Who killed the liturgy? Who poisoned the Church?

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Really. I cringe in embarrassment when someone visits my parish, my orthodox incense-swinging parish. The folk music is awful.
At the local heterodox parish they use a guitar or piano. It really is terrible, I mean seriously. Then you have Eastern Orthodox churches who solemnly chant praises to the Lord God, Episcopal Churches who sing the old Catholic Hymns or at least old protestant ones, and Catholics who strum guitars to folk songs. I see a problem here.

I feel like everything is so watered down and I become discouraged, I converted this past Easter. Is there some campaign to keep beauty out of the Mass I wasn’t informed about when I joined the Church?

Is the church here dead? I mean, the teachings are so watered down in most RCIA, and one is often distracted when Sunflower and Moonbeam sing “Imagine there’s no Heaven” for the communion hymn.

I’m sad and disillusioned. The majority of American parishes are this way from what I’ve seen (and read). There is the occasional indult (for now) and a few reverent Masses scattered about each diocese.

It scares me. I know the gates of hell will never prevail, but they sure are trying.

I don’t want any more watered down theology. I don’t want the Planned Parenthood Girl Scouts to sell their cookies in the Narthex. I don’t want the Culture of Death that is being shoved down my throat, and the throats of everyone else my age.

Why do we, the young people and the faithful old, have to suffer for the immense errors of the 60’s and 70’s. When previous generations set themselves free of bondage, they enslaved generations to come with lies.
 
I agree with you on the sappy songs. I love chant and older songs. My parish is painful these last few months. We have a guitarist who does modern, upbeat sort of stuff and we all just stand there like zombies. It hurts to watch. It wouldn’t be so bad if we were all singing and clapping along. At least then it would not be pathetic. It is a real trial for me because I love to sing. It is so prayerful.

Really, they sing that imagine there is no heaven song? How inappropriate.:eek: That’s worse than “from a distance, God is watching us”.

Our RCIA is not watered down, however!
 
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Pug:
Really, they sing that imagine there is no heaven song? How inappropriate.:eek: That’s worse than “from a distance, God is watching us”.
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Nah, that was an exaggeration. 🙂

Everything just seems so shallow, liturgically speaking.
 
I agree that there really is a problem. I would rather see music banned altogether than to witness and hear some of the garbage that gets strummed in American churches lately. Music is a powerful force of supernature, and in the hands of evil it can be scandalous, or even deadly to innocent souls. Only holy music should be allowed – but barring that, none would be better than any.
 
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Pug:
I agree with you on the sappy songs. I love chant and older songs. My parish is painful these last few months. We have a guitarist who does modern, upbeat sort of stuff and we all just stand there like zombies. It hurts to watch. It wouldn’t be so bad if we were all singing and clapping along. At least then it would not be pathetic. It is a real trial for me because I love to sing. It is so prayerful.

Really, they sing that imagine there is no heaven song? How inappropriate.:eek: That’s worse than “from a distance, God is watching us”.

Our RCIA is not watered down, however!
Click to expand...
Wow, Pug, are you in my parish? Our RCIA is fabulous, and our priest gives incredible, edifying instruction that elevates and educates. Then we have our youth mass with guitars (not bad in and of them selves) and clapping (argh!!) and even hand motions (during the recessional which is supposed to make it okay) and very “me” oriented songs.

I’m having problems reconciling the very orthodox teachings of this priest, with what I perceive as the heterodoxy of the music at this mass, and to a lesser extent at the other masses.
 
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ames61:
and clapping (argh!!) and even hand motions (during the recessional which is supposed to make it okay) and very “me” oriented songs.

I’m having problems reconciling the very orthodox teachings of this priest, with what I perceive as the heterodoxy of the music at this mass, and to a lesser extent at the other masses.
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Hand motions. For some reason this conjures images of the hula.:whacky:

I wonder if the music choices are due to distribution of talent (no organists anymore), the priest wants to be relevant, the liturgy committee like the music, nobody can find music resources that are traditional, everybody but us hates traditional songs, nobody knows the music is lacking, or what?

I long for a good Veni Creator Spiritus a capella. I know a couple versions of the Credo, too. Awesome!
 
It’s getting really hard for me not to bring up despair in my Confessions. Maybe I’m not as faithful as some of you, but a lot of this is just plain making me sick.
 
A & O:
I also recently converted, (2 years ago), and kept plugging through a sickening RCIA program because I knew god was calling me into the Catholic Church. I traded enormously powerful, traditional worship at a conservative Episcopal Parish for sappy, sickening modern “catholic” music.
I have a friend now who is feeling called to come into the Church, and is fearing giving up her friendly, loving evangelical church family. I want to find at least a good RCIA program for her. We can deal with the music later. Does anyone know of one near the north of Boston area of Massachusetts?
There certainly seem to be a lot of us who feel this way. Why can’t we effect a change? Lord, have mercy!
 
A&O,

Christ is being crucified in His Church. Truth and error contend for the hearts and minds of the faithful. Priests are either decent, superficial, or rotten. Too few are honestly pursuing perfection in the spiritual life. The faithful allow television, popular music, talk radio and mindless gossip to fill their minds with noise and distraction. The salvation of souls has become, for all too many of us, less important than redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor. Earthly fulfillment has become for too many Catholics more important than fulfilling obligations and carrying crosses that lead to heaven. These ARE very sad times, but God is Good and He will provide for you what you are unable to obtain from others. Stay close to Him. Pray the Rosary. Read the lives of the Saints. Don’t despair … Christ suffered more desolation on the Cross than any of us can imagine.
 
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benedictusoblat:
A&O,
Don’t despair … Christ suffered more desolation on the Cross than any of us can imagine.
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And yet His mother stood by Him amid His sufferings, it seems to me that Mother Church is too confused to offer me consolation. 😦
 
And sometimes the best a good Catholic can do is just keep breathing. For a Catholic in the state of grace, suffering and desolation are the straightest and narrowest way up the mountain! As the Church bleeds and the smoke of Satan dims our vision we just take it KNOWING as Our Lady did that Easter will follow. And Joy.

We may be an “Easter People” but that doesn’t preclude us being despised, beaten, crucified and buried.

Benedicite
 
From the blog “Catholic Ragemonkey”
Code: 
          READING THE BCL NEWSLETTER, SHAKING MY HEAD
I actually meant to publish this post yesterday, on the Memorial of St. Pope Pius V, the wonderful Dominican Pope (why the Pope now wears white) who did so much to implement the teachings of the Council of Trent, and gave us the Tridentine Mass which we celebrated for over 400 years. However I was busy with two sections of First Holy Communions yesterday.

I subscribe to the “BCL Newsletter” (the BCL is the Bishops’ Committee on the Liturgy), and as I was reading the most recent one, I started to do a slow burn. The US Bishops, in their wisdom (read the sarcasm) re-elected Bishop Donald Trautman as the BCL Chairman. Bishop Trautman likes to make himself out as a liturgist supreme, but that would only be true if the concept of liturgy was only invented since the late 1960s and had nothing to do with the Divine. It was largely due to his political agenda when he was first the BCL Chairman, in the early 1990s, that relationship between ICEL and the US BCL, and the Vatican’s Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments went from bad to worse, resulting in the fact that there are many important, liturgical works which has been promulgated by the Vatican which we still do not have an English translation of. The two most distressing for me are, the Liturgia Horarum, editio altera (“Liturgy of the Hours” which was published in 1986) since as a priest I am celebrate teh Liturgy of the Hours everyday for the welfare of the Church, and the Ordo Celebrandi Matrimonium, editio altera (1990) for the celebration of Marriage. Rather the BCL seems more interested in cranking out things like “Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest,” of which we have had TWO editions published in the USA since 1989 (hmmm, maybe that is part of the agenda, to do away with the priesthood completely. Seems to fit since the two liturgies which priests are called to celebrate daily, the Mass and the LOH are two which has been so delayed in getting a worthy English translation).
(cont.)
 
Anyway, in the recent BCL Newsletter, it is noted that at the March meeting of the BCL it was decided to request from the Vatican a number of adaptations to the Order of the Mass in the new Roman Missal. These are all adaptations which were approved for the 1985 Edition of the Sacramentary (which we still are forced to use since ICEL is still, after 3 years, working on an English translation of the 3rd Edition of the Roman Missal). These include the seven additional versions of Penitential Rite form C (for Fr. Tharp, I checked my Missale Romanum, editio typica tertia, and the only form C is, using the English, “You were sent to heal the contrite, Lord have mercy. You came to call sinners, Christ have mercy. You plead for us at the right hand of the Father, Lord have mercy.”), four alternative intoductions to the Lord’s Prayer, etc. None of these greatly upset me, but the reasoning was laughable. I qoute, “The Committe suggested that since the use of these options has shaped the liturgical formation of two generation of Catholics, their disappearance from the Mass could cause confusion and consternation as people try to adjust to new translations.”

Now, maybe it is just me, but that seems like a load of something. First, let’s set aside the whole “two generation” bit (since it seems like 20 years is only one generation). Are you telling me that most Catholics would even know that there was a difference? After all, too many priests just make up the parts which they are mostly talking about (Penitential Rite, Intro to the Lord’s Prayer, Dismissal), so most people would not know what the “approved” variants are. Secondly, what about the hundreds of years of Gregorian Chant and Latin being an integral part of the liturgy of the Mass, forming truly generations of Catholics, and which the Second Vatican Council, and nearly every Pope since, has said must not only be preserved, but all things being equal must be given a place of pride and priviledge? Liturgist of the ilk of Bishop Trautman, did not show one ioda of concern for the “confusion and consternation” of the Catholic people when they ejected them from the Mass. As a result of their hasty ejection of the true liturgical traditions of the Roman Catholic Church Sunday Mass attendance has plummetted from over 75% prior to the liturgical changes of the late 1960s to less than 25% in the USA. It is only worse in Europe which seems to pride itself on being “post-Christian.” Now, I am not saying that we need to return to the Tridentine Mass. There were accretions, and need for some renewal. I actually believe that the Novus Ordo, if done as the Second Vaitican Council prescribed, with an appropriate mix of Latin and the venacular, and truly SACRED music is a beautiful, deeply spiritual encounter with Christ. Just look at the beautiful liturgies for the funeral of Pope John Paul the Great, and the Installation of Pope Benedict XVI.

St. Pius V, pray for us.
- posted by Fr. J.C. Maximilian @ 9:06 AM postCount(‘111496788734856691’); Comments (8) | postCountTB(‘111496788734856691’); Trackback (0)

ragemonkey.blogspot.com/

Sure sounds like Bishop Trautman had a lot to do with killing the liturgy.
 
👍 I couldn’t agree more…thankfully I go to a traditional parish…but I do not believe it is correct to say the errors of the 60’s and 70’s, because I truly do not believe there were any errors in the 2nd Vat Council…just errors in interpretation and implementation.
A&O:
Really. I cringe in embarrassment when someone visits my parish, my orthodox incense-swinging parish. The folk music is awful.
At the local heterodox parish they use a guitar or piano. It really is terrible, I mean seriously. Then you have Eastern Orthodox churches who solemnly chant praises to the Lord God, Episcopal Churches who sing the old Catholic Hymns or at least old protestant ones, and Catholics who strum guitars to folk songs. I see a problem here.

I feel like everything is so watered down and I become discouraged, I converted this past Easter. Is there some campaign to keep beauty out of the Mass I wasn’t informed about when I joined the Church?

Is the church here dead? I mean, the teachings are so watered down in most RCIA, and one is often distracted when Sunflower and Moonbeam sing “Imagine there’s no Heaven” for the communion hymn.

I’m sad and disillusioned. The majority of American parishes are this way from what I’ve seen (and read). There is the occasional indult (for now) and a few reverent Masses scattered about each diocese.

It scares me. I know the gates of hell will never prevail, but they sure are trying.

I don’t want any more watered down theology. I don’t want the Planned Parenthood Girl Scouts to sell their cookies in the Narthex. I don’t want the Culture of Death that is being shoved down my throat, and the throats of everyone else my age.

Why do we, the young people and the faithful old, have to suffer for the immense errors of the 60’s and 70’s. When previous generations set themselves free of bondage, they enslaved generations to come with lies.
Click to expand...
 
YOU HAVE TO GO TRADITIONAL!!
The Traditional Catholic Faith, including Gregorian Chant, Latin, Dogma, Vestments etc. etc. is all being preserved. You just have to attend your local Tridentine Parish. It is what you have been dying for. I can say after turning traditional, I am never going back!!
I would suggest looking at the pictures at www.fssp.org . That will wet your appetite for Traditionalism. But I have to warn you that some people are a bit off their rockers. They claim the Pope is not the pope, or that Vatican II taught this or that heresy, or that the Novus Ordo is an abomination. Avoid them, they are extremists.
Usque.
 
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