Who needs yoga?

[rinnie]

Good Afternoon Rinnie: Any of the practices that apply to yoga can be done with a devotion to God in whatever form the practitioner chooses. A lot of Yoga is done with ambient music for instance. Ambient music has no words. Neither does classical sitar. Music has an effect on the mind as do yoga poses. A calmed mind can focus on whatever it is you want to focus on. Breathing and meditation can be done with whatever intent you like as well. Connecting with God and yourself and the world around us is not a sectarian affair. My position has always been that God is inherent and embedded in all things. What a person calls God or visualizes God as is largely a matter of cultural context. A Catholic can insert a Catholic context right into any yoga practice. The Rosary for instance is a form of mala. If you want to move more deeply into a rosary, yogic practice can help a person to concentrate more intently on the 15 mysteries, and help a person to sit still long enough to do 15 decades instead of 5 in a sitting, without losing focus or getting distracted. Breathing in and out with the name of Christ on ones breath can create a connective experience of the one you are thinking of. That is mantra.

Now for a Catholic like myself, I am unable to think of God outside of the contexts I grew up with. I cannot for instance think of a Hindu deity when I connect with God. My relationship with God is inextricable from the culture I was raised in. But where there are practices that can enhance my experience of God as a Catholic, I am compelled to try them. And for me they work very well. I would not go so far as to say that they would do the same for everyone or that such things are for everyone. I simply think people should practice what works for them as fully as they are able.

Thank you,
Gary

But the problem is there is a lot of people who truly don’t understand about the Hindu deity and could welcome it into their lives without even knowing it.

You have to be quite grounded in your faith is the point I am making.

Maybe we need to make a Catholic version of these stretches and call it the Catholic way.

The problem as I try to state though is new age is what a lot of this is called and there is usually problems that can arise, especially for a Catholic who do not truly know their faith.

The emptying of ones mind seems so simple, but as Catholic’s we know our mind should always be Christ Centered.

It has been told to me by too many that when you go to Yoga for as stated simple stretches, many are looking also for something else, usually something Spiritual, and that’s when many get sucked into the cult and the trouble begins.

As stated not all, but it can be dangerous, and that is why the Church suggests to stay away.

 

[rinnie]

I guess for me, yoga means the eastern philosophical and religious ideas that are yoga. If it isn’t that, it isn’t yoga.

Stretching exercises while listening to music is not yoga, not any more than eating a peanut butter sandwich is receiving communion.

The difficulty is, finding a stretching class that isn’t, yoga. Or a westernized new age version of yoga. Both of which are going to incorporate non-Christian ideas and beliefs. I haven’t seen a yoga studio that doesn’t incorporate chakras and doesn’t have a statue of a Hindu God in it somewhere. Granted, some of the time the statues are decorative only, but still. I am uncomfortable practicing stretching exercises in front of a Vishnu meditation statue (Buddha believed to be his 9th avatar) with a chakra poster on the side.

Exactly. And why a statue of Buddha? Just like if you walk into a Catholic Church you will be surrounded by Statues of Christ and his leaders because that is who we follow.

We follow the teachings of Christ given to us by his leaders.

We get inner peace when we are surrounded by the statues around us, simply for what they resemble.

The Blessed Mother resembles the Mother of Our God. The Cross, with Christ on it reminds us of his love for us and our sins that cause his suffering. It helps us to want to be more kind, more like him.

When someone goes past my house and they see the Statue of the Blessed Mother they know I am Catholic, or believe I am.

The Statue is there for a reason, it defines who I am, what I believe, what my faith is.

There would be no reason for me to have Buddha. I don’t believe in his teaching’s or faith.

 

[lutheran_farmer]

I think a Catholic stretching class is a great idea! we could use yoga poses with our own names.

I could think of some real creative, Catholic friendly names for some poses.

Here’s a link with common poses:

buzzfeed.com/mattortile/11-beginners-yoga-poses-to-help-you-get-started

Let’s see…

1. mountain pose = praying really hard
2. downward facing dog = tripped over the pew
3. warrior pose = Father Junipero Serra discovers the SF Bay
4. tree pose = dropped the bible on my toe while praying
5. bridge pose = penance assigned after reconciliation
6. triangle pose = fallen crucifix
7. seated twist = person in pew behind me has juicy gossip
8. upward facing dog = tried to kneel but knees failed
9. pigeon pose = praying but one leg fell asleep
10. crow pose = burned my feet
11. childs pose = praying like a child

 

[FCEGM]

But the problem is there is a lot of people who truly don’t understand about the Hindu deity and could welcome it into their lives without even knowing it.

You have to be quite grounded in your faith is the point I am making.

Maybe we need to make a Catholic version of these stretches and call it the Catholic way.

The problem as I try to state though is new age is what a lot of this is called and there is usually problems that can arise, especially for a Catholic who do not truly know their faith.

The emptying of ones mind seems so simple, but as Catholic’s we know our mind should always be Christ Centered.

It has been told to me by too many that when you go to Yoga for as stated simple stretches, many are looking also for something else, usually something Spiritual, and that’s when many get sucked into the cult and the trouble begins.

As stated not all, but it can be dangerous, and that is why the Church suggests to stay away.

Exactly right, Rinnie.

There is something very wrong in emptying one’s mind. We can’t assume that having an “empty mind” will allow only God to enter. That is the danger. Our minds were created not to be vacuums just waiting for anything to pop in; they were created to know God. If our mind is empty it is an easy target for forces inimicle to Him. This is why St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Jesus emphasize love for the person of Jesus is central in all stages of our lives of prayer. So when one is drawn by grace and fidelity to the movement of God in the soul toward contemplation one isn’t encountering emptiness, but in the darkness of faith is meeting the One Who is more present to oneself than oneself is present to oneself.

It is not in prayer that the self-emptying is to be pursued, but in the life of the will, i.e., in the virtues to be accomplished: denial of self is to be of the senses and passions and pride of mind, and this follows essentially from the goal, which is not union of consciousness with the energy of the cosmos behind all the definite manifestations seen as an illusion, but rather union of love with the Trinity of Divine Persons dwelling within by grace, a union of wills. Self-emptying of the will of desires contrary to or besides the love of God is the task.

St. John of the Cross is quite clear that we can only bring ourselves by the self-emptying of our wills (not our minds) to the edge of contemplation but that it is God Who suspends the faculties that they may learn a new way of living in Him.

 

[Porknpie]

But the problem is there is a lot of people who truly don’t understand about the Hindu deity and could welcome it into their lives without even knowing it.

**Maybe we need to make a Catholic version of these stretches and call it the Catholic way.
**

:bowdown2:

 

[rinnie]

Exactly right, Rinnie.

There is something very wrong in emptying one’s mind. We can’t assume that having an “empty mind” will allow only God to enter. That is the danger. Our minds were created not to be vacuums just waiting for anything to pop in; they were created to know God. If our mind is empty it is an easy target for forces inimicle to Him. This is why St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Jesus emphasize love for the person of Jesus is central in all stages of our lives of prayer. So when one is drawn by grace and fidelity to the movement of God in the soul toward contemplation one isn’t encountering emptiness, but in the darkness of faith is meeting the One Who is more present to oneself than oneself is present to oneself.

It is not in prayer that the self-emptying is to be pursued, but in the life of the will, i.e., in the virtues to be accomplished: denial of self is to be of the senses and passions and pride of mind, and this follows essentially from the goal, which is not union of consciousness with the energy of the cosmos behind all the definite manifestations seen as an illusion, but rather union of love with the Trinity of Divine Persons dwelling within by grace, a union of wills. Self-emptying of the will of desires contrary to or besides the love of God is the task.

St. John of the Cross is quite clear that we can only bring ourselves by the self-emptying of our wills (not our minds) to the edge of contemplation but that it is God Who suspends the faculties that they may learn a new way of living in Him.

And you know the saying when you empty the mind of God it leaves a clear path for the devil to enter!

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Exactly right, Rinnie.

There is something very wrong in emptying one’s mind. We can’t assume that having an “empty mind” will allow only God to enter. That is the danger. Our minds were created not to be vacuums just waiting for anything to pop in; they were created to know God. If our mind is empty it is an easy target for forces inimicle to Him. This is why St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Jesus emphasize love for the person of Jesus is central in all stages of our lives of prayer. So when one is drawn by grace and fidelity to the movement of God in the soul toward contemplation one isn’t encountering emptiness, but in the darkness of faith is meeting the One Who is more present to oneself than oneself is present to oneself.

It is not in prayer that the self-emptying is to be pursued, but in the life of the will, i.e., in the virtues to be accomplished: denial of self is to be of the senses and passions and pride of mind, and this follows essentially from the goal, which is not union of consciousness with the energy of the cosmos behind all the definite manifestations seen as an illusion, but rather union of love with the Trinity of Divine Persons dwelling within by grace, a union of wills. Self-emptying of the will of desires contrary to or besides the love of God is the task.

St. John of the Cross is quite clear that we can only bring ourselves by the self-emptying of our wills (not our minds) to the edge of contemplation but that it is God Who suspends the faculties that they may learn a new way of living in Him.

I don’t think you have the full intent of St John. Yes, love is preliminary but there is more danger of the the devil tampering with us through our thoughts and images. See Ascent of Mt Carmel Book 3, chapter 4 #1 p 260

“For the devil has no power over the soul unless it be through the operations of its faculties, principally by means of knowledge, whereupon depend almost all the other operations of the other faculties. Wherefore, if the memory be annihilated with respect to them, the devil can do naught; for he finds no foothold, and without a foothold he is powerless.”

How then do you interpret his meaning of “annihilation”? I would also be interested in your (name removed by moderator)ut on the other thread about St John.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=894914

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

From Rinnie: But the problem is there is a lot of people who truly don’t understand about the Hindu deity and could welcome it into their lives without even knowing it.

Good Evening Rinnie: Hindu deities are rather hard to miss, although I have learned over time that there are a lot of people who can get their wires crossed on just about anything.

You have to be quite grounded in your faith is the point I am making.

Yes, that is helpful.

Maybe we need to make a Catholic version of these stretches and call it the Catholic way.

That’s pretty much what I do, but I cant make recommendations for anyone else.

The problem as I try to state though is new age is what a lot of this is called and there is usually problems that can arise, especially for a Catholic who do not truly know their faith.

Catholics who do not truly know their faith have fundamental issues to address already.

The emptying of ones mind seems so simple, but as Catholic’s we know our mind should always be Christ Centered.

If one’s mind is full of clutter, it should become receptive to reality once the clutter is removed. I do not think that Christ is to be found in the clutter. He is more likely found in the clarity.

It has been told to me by too many that when you go to Yoga for as stated simple stretches, many are looking also for something else, usually something Spiritual, and that’s when many get sucked into the cult and the trouble begins.

Most everyone I have met is looking for something else. Even those who say they are steadfast tend to be desperately looking for assuredness of their steadfastness. Usually they are the ones who are most rigid about how they understand God and the world around them. Everyone wants some certainty, but there really isn’t a lot of that to go around if we’re honest with ourselves.

As stated not all, but it can be dangerous, and that is why the Church suggests to stay away.

Yoga comes from what we in the west call Hinduism, but in reality there is no such religion. It is a term coined by the British Empire when they took over the sub continent. All there really is in India is an assortment of belief systems that basically teach that God is in what form you find Him/Her. This does not preclude Christ, so if you end up worshiping an Indian deity after taking a yoga class, it probably means you weren’t all that connected with Christ in the first place. Because you can worship Christ in Hinduism as much as you can anything else.

This is an interesting discussion by the way. As a disclaimer, I am not promoting one thing over another.

Thank you,
Gary

 

[rinnie]

Emptying the mind of everything, means everything right?

My point is this, when we pray, truly take the time to talk to God, you don’t truly empty your mind.

You go somewhere quiet, close your eyes, and you center your thoughts not on nothing you center your thoughts on God and God only.

You don’t clear your mind of everything, and everyone, you center your mind on God and God only.

You put all of your energy on your time with him, you don’t let your thoughts wander here and there.

When your eyes are closed and you are in what we call centering prayer its God and you one on one. You have him in your heart, your mind your soul.

It is from him that your anxiety levels begin to drop and the peace and warmness comes.

It is God who you call on to take the stress away. Although the stretches help you, it still comes from him. Your relief comes from his grace. All healing does.

But when you open up your mind to nothing, by the way speaking for myself, its impossible to do. Something or someone is always going to come into your mind.

Say you close your mind and concentrate on nothing, next thing you know something is going to move in, maybe music, the person beside you.

So now you are on the pattern of lets say emptying your mind and you hear music, it becomes what you expect when you begin. So now you hear the music, you are relaxing, before you know it you hear chants… you know the kind yang yang yang, ying wing sing but anyway the next thing you know it becomes a part of what you come to expect. Next thing you know other kinds of chants, etc .

I am just saying it happens to the innocent who have no idea what is going on, and sometimes before you know it you are a part of a cult. I am just saying!

But when your mind begins with God right from the get go, it ends with him.

When you start into something you don’t truly understand, you can get in a lot of trouble. You hear about it all the time.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

rinnie: Emptying the mind of everything, means everything right?

Hi Rinnie: There are thousands of variations on meditation. Many of them involve focusing deeply on one particular thing. This is simply a matter of emptying clutter. I often meditate simply on God, and have often found a very close connection in doing that.

My point is this, when we pray, truly take the time to talk to God, you don’t truly empty your mind.

I think that largely depends on whether we plan on talking or listening when we pray. People go into prayer with all kinds of wants, conditions, petitions and whatnot, and then listen for answers. For me, (and I can only speak for me) the very best way to pray is to shut up and let God do all the talking. The first few times you do this God seems to be rather taken aback., because I think God is used to people trying to make Him out to be Santa. People are always asking for things. But after a few times, you are able to reinforce your resolve to just listen. And God is very accommodating to this.

You go somewhere quiet, close your eyes, and you center your thoughts not on nothing you center your thoughts on God and God only.

Yes, you can do that. Or you can think on nothing. God often shows up anyway.

You don’t clear your mind of everything, and everyone, you center your mind on God and God only.

Again, you can do that, but I have met few people who can do that for more than three or four minutes without a lot of hard work and practice. It’s easier to focus on something.

You put all of your energy on your time with him, you don’t let your thoughts wander here and there.

Yes.

When your eyes are closed and you are in what we call centering prayer its God and you one on one. You have him in your heart, your mind your soul.

Yes. God is already in all of those places. A cluttered mind is seldom able to realize it very well.

It is from him that your anxiety levels begin to drop and the peace and warmness comes.

If you can let it, yes.

It is God who you call on to take the stress away. Although the stretches help you, it still comes from him. Your relief comes from his grace. All healing does.

God seems to like participation. He seems to do little around these parts without hands and feet on the street. That’s where we come in.

But when you open up your mind to nothing, by the way speaking for myself, its impossible to do. Something or someone is always going to come into your mind.

Our minds are mostly filled with chatter. It’s hard to encounter God through a lot of chatter. If we quiet down, God will be seen to be where He has always been. Which is right here.

Say you close your mind and concentrate on nothing, next thing you know something is going to move in, maybe music, the person beside you.

That’s exactly what happens if you don’t work hard and practice. I think an encounter with God is worth the work. But there are many ways to encounter God. It is not my place to tell you that you are wrong in whatever it is you do. In terms of connecting with God, what works for you is what you should do. Don’t miss out though . Get your own show on the road, whatever that is.

So now you are on the pattern of lets say emptying your mind and you hear music, it becomes what you expect when you begin. So now you hear the music, you are relaxing, before you know it you hear chants… you know the kind yang yang yang, ying wing sing but anyway the next thing you know it becomes a part of what you come to expect. Next thing you know other kinds of chants, etc .

You can chant the name of the Lord. You can chant a rosary. You can sing a song from church.

I am just saying it happens to the innocent who have no idea what is going on, and sometimes before you know it you are a part of a cult. I am just saying!

Well, I think cults are another matter altogether.

But when your mind begins with God right from the get go, it ends with him.

Absolutely.

When you start into something you don’t truly understand, you can get in a lot of trouble.

Yes, I call this “the world.”

You hear about it all the time.

It’s all about experience.

Thank you,
Gary

 

[rinnie]

Yoga is a system from the Hindu Religion. Its main concern is religious and not just exercise. and health.

Like said here earlier if you are truly speaking of Yoga.

From what I have read, and I have read up on pretty reliable resources in the years EWTN actually has one.

On it, it was stated that many Christians claim it is not possible to separate it from just exercise and the dangers of the cult remain,

It would make sense because Yoga is a Spiritual exercise as much as a physical one.

I have also read that in New York it is a multi million business, and its teachers are now becoming more informed on the teaching of Hindu, which really does not surprise me.

But the bottom line is the Spiritual part of Yoga is in direct conflict with the faith of Catholicism. If the true teaching of Yoga is truly the spiritual teaching combined with the exercise and health combined, then to get the effect you must do both or you are not doing Yoga.

So I believe this is why we can see the dangers of this, and what are to come.

Like said earlier if you want to do stretches, go to someone who can teach them to you, and combine them with your faith. Its the safe thing to do.

And remember our Spiritual life with God is more important then anything else in this world.

Maybe you can as a Catholic do both but many who have done this disagree. Why take the chance.

 

[rinnie]

I guess for me, yoga means the eastern philosophical and religious ideas that are yoga. If it isn’t that, it isn’t yoga.

Stretching exercises while listening to music is not yoga, not any more than eating a peanut butter sandwich is receiving communion.

The difficulty is, finding a stretching class that isn’t, yoga. Or a westernized new age version of yoga. Both of which are going to incorporate non-Christian ideas and beliefs. I haven’t seen a yoga studio that doesn’t incorporate chakras and doesn’t have a statue of a Hindu God in it somewhere. Granted, some of the time the statues are decorative only, but still. I am uncomfortable practicing stretching exercises in front of a Vishnu meditation statue (Buddha believed to be his 9th avatar) with a chakra poster on the side.

This pretty much is what I have read!

 

[Michael_Mayo]

My point is this, when we pray, truly take the time to talk to God, you don’t truly empty your mind.

You go somewhere quiet, close your eyes, and you center your thoughts not on nothing you center your thoughts on God and God only.

You don’t clear your mind of everything, and everyone, you center your mind on God and God only.

You put all of your energy on your time with him, you don’t let your thoughts wander here and there.

I think the key theme here is centering on God. We can do that without words, without inner monologue and without images. it seems to me to be an open receptivity to God as God is and not as we imagine or want God to be. Listening is a very good analogy. When we truly listen we are silent and attentive. It seem passive but it takes practice.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

On it, it was stated that many Christians claim it is not possible to separate it from just exercise and the dangers of the cult remain,

It would make sense because Yoga is a Spiritual exercise as much as a physical one.

Well, legally in many jurisdictions marriage is gender neutral. If one can’t separate one from the other, does that mean the Church is wrong?

Like said earlier if you want to do stretches, go to someone who can teach them to you, and combine them with your faith. Its the safe thing to do.

I’m not sure of the necessity to combine religion with exercise. If one is lifting weights, is one required to think of God while they do so?

 

[cheezey]

I have difficulty praying sometimes. My life is in a chaotic place. With all this talk of Yoga, I shall return to the stretches, i.e. the physicality of it. To help the body, and “empty the mind.” IOW, to clear my head, so that my Father can get a word in edgewise. As suggested by a Christian man of God. The silence that is; he felt I might be trying too hard to pray, thus “maybe He’s waiting to get a word in edgewise.” A nice way of saying, “shut up and let Him talk for a change…”

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[Gary_Sheldrake]

Yoga is a system from the Hindu Religion. Its main concern is religious and not just exercise. and health.

Like said here earlier if you are truly speaking of Yoga.

From what I have read, and I have read up on pretty reliable resources in the years EWTN actually has one.

On it, it was stated that many Christians claim it is not possible to separate it from just exercise and the dangers of the cult remain,

It would make sense because Yoga is a Spiritual exercise as much as a physical one.

I have also read that in New York it is a multi million business, and its teachers are now becoming more informed on the teaching of Hindu, which really does not surprise me.

But the bottom line is the Spiritual part of Yoga is in direct conflict with the faith of Catholicism. If the true teaching of Yoga is truly the spiritual teaching combined with the exercise and health combined, then to get the effect you must do both or you are not doing Yoga.

So I believe this is why we can see the dangers of this, and what are to come.

Like said earlier if you want to do stretches, go to someone who can teach them to you, and combine them with your faith. Its the safe thing to do.

And remember our Spiritual life with God is more important then anything else in this world.

Maybe you can as a Catholic do both but many who have done this disagree. Why take the chance.

Good Evening Rinnie: There is no formal Hindu religion a I have said before. Hinduism is a western term for the various religions on the Indian subcontinent. Yoga is a means of connecting with whatever God it is that a person wishes to connect with. There is no one prescribed iteration of God with which Hinduism teaches people to connect with. If we believe in Jesus, we can use yoga to connect with Jesus. Or you can stay away from yoga. It’s not for everyone.

Now, I understand that you have learned certain things about Hinduism from ETWN. That’s a fine show, and I watch it too from time to time, but it’s probably better equipped to talk about Catholicism. I have done all branches of Yoga for many years, and Jesus and I are very close. I am not, however, prescribing my approach to anyone else. I am simply making the point that I am a as familiar with Eastern religious traditions as I am with Catholicism, and it has not caused me to become anything but a Catholic. No one is going to accidentally get rooked into calling Jesus Ishwara or Bhagavan, or any other Eastern deity. When you look at an image of an Indian God, you know you are not looking at Jesus. They are hard to miss, and Jesus only had one set of arms, wasn’t blue nor did he have a trunk nor was he half Ape. If a Catholic goes to a yoga class and comes out singing Jai Ram, Sita Ram, well, that person was probably ready to move on to something else anyway. I do not think that God is sectarian.

Thank you,
Gary

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

I have difficulty praying sometimes. My life is in a chaotic place. With all this talk of Yoga, I shall return to the stretches, i.e. the physicality of it. To help the body, and “empty the mind.” IOW, to clear my head, so that my Father can get a word in edgewise. As suggested by a Christian man of God. The silence that is; he felt I might be trying too hard to pray, thus “maybe He’s waiting to get a word in edgewise.” A nice way of saying, “shut up and let Him talk for a change…”

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How’d they get that cat to do that?