (lay down his life).
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underdog
Guest
God is so good to you to reveal this profound truth to you. Do you have anything else to share in regards to that Old Testament major Prophet on the subject?Thanks.
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underdog
Guest
Okay, therefore you can have empathy for me since you know what’s it like to be on a forum site that is different than your denomination. It’s not easy.
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underdog
Guest
Hi Henning,
I sure like your God is love and/or wrath thread. It seems very related this this thread too.
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withwind
Guest
Who hung Him on the Cross?First, no one killed Jesus. He freely gave His life. He was in total control of it from beginning to end.
Nothing was taken, Everything was Given.
P.S.
This is not metaphoric it is Truth, literally.
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AshleyBelle
Guest
Code:
I think understanding how his life, death, and ressurection applies to our life in Christ, is cruicial to understanding why He died, and "who killed" him:)He died, in short, because it was the Father’s will. As He prayed at the garden that this cup may pass… But yet He prayed that “Your will be done.” He didn’t die because it was the will of evil people, but rather it was the Father’s will that He be a perfect sacrifice and attonement for our sins. That His perfect blood, would replace the old, imperfect blood of the old sacrifice of the lamb… And HE would become our perfect, paschal lamb!
The father willed for Christ to die. This does not mean God “killed Jesus.” It means that in His perfect love and mercey, He became flesh, dwelling among us, and giving Himself for us. Only He could fufil this sacrifice, because only He has the power to save
So… I ask. how do we apply His sacrificial love to our own lives?
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underdog
Guest
Maybe we should ask… who ordained Him to die and suffer on the cross and why?
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