Who leads the protestants?

[vz71]

Why are the protestants coming into the traditional forum?
What is the agenda here?



I’m seeing this more and more, and sick of it.

What is to be sick of.
Regardless the intent of joining the forum, there will be a great deal learned about the Catholic church and the people in it.
And for many, that is all they need to decide to come home to the church.

For others, they are pushed further away…because they feel we are ‘sick of it’

 

[tweetymom]

The Body of God is the Catholic Church.

It seems the Body is led by the Head which is Jesus.

These Protestant churches are harlots (using OT terminology). It is only in a mystical way that Protestants are saved and are Catholic without their consent. As a Pope once wrote, you must be Catholic to get to Heaven. True, true, true. And it is not my problem if Protestants cannot grasp or accept or know this theology. God, our Father, calls whom He mays. I can be ecumenical and still be Catholic. I do not need to cater to ignorance and falsehoods.

The bottom line is that there is only one Body which is the Church and this One Holy Apostolic Church is CATHOLIC.

The Protestants and some so called Catholics are LOST SHEEP. Not my fault and not to boast but to state the hard TRUTH.

You are so welcome to your judgemental opponion. If I wern’t Catholic some of your words would not a Catholic make me. Quite the opposite.

 

[tweetymom]

I’d rather debate mainline Protestants than Progressive Catholics. Maybe the Protestant agenda is reunification, whereas the Progessives might be looking the opposite way. In any event, we should be charitable to our fellow Christians.

Amen to that! Couldn’t have said it better:clapping:

 

[tweetymom]

Why are the protestants coming into the traditional forum?
What is the agenda here?



I’m seeing this more and more, and sick of it.

Maybe the agenda is getting to know us and that our duty to be kind to one another not just Catholics. So I don’t understand what you are sick of:shrug:

 

[JacktheCatholic]

You are so welcome to your judgemental opponion. If I wern’t Catholic some of your words would not a Catholic make me. Quite the opposite.

My job for God is to be always Honest.

It is not to win converts. It is God the Father who calls us to His church and all I can do is speak the Truth.

If the Truth is not what someone wants to hear then they should remain a Protestant because they are still Lost. Only when God the Father calls someone will they see. That is how it is and was for me and that is what we are told in John 17.

I pray not for the world, but for them whom** thou hast given me**: because they are thine. 10 And all my things are thine, and thine are mine: and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am not in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name whom thou hast given me: that they may be one, as we also are.

I pray to do God’s work and not my own. I give all glory to God and take none for myself. If I am successful in someone’s eyes it is not my doing but God’s doing. No man can acheive without God. So, I will speak the Truth and speak of things that Protestants hold against the Catholic Church and be proud. It is not for me to change the hearts or minds of others but to be Honest with myself and others and inform them.

You know of the Bull for which I was writing regarding Salvation being found only in the Catholic Church? This is what Protestants use against the Catholic Church as if it some how discredits us. I believe they do this because of the approaches so many use to win Protestants over from the Dark side. I say we should be proud of all Christian history and know that the Catholic Church has never taught falsely and challenge anyone to the contrary. If they see then they have been blessed and if they do not then they are Lost. The Apostles did not drag things out but said their Peace and let people decide.

 

[Bluegoat]

Hang on. One can’t be part of something they know nothing about. The Celtics couldn’t be part of the Church and then the missionaries from the Church showed up to convert them into something they already were.

I realize we are discussing the English, but I wasn’t expecting this chat to devolve into a Monty Python skit. Then again, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

I think I am probably not quite getting what you are finding odd?

The Christian Church in Britain seems to have begun in the Roman occupation, perhaps in the 200s. The legend is that Joseph of Arimethea founded it which would of course be rather earlier, but that is probably unlikely. In any case, it grew and was relatively popular, it had it’s own customs and peculiar liturgies and form of governance based on monastic communities. (The customs and practices were not the same throughout Britain although the use of monastic centers as centers of power and administration was widespread.) They were active in the larger Church, sending their Bishops to participate in councils.

So, they were certainly part of the Church. But they were not really governed by Rome - the various parts of the Christian Church were all fairly independent at that time, the understanding of Rome’s role was not the same as it is now.

After the Romans left, there were a number of newcomers to Britain - invaders who took advantage of the power vacuum left by Rome. The population swelled, and the vast majority of those people were pagans.

The Pope sent Augustine on a mission to England - one of the primary purposes was to missionize the pagans. There seems to have been some conflict between the established Church and the missionaries - not everywhere and not especially violent - they seem to have recognized each other as members of the same body. Over time the different streams of Christianity came together, with many Roman customs replacing the British ones, but not entirely. Eventually the political arrangements with the Holy See also brought them under a more direct kind of leadership arrangement.

 

[Bluegoat]

Why are the protestants coming into the traditional forum?
What is the agenda here?



I’m seeing this more and more, and sick of it.

Ahh - the discussion is supposed to be about who Catholics think leads the Protestants? THat should be easy, just see what the CCC says. Or maybe what Catholics think Protestants think? I am not sure why that would be entirely useful, but why not. Some have a decent grasp, though there certainly seem to others that have some strange ideas about Protestant theology.

 

[theistgal]

Why are the protestants coming into the traditional forum?
What is the agenda here?



I’m seeing this more and more, and sick of it.

Why don’t you ask the CATHOLIC who started the thread in the first place? The Protestants are just responding to a question directed to them.

 

[tweetymom]

Why don’t you ask the CATHOLIC who started the thread in the first place? The Protestants are just responding to a question directed to them.

Amen to that and if you don’t want to know don’t ask:shrug:

 

[tweetymom]

Ahh - the discussion is supposed to be about who Catholics think leads the Protestants? THat should be easy, just see what the CCC says. Or maybe what Catholics think Protestants think? I am not sure why that would be entirely useful, but why not. Some have a decent grasp, though there certainly seem to others that have some strange ideas about Protestant theology.

Right on, on that thought. Jesus came to save the world not just Catholics:thumbsup:

 

[tweetymom]

My job for God is to be always Honest.

It is not to win converts. It is God the Father who calls us to His church and all I can do is speak the Truth.

If the Truth is not what someone wants to hear then they should remain a Protestant because they are still Lost. Only when God the Father calls someone will they see. That is how it is and was for me and that is what we are told in John 17.

I pray to do God’s work and not my own. I give all glory to God and take none for myself. If I am successful in someone’s eyes it is not my doing but God’s doing. No man can acheive without God. So, I will speak the Truth and speak of things that Protestants hold against the Catholic Church and be proud. It is not for me to change the hearts or minds of others but to be Honest with myself and others and inform them.

You know of the Bull for which I was writing regarding Salvation being found only in the Catholic Church? This is what Protestants use against the Catholic Church as if it some how discredits us. I believe they do this because of the approaches so many use to win Protestants over from the Dark side. I say we should be proud of all Christian history and know that the Catholic Church has never taught falsely and challenge anyone to the contrary. If they see then they have been blessed and if they do not then they are Lost. The Apostles did not drag things out but said their Peace and let people decide.

Jesus came to save the wotld not just Catholics! Who so ever believe in me shall have everlasting life. Jesus did not say only you Jack the Catholic. I know a lot of Protestants and have never heard anything about Catholics. In fact where I live Catholics and Protestants come together 4 times a year and have worship services. I don’t exactly agree with you that Protestants are on the dark side. We all have been blessed by Jesus. And sometimes you can be honestly wrong

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Jesus came to save the wotld not just Catholics! Who so ever believe in me shall have everlasting life. Jesus did not say only you Jack the Catholic. I know a lot of Protestants and have never heard anything about Catholics. In fact where I live Catholics and Protestants come together 4 times a year and have worship services. I don’t exactly agree with you that Protestants are on the dark side. We all have been blessed by Jesus. And sometimes you can be honestly wrong

When I said “dark side” I was being playful and it was meant to be a little lite hearted.

I also see that you are not familiar with the Papal Bull from about 500 to 600 years ago where the Pope wrote that one must be Catholic to be saved. The language he used is today twisted by Protestants to show something that it is not. Basically it says that if one is a part of the Body of Christ that they are Catholic. But I do not wish to get into a Theological debate with a fellow Catholic who does not know what I am referring to.

Back to “who leads the Protestants?”

There is only one church and that church is Catholic. It is only in the Catholic church that you will find Apostolic succession. It is only in the Catholic Church that Jesus has a Steward to watch over His kingdom here on Earth.

All Protestant churches are not under this Stewardship entrusted to the Church by Jesus and so they have no leader that is from Jesus. They are all Lost Sheep who have lost their way and need a Shephard. Unfortunate for them because the Church they all agree to hate is the only church that Jesus established to Shephard His flock and that church is the Catholic Church.

Now I must state that this is not my opinion. Again, it is not my opinion. It is a Christian fact established by God.

Now… many Protestant communities perform a valid baptism which is a valid sacrament and thus anyone that has received a valid Baptism is Chrisitan and part of His body and thus part of the Catholic Church (which is His body) in a mystical way. The problem is that after Baptism everyone sins and as all Catholics know even venial sin can cause us to fall from Grace with out forgiveness. So the question is, how does a Protestant remain in the Body of Christ after a valid baptism since they will sin and they have no Priest to confess to and they have no Eucharist for Spiritual food?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

tweetymom,

Here is the Papal Bull I referred to, Unam Sanctum:

newadvent.org/cathen/15126a.htm

The Bull lays down dogmatic propositions on the unity of the Church, the necessity of belonging to it for eternal salvation, the position of the pope as supreme head of the Church, and the duty thence arising of submission to the pope in order to belong to the Church and thus to attain salvation.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unam_sanctam

“outside of her (the Church) there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins”.

Please read it so you can defend your faith.

 

[tweetymom]

When I said “dark side” I was being playful and it was meant to be a little lite hearted.

I also see that you are not familiar with the Papal Bull from about 500 to 600 years ago where the Pope wrote that one must be Catholic to be saved. The language he used is today twisted by Protestants to show something that it is not. Basically it says that if one is a part of the Body of Christ that they are Catholic. But I do not wish to get into a Theological debate with a fellow Catholic who does not know what I am referring to.

Back to “who leads the Protestants?”

There is only one church and that church is Catholic. It is only in the Catholic church that you will find Apostolic succession. It is only in the Catholic Church that Jesus has a Steward to watch over His kingdom here on Earth.

All Protestant churches are not under this Stewardship entrusted to the Church by Jesus and so they have no leader that is from Jesus. They are all Lost Sheep who have lost their way and need a Shephard. Unfortunate for them because the Church they all agree to hate is the only church that Jesus established to Shephard His flock and that church is the Catholic Church.

Now I must state that this is not my opinion. Again, it is not my opinion. It is a Christian fact established by God.

Now… many Protestant communities perform a valid baptism which is a valid sacrament and thus anyone that has received a valid Baptism is Chrisitan and part of His body and thus part of the Catholic Church (which is His body) in a mystical way. The problem is that after Baptism everyone sins and as all Catholics know even venial sin can cause us to fall from Grace with out forgiveness. So the question is, how does a Protestant remain in the Body of Christ after a valid baptism since they will sin and they have no Priest to confess to and they have no Eucharist for Spiritual food?

I am very familiar with what you speak. I don’t always agree. What do they do when they sin they go directly to God and adk His forgiveness, and thats how they remain in the Body of Christ. God is the great confessor and I know He forgives with or without a Priest. And most take the Eucharist for Spiritual food. Sometimes Catholics really don’t know what is going on in Protestant Churches. I do know cause I was there for 20 years of my life and very productive years with Christ.

 

[tweetymom]

tweetymom,

Here is the Papal Bull I referred to, Unam Sanctum:

newadvent.org/cathen/15126a.htm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unam_sanctam

Please read it so you can defend your faith.

I have read it and I don’t need to defend in what I believe, trust me. I know Jesus as my personal Savior

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I am very familiar with what you speak. I don’t always agree. What do they do when they sin they go directly to God and adk His forgiveness, and thats how they remain in the Body of Christ. God is the great confessor and I know He forgives with or without a Priest. And most take the Eucharist for Spiritual food. Sometimes Catholics really don’t know what is going on in Protestant Churches. I do know cause I was there for 20 years of my life and very productive years with Christ.

As a child i went to a Presbyterian church and my mother was Presbyterian. I know protestant churches and Protestants. I have been Catholic a little more than 10 years.

So how does a Protestant receive the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ that we find in the Eucharist when they have no Eucharistic meal of this sort?

And if we do not need a Priest for confession then why did God give the Apostles the charism to forgive sins?

Your answers do not sound Catholic to me.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Tweetymom:

The Council of Trent (1551) declares:

As a means of regaining grace and justice, penance was at all times necessary for those who had defiled their souls with any mortal sin. . . . Before the coming of Christ, penance was not a sacrament, nor is it since His coming a sacrament for those who are not baptized. But the Lord then principally instituted the Sacrament of Penance, when, being raised from the dead, he breathed upon His disciples saying: ‘Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained’ (John 20:22-23). By which action so signal and words so clear the consent of all the Fathers has ever understood that the power of forgiving and retaining sins was communicated to the Apostles and to their lawful successors, for the reconciling of the faithful who have fallen after Baptism. (Sess. XIV, c. i)

Farther on the council expressly states that Christ left priests, His own vicars, as judges (praesides et judices), unto whom all the mortal crimes into which the faithful may have fallen should be revealed in order that, in accordance with the power of the keys, they may pronounce the sentence of forgiveness or retention of sins" (Sess. XIV, c. v)

newadvent.org/cathen/11618c.htm

The Catholic Church and it’s teaching. Not opinion.

 

[Like]

I am very familiar with what you speak. I don’t always agree. What do they do when they sin they go directly to God and adk His forgiveness, and thats how they remain in the Body of Christ. God is the great confessor and I know He forgives with or without a Priest. And most take the Eucharist for Spiritual food. Sometimes Catholics really don’t know what is going on in Protestant Churches. I do know cause I was there for 20 years of my life and very productive years with Christ.

So, if that is your believe, why become Catholic?

I have read it and I don’t need to defend in what I believe, trust me. I know Jesus as my personal Savior

Sorry, but that does not sound very Catholic.

 

[tweetymom]

As a child i went to a Presbyterian church and my mother was Presbyterian. I know protestant churches and Protestants. I have been Catholic a little more than 10 years.

So how does a Protestant receive the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ that we find in the Eucharist when they have no Eucharistic meal of this sort?

And if we do not need a Priest for confession then why did God give the Apostles the charism to forgive sins?

Your answers do not sound Catholic to me.

Sorry that I don’t sound very Catholic to you and you sir do not sound very Christian to me. I am a Christian first and a Catholic second. But above all I belong to Jesus. And your question to the Eucharistic meal, how do they not?
I was sort of raised a Catholic more less than anything. When I was older much older I had a great experience and joined a Pretestant Church.Am happy with my walk with Jesus now and then. I decided about 9 years ago to return to the Church of my childhood and I am still happy. The Church doesn’t make me happy or sad, it is my relationship with Jesus and if you don’t understand well I don’t understand you either and have no desire to! Like I said before if I wasn’t a Catholic you have done plenty for mr to decide not to.If I do not sound like a Catholic you do not sound like a Christian:shrug: Above all I love Jesus and am very greatful for all He has done for me.

 

[tweetymom]

So, if that is your believe, why become Catholic?

Sorry, but that does not sound very Catholic.

And Like if you read the post to Jackthe Catholic it is meant for you too. God Bless you both in your journey with Jesus