Who? Me? Non-Christian? But I'm a devout Catholic!

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PhilipCal:
In my years away from our Holy Church, I experienced the Protestant approach to Catholicism, and it’s much as you describe it. On a similiar thread yesterday some very interesting points were made concerning Protestantism vs. Catholicism. In my view, it comes around to the Magisterium, which as we know is simply the teaching authority of the Church. We are not a “sola biblica” Church. We rely on tradition and the teaching(s) of the Holy Father. Many Protestants find considerable fault with this, and many refuse to accept the Doctrine of Papal Infallibility in matters of faith and morals. In the historical context, ask a Protestant what he is protesting against, and he’ll tell you it was the Catholic Church. It certainly wasn’t General Motors. In matters of faith and morals,in guidance with issues spiritual, I am far better off listerning to Pope John Paul II than I am to Jimmy Swaggert,or Oral Roberts etc. In fact, the very state of my immortal soul depends upon who I listen to. Devout Catholic? Believe in the teachings of the Church? You’re hardly a non-Christian. God Bless
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Very well said sir and this is my experience as well. All these Prots wanna argue about stuff that the Catholic Church teaches…but we all know that they’ve been TOLD by their “magisterium” (defacto) all these lie and misperceptions of Church teaching. exrc quotes CCC 2027 out of context and then denies that the context makes the case when I post not only the one he used but the whole section as well as the entire section (and footnotes ) on Merit. I begin to think that it’s a waste of time.
 
Church Militant:
Very well said sir and this is my experience as well. All these Prots wanna argue about stuff that the Catholic Church teaches…but we all know that they’ve been TOLD by their “magisterium” (defacto) all these lie and misperceptions of Church teaching. exrc quotes CCC 2027 out of context and then denies that the context makes the case when I post not only the one he used but the whole section as well as the entire section (and footnotes ) on Merit. I begin to think that it’s a waste of time.
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I think you may be right. The best and only thing we can do in certain cases is pray.

God bless.
 
How in the world can anyone say we are not Christian. :confused: That makes no sense at all, since all of Catholicism centers around Jesus. 🙂
 
Panis Angelicas:
If Evangelicals regard Catholics as Christians, then there is no need for them to witness to us.

In their minds, however, since we don’t hold to Sola Scriptura, we’re not fully Christian. (Kinda silly, I know! Because it’s just the reverse! ~ it is they who embrace sola scriptura who are missing out on the fullness of the Christian Faith, rejecting Sacred Tradition and the authority Christ established on the earth.) To them, Sola Scriptura is Christianity.

:love:
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One, not all protistents are Christians and neither are all catholics, denomination does not save you. Two, having just the Bible does not make you less intune with God “In the beginning was the word, and the word was God and the Word was with God” John 1:something. The Bible makes no indication of any other scripture but says that no one should add to scripture. Third Sola Scriptura is not Christianity I have no idea where you got that idea. And last, the Roman Catholic Church is not what Christ founded his Church on, In 1st or 2nd Peter, your first Pope, (doubt he knows that), says that Jesus, the stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.
 
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JDC:
One, not all protistents are Christians and neither are all catholics, denomination does not save you. Two, having just the Bible does not make you less intune with God “In the beginning was the word, and the word was God and the Word was with God” John 1:something. The Bible makes no indication of any other scripture but says that no one should add to scripture. Third Sola Scriptura is not Christianity I have no idea where you got that idea. And last, the Roman Catholic Church is not what Christ founded his Church on, In 1st or 2nd Peter, your first Pope, (doubt he knows that), says that Jesus, the stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.
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Thanks JDC, you prove the whole premiss of this thread. :whistle:
 
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JDC:
denomination does not save you.
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No one said that it did. If a ‘denomination’ saves you then there would be no need for Christ’s sacrifice. I never heard anyone on this forum make this claim.
having just the Bible does not make you less intune with God
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No, but it does make it less easy for you to know exactly what it says…all 30,000+ Protestant demoninations claim to be getting their biblical analysis from the Holy Spirit…soooooo, there are either 30,000+ holy spirits or somebodies getting it wrong…Which one then is correct? And if you say it’s yours that’s correct, are the rest of them ‘going to hell’ if they don’t agree with you? On the other hand, the CC has had a consistent message for 2000 years.
The Bible makes no indication of any other scripture but says that no one should add to scripture.
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Two points: 1) Give me a scriptural reference where it says that one should use ONLY the Bible for instruction in the faith or in knowing what one should believe.
And 2) It says in Rev. 22:18 &19 the following: I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in **this book **(my emphasis): if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy cite described in this book. NAB

The Bible is a collection of books not one long continuous book. When John makes this statement in Revelation, he is referring to the book of Revelation. This is a good example of how things can be confused and taken ‘out of context’ when one doesn’t have the Magisterium to help guide one. Besides, who would understand the books of the Bible better than the very Church who was responsible for codifying those very scriptures?
Peter, your first Pope, (doubt he knows that),
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Wanna bet? 🙂
And last, the Roman Catholic Church is not what Christ founded his Church on, In 1st or 2nd Peter, your first Pope, (doubt he knows that), says that Jesus, the stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.
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Your right! Christ didn’t build the Church on the Roman Catholic Church…there was no such thing yet…it was being ‘born,’ if you will. What Christ did do was this in Matt. 16:18 &19. He built the Church on Peter, the rock, and gave him the keys to the kingdom of heaven. He was also given the power of binding and loosing. So therefore, yes, when Peter speaks, later, of Christ being the cornerstone which the builders rejected, he is speaking with Papal authority about the fact that Christ is the cornerstone of our faith (not Peter). You’re getting your ‘rocks and their roles’ confused here. :whacky:

Sorry for the wordy post!
Lisa
 
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Lischou:
No one said that it did. If a ‘denomination’ saves you then there would be no need for Christ’s sacrifice. I never heard anyone on this forum make this claim.

No, but it does make it less easy for you to know exactly what it says…all 30,000+ Protestant demoninations claim to be getting their biblical analysis from the Holy Spirit…soooooo, there are either 30,000+ holy spirits or somebodies getting it wrong…Which one then is correct? And if you say it’s yours that’s correct, are the rest of them ‘going to hell’ if they don’t agree with you? On the other hand, the CC has had a consistent message for 2000 years.

Two points: 1) Give me a scriptural reference where it says that one should use ONLY the Bible for instruction in the faith or in knowing what one should believe.
And 2) It says in Rev. 22:18 &19 the following: I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in **this book **(my emphasis): if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy cite described in this book. NAB

The Bible is a collection of books not one long continuous book. When John makes this statement in Revelation, he is referring to the book of Revelation. This is a good example of how things can be confused and taken ‘out of context’ when one doesn’t have the Magisterium to help guide one. Besides, who would understand the books of the Bible better than the very Church who was responsible for codifying those very scriptures?

Wanna bet? 🙂

Your right! Christ didn’t build the Church on the Roman Catholic Church…there was no such thing yet…it was being ‘born,’ if you will. What Christ did do was this in Matt. 16:18 &19. He built the Church on Peter, the rock, and gave him the keys to the kingdom of heaven. He was also given the power of binding and loosing. So therefore, yes, when Peter speaks, later, of Christ being the cornerstone which the builders rejected, he is speaking with Papal authority about the fact that Christ is the cornerstone of our faith (not Peter). You’re getting your ‘rocks and their roles’ confused here. :whacky:

Sorry for the wordy post!
Lisa
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I would also like to point out that Christ founded no Church called the Roman Catholic Church. He founded the Catholic Church (not one official internal document of the Vatican calls itself the ‘Roman’ Catholic Church):
Ignatius of Antioch:
See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.
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This was written by Ignatius of Antioch who, in 110 A.D., was martyred in the colosseum at Rome. He wrote letters to Mary, John, and was the 2nd bishop of Antioch. ‘Roman’ Catholic Church was a name invented by the Anglicans who wished to still be called Catholics, after having become schismatics and later Protestants.

Proof of Catholicism from Sacred Scripture: scripturecatholic.com/
Proof of Catholicism from Sacred Tradition:
earlychurchfathers.org/
 
Church Militant:
I know that most of my Prot friends will target a Catholic for evangelism as if they are non-Christian. It has led to some pointed discussions but most understand now. Having also been one of those “witnessing” types for over 30 years, I reserve the right to turn around and offer them the chance to come into full communion w/the one true church.( :rotfl: ). All Prots seem to hold A/C opinions to some degree, but not all are nasty about it. (Deo gratias!)

Most Prots see us as non-evangelistic, which is just ignorance because they are unaware of all the apostolates that work to spread the faith. (Like the great booklets by the Knights of Columbus!). Most have no concept of catechesis, which is one reason they are so often confused about what they really believe as well as what we believe. They seem literally paranoid of any source other than the Bible (and their own personal favorite translation thereof to boot.) which leads most of them to ignore valid historical sources concerning Christianity. Most have virtually NO idea where their own particular denom came from or who defined what their doctrines are.

I used to hold to Sola Scriptura & Sola Fide, but upon closer examination concluded that they are a new invention that the early church didn’t hold and that (w/all due respect to you non-Catholics out there. Put that flamethrower down please…) is not supported by either scripture or historic Sacred Tradition. Hence…I returned to the Faith…and study to show myself approved and I’m always ready to give a reason for the hope that is in me. :banghead: :whacky: :bigyikes:
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Did you ever lead anyone to Christ when you were an Evangelical?
 
ya know at the rates this threads going :rolleyes:

Heavens probably going to be full of 7th Day Adventists :eek:

Because everyone will be arguing whos right

and miss the train

( Train is a bit of poetic license ) 🙂

( if theres inside jokes there can be poetic license 😉
 
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BlackKnight:
How in the world can anyone say we are not Christian. :confused: That makes no sense at all, since all of Catholicism centers around Jesus. 🙂
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This is what I’ve been told: * Because we do not trust Jesus solely for our salvation because we believe works play a part in it. * Sometimes this is a misunderstanding of ‘works’ and they think we think we ‘earn’ our salvation - but sometimes it isn’t a misunderstanding - they just flat-out disagree.
 
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Alfie:
Did you ever lead anyone to Christ when you were an Evangelical?
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As a matter of fact I did…and I have not stopped since I returned to the faith. Soul winning is part and parcel with being a believer. (Didn’t you read that part of my testimony? )

Matthew 28:18-20
“18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. 19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”
Pax tecum,
 
Kitty Chan:
ya know at the rates this threads going :rolleyes:

Heavens probably going to be full of 7th Day Adventists :eek:

Because everyone will be arguing whos right

and miss the train

( Train is a bit of poetic license ) 🙂

( if theres inside jokes there can be poetic license 😉
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Konichiwa Nekochan, Oh Genki desu ka.
Not if we get busy about our Father’s business…
**Elzee **
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Code: 
Quote:
This is what I’ve been told: Because we do not trust Jesus solely for our salvation because we believe works play a part in it. Sometimes this is a misunderstanding of ‘works’ and they think we think we ‘earn’ our salvation - but sometimes it isn’t a misunderstanding - they just flat-out disagree.Yet with all the things that most n-Cs consider “peripheral doctrines” that are not essential to salvation (like Baptism! :eek: ) you’d think they’d see us as every bit as Christian as the next church member… I mean…so far as I can tell we have all the “core” doctrines they hold so dear. :confused:
Pax vobsicum,
 
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Alfie:
Did you ever lead anyone to Christ when you were an Evangelical?
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I’m not sure what that question is trying to accomplish? I was myself Evangelical my whole life until recently. I, too, led others to Christ, but there were many, many fellow Evangelicals who never took that part of the Christian life seriously, they just didn’t even think about it. They wouldn’t have known when the Holy Spirit was opening a door if he smacked them in the face with it.

So this is not an Evangelical vs. Catholicism question, it is a question of being a vigilant Christian or a non-vigilant Christian, irrespective of church affiliation.
 
Wow CM! you never fail to impress me!

Anata wa nihongo ga hanashimaska?

I am not sure if that is 100% correct, I have few people to practice my Japanese with.

In Christ, so desu
Scylla
 
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scylla:
Wow CM! you never fail to impress me!

Anata wa nihongo ga hanashimaska?

I am not sure if that is 100% correct, I have few people to practice my Japanese with.

In Christ, so desu
Scylla
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Hai, sukoshi o hanishimasu. Anata ka. 😃
 
Hai, sukoshi too hanashimasu, sukoshi, sukoshi. 🙂

Got your PM
Thanks

Watashi wa Christian too desu, hai soo desu. Honto wa! Watashi no Catholic wa Christian desu.
(is that right?)

God Bless
Scylla
 
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