Who prays for satan?

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I dont know if this question is fitting here, but, move it to an appropriate are, if need. thankyou

Who prays for satan? We are supposed to pray for sinners and he is a sinner who could need it the most. But I dont entirely agree here.

Are we not supposed to pray for there conversion even if they dont want it?

This is Mark Twain’s writing but a very puzzling question.
 
The angels made an **irrevocable **choice at the beginning of their creation. Christ did not die to redeem the angels.

The choice made by the angels is permanent and we know they are in Hell. Our prayers cannot assist them. Therefore, we do not pray for fallen angels.

We **can **pray for (a) dead or (b) living humans in hopes they are (a) in purgatory and assisted by our prayers or (b) will repent before death through the movement of the Holy Spirit in their lives.

But, if a person who has died is in fact in Hell, our prayers cannot assist them. But since we cannot know whether someone is in Hell, we still pray for them. The prayers are efficacious for us in any event.
 
I suppose it depends on how you approach it…

Taking the Milton view, Satan is quite happy where he is and doesn’t need being prayer for. “Better to reign in Hell than Serve in heaven” ect.

However, shouldn’t every Christian pray for sinners, regardless? In which case, we should pray for Satan…wow…

That’s rather strangely twisted! LOL
 
1ke is correct. satan and the fallen angels made an irrevocable choice. the reason it was irrevocable is: because even with their higher intellect and even in the exalted state of beatific vision-- beholding the unendingly awesome face of God, who is Love HImself, they still defied HIM, “We will not serve.” irrevocable.

the devil is not happy. there is no true happines apart from God. Satan knows he is forever separated from God. he hates God and he hates us because God loves us and because we may attain what he has lost-- eternal happiness. he is the vicious, lying face of despair.

my students are often surprised to learn that in the struggle between good and evil, the devil is NO match for God. they arent equal adversaries. they arent even close. that’s why we stay close to the Lord. we are no match for the devil, but God’s awesome grace, alive and powerful in us, and our guardian angels fighting for us, are.
 
My understanding is the fallen angels never beheld the Beatific Vision. At their creation they chose to defy God and, being 100% spiritual beings, were fully aware of all the consequences of that decision and chose that way nonetheless. This caused their entire being to be entirely corrupt and evil, with no chance of change.

The reason we humans are capable of sinning and repenting is because we have both spiritual and physical natures. Our physical nature can blind us to what we really want (like when a Christian sins and regrets it), if we then go on to repent we can atone for that past sin through Christ’s propitiatory sacrifice.

Unlike us, there is no salvation for fallen spiritual beings - they weren’t temporarily blinding like a human can be by lust, but rather made their decision with full disclosure, so to speak.

Satan continues to defy and fight God out of pride. That is what led to his fall, he was too proud to humble himself before God, so he took on an evil spiritual nature and was cast from Heaven by the angels loyal to God. From what I’ve heard supposedly before the fall Lucifer was the greatest of the angels, but instead of serving God - which would have made him truly great - he got full of himself and opposed God.

Something that is at least somewhat relevant to this conversation: the difference between Satan and Lucifer…I had always though Satan was just Lucifer after the fall, but I’ve heard from at least one exorcist that they are two different beings (Fr. Malachi Martin describes Satan as the liar with the twisted tongue and Lucifer as the attacker, or something along those lines). Thoughts or information?
 
If Satan likes where he is… wouldn’t praying for him be like the ultimate punishment for him? Wouldn’t that make him angry?

What should we pray for? That he be forgiven…? No… that he realize the error of his ways? Maybe?

But wait… aren’t we supposed to forgive thus who do wrong to us? So… shouldn’t we forgive satan as well???
 
what an interesting topic. I’ve wondered in the past if the devil was suffering in hell or if he just made others suffer?
 
nickybr38 said:
If Satan likes where he is… wouldn’t praying for him be like the ultimate punishment for him? Wouldn’t that make him angry?

What should we pray for? That he be forgiven…? No… that he realize the error of his ways? Maybe?

But wait… aren’t we supposed to forgive thus who do wrong to us? So… shouldn’t we forgive satan as well???
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In my very basic prayer 101 primer given to me by my priest, the very first thing that was made clear to me was that it is God’s will that must be examined first.

So, would it be in accordance with God’s will that Satan be aided by prayer?

If you believe it is, then you would have at least the focus on God’s will even if you were mistaken about what his will actually is in this regard.

Why would anyone wonder if the person or supernatural agent you were praying for would be angry about prayers being said for them? This does not make sense to me if one is following the first rule I mentioned.

Forgive Satan? Because he did something wrong to “us”?

I’m not seeing that the blame is put on Satan for Original Sin. I am understanding it as a sin we all suffer from due to the choices the Adam and Eve of the narrative made. Maybe I need to look at that again and see where Satan is the one to blame for their disobedience.
 
dailey said:
what an interesting topic. I’ve wondered in the past if the devil was suffering in hell or if he just made others suffer?
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He is not destroyed yet, so it makes no sense to say he is suffering in hell. I am not sure he will be in hell or not. It seems one could take the view he will be destroyed when Christ comes again. Even if he is not destroyed, he is not currently in hell but will be after Christ comes again to judge all. He remains unchained, and allowed to roam loose and free now. Thus the reason for so many to be consumed in thought about him preying on folks.
 
dailey said:
what an interesting topic. I’ve wondered in the past if the devil was suffering in hell or if he just made others suffer?
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I guess we can take it both ways: Satan is under extreme torment, but he also drags the damned to that same torment…? 🤷
 
StrawberryJam said:
Forgive Satan? Because he did something wrong to “us”?

I’m not seeing that the blame is put on Satan for Original Sin. I am understanding it as a sin we all suffer from due to the choices the Adam and Eve of the narrative made. Maybe I need to look at that again and see where Satan is the one to blame for their disobedience.
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Well, I’m not speaking of Original Sin necessarily. I’m speaking of forgiving him and his demons for the lies and deceit they use to lead us astray. We would be called to forgive humans who do the same so why not these fallen angels?

🤷
 
nickybr38 said:
Well, I’m not speaking of Original Sin necessarily. I’m speaking of forgiving him and his demons for the lies and deceit they use to lead us astray. We would be called to forgive humans who do the same so why not these fallen angels?

🤷
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Humans have the ability to be redeemed and reconciled with your God. However, Satan lost that ability. So did those who went with him in his rebellion.

I’m not suggesting it is wrong to have empathy for others. Please forgive me if it sounded that way. I think maybe you should toss this by your priest sometime and feel him out on this.
 
Yes, we are to forgive. And we pray for people who have sinned against us. But we do so because we believe our prayers may benefit them.

There is no possibility of anyone in hell, including the devil, being benefitted by our prayers. All chance for benefit was lost the moment they ended up there.

It is as useless to pray for a soul in Hell as it is to pray for the repose of the soul of a canonised saint, someone who we know already to be in heaven enjoying the fullest possible bliss.

Our prayers on their behalf can add nothing at all to the joy of those in heaven, nor change in the slightest the torments of those in hell. We can’t pray for them to be forgiven by God, since they never can be. If they could, it stands to reason they must be let out of hell and into heaven, which is impossible. We are taught the torment of hell is eternal.
 
Wait a minute though. We don’t forgive someone simply for their benefit, we forgive for our benefit too. 🙂 It is only through forgiving that we are forgiven… right?
 
Shae said:
I dont know if this question is fitting here, but, move it to an appropriate are, if need. thankyou

Who prays for satan? We are supposed to pray for sinners and he is a sinner who could need it the most. But I dont entirely agree here.

Are we not supposed to pray for there conversion even if they dont want it?

This is Mark Twain’s writing but a very puzzling question.
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I enjoy Mark Twain. He was a funny and intelligent author, but not a Catholic theologian. (Nevertheless, he did write a book on Joan of Arc. Twain appreciated God’s humor in making a teenage girl France’s most successful military commander.)

Yes, it’s a puzzling and somewhat quirky question. 1ke and other’s posted in line with how a Catholic theologian might respond to his question. Yet, Twain was a humorist and was not neccessarily looking for a theologically correct answer to his question.

In anycase, if someone wanted to pray for fallen angels, while it wouldn’t affect the fallen angel’s conversion, but I believe God uses sincere prayer. He’d figure out how to use those prayers to do some good. Maybe in His Infinate Mercy and Humor, He might apply prayers inspire by Mark Twain to Mark Twain’s soul, since Mark Twain writing might inspire some to pray. (or maybe to Mark Twain’s readers.) Satan won’t benefit from our prayers, but maybe Mark Twain and his readers could.
 
nickybr38 said:
Wait a minute though. We don’t forgive someone simply for their benefit, we forgive for our benefit too. 🙂 It is only through forgiving that we are forgiven… right?
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Forgiving someone for their wrongs to us is a somewhat different thing from praying for God to forgive them or have mercy upon them. To do so only makes sense when such forgiveness and mercy are possible - ie before His eternal sentence is imposed upon them.

There is no appealing the decision of the heavenly tribunal when sentence has already been determined, as it has upon the Devil and the souls in hell. Since that decision is never anything other than perfectly just and perfectly merciful and leaves nothing to be desired or changed.
 
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