Who may receive communion?

[FrankLJ]

I understand that Orthodox may receive communion in Catholic Churches in some cases, due to having the same belief in the Real Presence (Canon Law 844 #3) I was told recently that Catholics may not receive communion in Orthodox churches. Can some of you Orthodox experts advise me if this is true, and if so, why? I see the Catholic Church allows it (Canon Law 844 #2).

 

[Fraz94]

You are correct- the Roman Catholic Church allows any Orthodox Christian to receive Holy Communion at a Catholic Mass, however the Orthodox Church does not and will not give Communion to a Roman Catholic at an Orthodox Liturgy- I know this as I used to go to Divine Liturgy with a Greek Orthodox friend on occasion and was very interested and got to know the Priest- I was made to feel very welcomed and loved there, they welcomed me with open arms- however we are not allowed to receive Communion.

The Catholic Church tells its faithful that if they find themselves in a situation where they cannot attend Sunday Mass that they can fulfill their obligation in an Orthodox Church (eg. you are in a small town in Greece and there is no Roman church), the Catholic Church has no problem with the idea of us receiving Communion in an Orthodox Church- as it is a fully valid Mass, with a valid Priest and the Orthodox have valid Sacraments etc. however the Orthodox Church will not give Communion to Roman Catholics. It is not permitted.

The Orthodox don’t receive Communion as often as we do in the Roman Church, I mean there is Communion at every Liturgy, and the faithful can receive, but the Orthodox are very aware of a good Confession before Communion, many don’t go every Sunday, they don’t have the same practice as we do- they go to the Liturgy but do not often receive Communion, unless they are in a state of grace and it is permitted by their Father Confessor- this was once the case in our Church (not understandable for us today) but before the early 20th Century daily Communion and reception every Sunday was not possible, these regulations changed in our Church- they did not in the Orthodox and this is still very much the practice. The Orthodox fast before Communion is also much stricter than in the Roman Church- before the Second Vatican Council you couldn’t go to Communion if you didn’t keep the fast and it was common that at Mass not everyone would go to Communion due to this, or the fact they had not been to Confession- my first hand experience of Orthodoxy and a very religious and intelligent Orthodox friend has taught me this.

I was going every Sunday at one point (but going to the Roman Mass at a Vigil the night before) and the Priest was very kind to me and spoke to me about being Chris-mated into the Orthodox Church…I was tempted, but stayed faithful to Rome and the Holy Father!

Hope that answer is what you are looking for?

 

[Vico]

I understand that Orthodox may receive communion in Catholic Churches in some cases, due to having the same belief in the Real Presence (Canon Law 844 #3) I was told recently that Catholics may not receive communion in Orthodox churches. Can some of you Orthodox experts advise me if this is true, and if so, why? I see the Catholic Church allows it (Canon Law 844 #2).

The Orthodox Church in America states:
For Orthodox Christians, the Eucharist is a visible sign of unity; to receive the Eucharist in a community to which one does not belong is improper. If one does not accept all that the Church believes and teaches and worships, one cannot make a visible sign of unity with it. The Eucharist is the result of unity, not the means by which unity is achieved. While many non-Orthodox see this as a sign that the Orthodox Church excludes non-Orthodox from the Eucharist, in reality the opposite is true. Because a non-Orthodox individual has chosen not to embrace all that Orthodox Christianity holds, the non-Orthodox individual makes it impossible for an Orthodox priest to offer him or her communion. It is not so much a matter of Orthodoxy excluding non-Orthodox as it is the non-Orthodox making it impossible for the Orthodox to offer the Eucharist.

oca.org/questions/divineliturgy/receiving-communion

 

[FrankLJ]

Thanks - it looks like there are two things here.

First, the fear that a Catholic would not have fasted/confessed properly - it sounds like pre -Vatican II would not be a problem?

Second, you must be in full unity with the Church (as defined by the Orthodox). This is interesting, because it seems that they see the Host as only properly taken in full unity with other believers. But there are several Orthodox churches; can followers of one Patriarch take communion with followers of another? If so, are not Catholics followers of the Patriarch of the West - the Pope? ( or does he use that title anymore?) I guess the question is: what degree of separation cause Orthodox to withhold the Sacrament?

The Catholic position, on the other hand, if I understand Canon 844 and the approved pamphlet on ‘who may take communion’ here at CA, is that unity is not so important as proper appreciation of Christ in the Sacrament. I wonder what caused this difference in emphasis: did it exist at the time of the Great Schism, or develop later?

Thanks to all for the very informative posts.

 

[Aramis]

The Catholic Position boils down to (1) properly initiated, (2) proper belief, (3) Ability to Benefit, and (4) permission. All four must be present.

To receive, one must have been validly baptized and having received valid first communion.
To receive, one must hold the proper belief in the Eucharist
To receive, one must have a reasonable ability to benefit.
To receive, one must have permission from the priest saying the liturgy. Who may be restricted by his church from giving it.

That whole ability to benefit is the tricky one - and that’s not the wording used in the canons, but it’s a clear part of the underlying rules. “True Spiritual Advantage” is the wording used in the canons. But also, it requires that no indifferentism nor scandal be created.

The Catholic Church applies this standard in both directions. For an Orthodox communing in the Catholic church, the ability to benefit may be absent on the long term - it’s not to one’s spiritual advantage to be excommunicated for a single communion opportunity. For Catholics communing in the Orthodox Churches, usually the churches do not allow the priest to give permission, and even when they do, it’s not normally blanket permission. The exact wording of some orthodox priests has been “You’re orthodox enough.”

Note that the Catholic church strongly encourages the priest not to deny communion unless he’s got REALLY good reasons.

 

[neokarny]

Thanks - it looks like there are two things here.

First, the fear that a Catholic would not have fasted/confessed properly - it sounds like pre -Vatican II would not be a problem?

Yes, pre-Vatican II would not be a problem AFAIK, but post-Vatican II’s one-hour fasting is simply not enough for any Orthodox Tradition. Even then, some Orthodox have much stricter preparations than others (with some varying from 6 hours before to the evening prior, etc.) including differences on confession requirements. E.g. some ROCOR require one to attend and confess at an All-Night Vigil the evening before Sunday Liturgy, every time one wants to commune.

Second, you must be in full unity with the Church (as defined by the Orthodox). This is interesting, because it seems that they see the Host as only properly taken in full unity with other believers. But there are several Orthodox churches; can followers of one Patriarch take communion with followers of another? If so, are not Catholics followers of the Patriarch of the West - the Pope? ( or does he use that title anymore?) I guess the question is: what degree of separation cause Orthodox to withhold the Sacrament?

There are indeed several Eastern Orthodox Churches that are in full sacramental communion with one another, just as there are (ideally, at least) 23 sui iuris Churches in the Roman Catholic Communion. This sacramental unity is what’s considered necessary to share the Eucharist, and so there has to be complete separation between one Church and all other Orthodox Churches in order to withhold etc.* To complicate this further, not all Orthodox agree on how to even view the Latin Church as such (i.e. whether its sacraments are valid or not, etc.), and its varying post-Vatican II practices make things even messier. It’s also worth mentioning that Orthodoxy insists on a unity of faith as a primary foundation for sacramental unity.

So, yes, I (Antiochian) can commune at any Eastern Orthodox Church, so long as I’m properly disposed to (as per the standards of the parish I plan to commune at). So if I were to go to an aforementioned ROCOR parish, I would most likely need to attend the All-Night Vigil just like the parishioners, which contrasts with the Catholic practice AFAIK (i.e. one follows one’s own sui iuris Church’s standards).

• • The only exception to this is the Oriental Orthodox, with whom many Eastern Orthodox would be fine with sharing Communion, as it in fact happens regularly, semi-officially and/or officially. This is because, for those Eastern Orthodox Churches that feel this way (like my own Church of Antioch), the Oriental Orthodox are pretty much fully “Orthodox” in the complete sense of the word and all it entails, whereas Catholics to some varying degree simply are not. So for those like us (and my own Patriarch), we tend to believe that we do in fact have a unity of faith with Orientals, which we don’t quite have with Catholics, and so we approach the former quite differently than the latter in terms of sacraments.

 

[MorEphrem]

I was told recently that Catholics may not receive communion in Orthodox churches.

Slight correction, Eastern Orthodox. I have never been refused communion at an Armenian Orthodox church and Moran Mor Ignatius Aphrem II (now Syriac Orthodox patriarch, former archbishop of the Eastern US) said I was always welcome to be communed at his cathedral.

 

[neokarny]

Slight correction, Eastern Orthodox.

Not quite, as Eastern/Oriental Catholics more often than not have a different relationship with Orthodox than Latin Catholics.

For example, Ukrainian Catholics will often commune at Ukrainian Orthodox churches (and the reverse is likewise apparently common), Melkite Catholics can often commune at Antiochian parishes (especially so in the Middle East), and so on. Like Aramis’ quote, you’re generally viewed (and I’m usually inclined to agree) as “Orthodox enough.” I don’t doubt that HB Patriarch John X would commune Melkites alongside Syriac Orthodox.

 

[malphono]

Not quite, as Eastern/Oriental Catholics more often than not have a different relationship with Orthodox than Latin Catholics.

While there are exceptions, the standard rule among the EO is “closed is closed” meaning that if one is not EO, one is not communed. The exceptions are mostly ad hoc on the part of a particular priest in a particular circumstance. By and large (except for the semi-formal agreement in the Middle East), though, EO bishops do not permit it. OTOH, the OO more often than not do permit it, even outside the Middle East, at least for OCs. But even there, it’s not a matter of general rule: one still has to make himself known to the priest.

 

[dzheremi]

What Malphono wrote above about the OO is very true. I have been told by other Coptic people that our priests here more strict than what you’d find in other parts of the Coptic diaspora, as Fr. Marcus has stated in no uncertain terms that no type of Chalcedonian (whether Roman Catholic, Eastern Catholic, or Eastern Orthodox) will be communed with us, and of course communing with them would excommunicate any person from our parish, assuming they had not received prior permission from both church’s bishops (and, from what I understand from talking to HG Bishop Youssef, such permission would basically not be given; you can even see on our diocese website where he answers questions about Coptic-Albanian Orthodox intermarriage and he warns the questioner that this will mean automatic excommunication for the Coptic side, since we are not permitted to marry outside of the communion…the Eucharist being likewise the tangible manifestation of our unity, you can guess how a Catholic would be received if they presented themselves for communion. It’s a shame that not all the churches in our communion take it this seriously, though I know that others have other perspectives, the Copts and Tewahedo being considered more ‘closed’ in comparison to the more open Syriacs and Armenians; these are related to differing histories and interactions with the non-Orthodox, of course, which any argument would not change anyway).

 

[neokarny]

While there are exceptions, the standard rule among the EO is “closed is closed” meaning that if one is not EO, one is not communed. The exceptions are mostly ad hoc on the part of a particular priest in a particular circumstance. By and large (except for the semi-formal agreement in the Middle East), though, EO bishops do not permit it. OTOH, the OO more often than not do permit it, even outside the Middle East, at least for OCs. But even there, it’s not a matter of general rule: one still has to make himself known to the priest.

It is true that OO seem more likely to commune non-OO, but IME even here in America it seems pretty standard for Antiochians (at least) to have looser views toward communing non-EO. My home Antiochian parish has a few Ethiopian families, all of whose kids are regularly communed even when the bishop is present. I’m certain he’s fully aware they’re not EO. Admittedly, most other EO Churches seem more strict than us when it comes to communing either OO or EC/OC, both here in the U.S. and elsewhere in the world. So this isn’t entirely contradicting your point for most EO, since Antiochians/Alexandrians are honestly a pretty small minority throughout the EO world (except for North America, of course, being second to the GOA).

Interestingly enough, an OCA parish I attend has had Ethiopians/Copts in the past whom I believe were communed (probably with the then-bishop’s approval, and I’m pretty certain the current bishop would easily have permitted it).

 

[MorEphrem]

It is true that OO seem more likely to commune non-OO, but IME even here in America it seems pretty standard for Antiochians (at least) to have looser views toward communing non-EO.

I’m not really sold on that. From my experience, the AO are not any loose in standard than any other EO - case in point, they refused to commune my bishop at a funeral of one of their bishops.

 

[malphono]

I’m not really sold on that. From my experience, the AO are not any loose in standard than any other EO - case in point, they refused to commune my bishop at a funeral of one of their bishops.

On the episcopal (or even presbyteral) level that’s not at all surprising. We really don’t do it either. But on the congregational level, things are a bit less stringent.

 

[hakop]

Quick question guys, So if I’m an Armenian Orthodox Christian, am I allowed to eat the Eucharist in the RCC if I believe in the real presence of Jesus in it, and inform the priest that I am Armenian orthodox? Will i then be allowed to eat? of course, knowing I am in grace and without mortal sin(I would hate to eat and drink judgement upon myself).
I would hate to be breaking any rules. I plan on converting but RCIA has not begun yet. Okay i believe you guys might be able to answer this to help me.

 

[RyanBlack]

Quick question guys, So if I’m an Armenian Orthodox Christian, am I allowed to eat the Eucharist in the RCC if I believe in the real presence of Jesus in it, and inform the priest that I am Armenian orthodox? Will i then be allowed to eat? of course, knowing I am in grace and without mortal sin(I would hate to eat and drink judgement upon myself).
I would hate to be breaking any rules. I plan on converting but RCIA has not begun yet. Okay i believe you guys might be able to answer this to help me.

The Catholic Church permits Orthodox Christians to receive Holy Communion.

 

[Aramis]

Quick question guys, So if I’m an Armenian Orthodox Christian, am I allowed to eat the Eucharist in the RCC if I believe in the real presence of Jesus in it, and inform the priest that I am Armenian orthodox? Will i then be allowed to eat? of course, knowing I am in grace and without mortal sin(I would hate to eat and drink judgement upon myself).
I would hate to be breaking any rules. I plan on converting but RCIA has not begun yet. Okay i believe you guys might be able to answer this to help me.

You would not be breaking any rules* on the Catholic Communion’s side*.

Many RCC priests may not be aware of the canons. At a Roman parish, you need not even inform the pastor - most larger Roman parishes, the pastors don’t know even half the parishioners, and even many smaller ones the pastor doesn’t know the majority.

If a Roman priest is unaware of the policy, direct them to “Canon 844 of the CIC” (code of canon law).

In an EC parish, most are small enough that you WILL be noticed, and should ask permission prior to reception - but most of the priests also are aware of the canon allowing the Orthodox to receive. The relevant canon is “Canon 671 of the CCEO”.

 

[hakop]

Thank you so much, brothers . I appreciate your responses sincerely, and I can hardly wait to go to communion worthily tomorrow to receive our Lord on His resurrection day.

 

[ronyodish]

Thank you so much, brothers . I appreciate your responses sincerely, and I can hardly wait to go to communion worthily tomorrow to receive our Lord on His resurrection day.

hakop,

A blessed feast of the resurrection! Christ is risen!

God bless the Armenians,

Rony

 

[RileyG]

Quick question guys, So if I’m an Armenian Orthodox Christian, am I allowed to eat the Eucharist in the RCC if I believe in the real presence of Jesus in it, and inform the priest that I am Armenian orthodox? Will i then be allowed to eat? of course, knowing I am in grace and without mortal sin(I would hate to eat and drink judgement upon myself).
I would hate to be breaking any rules. I plan on converting but RCIA has not begun yet. Okay i believe you guys might be able to answer this to help me.

To answer your question: Yes! BUT:
First, you are validly, Baptized, Confirmed, and have already received the holy eucharist, and already received your confession probably. (All practicing Orthodox Christians have). Is this correct? I may be incorrect, but don’t you have to make your statement/confession of faith without RCIA.

Technically Yes. BUT That would excommunicate yourself from the Orthodox Church.

 

[RileyG]

A Catholic cannot receive communion in the Orthodox Church. (Yes, there Eucharist is body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ) because communion literally means in-union. (Ie. Visible sign of unity).

Catch-22:
According to Orthodox teaching, IF a orthodox receives communion in the Catholic Church they has excommunicated themselves.

However, according to Catholic teaching, It’s OK if The Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Church of the East, Polish National Catholic Church to receive communion in the Catholic Church. Although, they probably won’t be willing to if they’re faithful to the teachings of their Church.

Correct?