Who prays the rosary?

[Anita_K]

Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle, be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil; may God rebuke him, we humbly pray and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all evil spirits who wander through the world for the ruin of souls. Amen.

Who is the O Prince in this line who is dependant on God.

As a child I used to think it meant Jesus but if Jesus is God how would he be dependant of Jesus.

I am now pondering an i to be the O Prince is the angel Michael but isn’t it Jesus who will throw satan to the abyss / hell?

Or am i to understand Michael will throw him to hell and Jesus will enter hell throw him into the deeper part of it.

 

[Student09]

It means that St. Michael will cast the devil into Hell by the power of God (Jesus is God).

What does this have to do with praying the rosary?

 

[coolduude]

It means that St. Michael will cast the devil into Hell by the power of God (Jesus is God).

What does this have to do with praying the rosary?

Well I do know that the St. Michael prayer can be inserted between the 10th Hail Mary and the Our Father.

 

[Anita_K]

In our parish it is prayed at the very end as the last prayer.

So the God Jesus prayed to is the one who will get Michael to send satan there and when i read the bible the terms God, Father and Jesus are interchangeable.

That would work for this instance. Provided one understands who God is given in the prayer we ask Michael to do this.

If Jesus taught the apostles to pray to God he must have really meant pay to himself.

When Jesus was asked for seats at the table by a lady for her two sons Jesus lied when he said he did not know?

I better stop i am getting myself confused.

I will just rest it is Michael we ask who is God and Jesus as Jesus taught us to pray to God not angels. Does the book of revelation say Jesus will cast satan into the abyss?

If it does God, Father, Jesus, Michael are all the same because Jesus who is God that does not know the seats at the table but knows them is Michael we pray to because Jesus who is God who does and does not know who sits where told us to pray to Him that is but is not he who taught us to pray to him himself or as Michael.

On thing for sure Our Catholic God keeps us on our toes, and i am beginning to see whay in RCIA all of these questions were avoided.

They may have been concerned that i would be confused and backed out at Easter from saying i believe Michael is God who is Father who is Jesus who is Michael.

The Church must have found this so much easier to explain when people did not have bibles, maybe thats why they with held that book until after i was committed.

 

[Student09]

I’m a little confused by your writing, but I will try to answer your questions.

First of all, the battle between the devil and St. Michael is in the Bible:

“And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels: And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him” (Revelation 12:7-9).

“But at that time shall Michael rise up, the great prince, who standeth for the children of thy people” (Daniel 12:1).

“When Michael the archangel, disputing with the devil, contended about the body of Moses, he durst not bring against him the judgment of railing speech, but said: ‘The Lord command thee’” (Jude 1:9).

There are more references to Michael but these are the principal ones. As you can see, the Bible clearly refers to Michael the archangel as a “prince” and says that he will fight the devil and has already had disputes with the devil. Jude’s letter (the third quote) is pointing out that St. Michael triumphed by the power of Jesus, when he said “The Lord command thee.”

St. Michael is an angel, a created being. He is not God. But as a holy angel, he is united to God and able to carry out the will of God in helping His people.

God is a Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Son, the second Person of the Trinity - who is one God - took flesh and became a man, Jesus.

Now Jesus was both fully God and fully man. In some parts of the Gospels, he speaks according to his divine nature, but often he speaks according to his human nature. So according to his human nature there were things he didn’t know, even though he knew them according to his divine nature. This is one of those things that is simply a mystery. But he was not lying.

 

[Anita_K]

Thanks student i think i lost myself a little hey.

I’m a little confused by your writing, but I will try to answer your questions.

First of all, the battle between the devil and St. Michael is in the Bible:

There are more references to Michael but these are the principal ones. As you can see, the Bible clearly refers to Michael the archangel as a “prince” and says that he will fight the devil and has already had disputes with the devil. Jude’s letter (the third quote) is pointing out that St. Michael triumphed by the power of Jesus, when he said “The Lord command thee.”

St. Michael is an angel, a created being. He is not God. But as a holy angel, he is united to God and able to carry out the will of God in helping His people.

Amen

God is a Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Son, the second Person of the Trinity - who is one God - took flesh and became a man, Jesus.

Now Jesus was both fully God and fully man. In some parts of the Gospels, he speaks according to his divine nature, but often he speaks according to his human nature. So according to his human nature there were things he didn’t know, even though he knew them according to his divine nature. This is one of those things that is simply a mystery. But he was not lying.

So in the bible after Jesus assends all references to him will show him as all knowing and all seeing and not dependant on God the Father whos will Jesus chose above his own while in flesh?

 

[Anita_K]

God is a Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Son, the second Person of the Trinity - who is one God - took flesh and became a man, Jesus.

Does that mean God divided? part of Him in flesh and part still in heaven?

If you say he was fully in both places then why did Jesus pray to Him and tech us to pray to Him?

If God has one mind always knowing and always seeing Jesus being fully God and fully man the fully man would have to know all his mind always.

 

[Student09]

Thanks student i think i lost myself a little hey.

I’m glad it was helpful.

So in the bible after Jesus assends all references to him will show him as all knowing and all seeing and not dependant on God the Father whos will Jesus chose above his own while in flesh?

Well, Jesus is still in the flesh - he took his humanity to Heaven with him. He is in Heaven, in the flesh. But, his humanity is now glorified. And yes, he knows everything. I would not say he is dependent on God the Father, because he is not separate from God the Father - they are one God. This is the mystery of the Trinity; it is probably the most difficult thing a human being can try to understand, so if you are having trouble with it, recognize that that is normal. But we will understand in Heaven.

 

[Student09]

If you say he was fully in both places then why did Jesus pray to Him and tech us to pray to Him?
.

I don’t understand what you mean by places?

Jesus had two natures: divine and human. But he was only one person. These natures were not separate. Insofar as he was man, Jesus prayed to his Father. Insofar as he was God, we pray to Jesus.

 

[Anita_K]

I’m glad it was helpful.

Well, Jesus is still in the flesh - he took his humanity to Heaven with him. He is in Heaven, in the flesh. But, his humanity is now glorified. And yes, he knows everything. I would not say he is dependent on God the Father, because he is not separate from God the Father - they are one God. This is the mystery of the Trinity; it is probably the most difficult thing a human being can try to understand, so if you are having trouble with it, recognize that that is normal. But we will understand in Heaven.

Those last words are very much a comfort to me , bless you it is the way not place obsicals in the way of faith and to help as you are by helping me to move my burdens out of the way Bless you

 

[Anita_K]

I don’t understand what you mean by places?

Jesus had two natures: divine and human. But he was only one person. These natures were not separate. Different parts of the Bible emphasize one nature or the other, but this is because the Bible was written through the medium of human beings, and as human beings we understand things in a limited and primitive way.

So when he said to the lady he did not know the seats at the table, he really meant i know but in flesh wont tell you?

 

[Student09]

So when he said to the lady he did not know the seats at the table, he really meant i know but in flesh wont tell you?

I believe this is the passage you are referring to:

Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee approached him with her sons and did him homage, wishing to ask him for something.

He said to her, "What do you wish?" She answered him, "Command that these two sons of mine sit, one at your right and the other at your left, in your kingdom."

Jesus said in reply, "You do not know what you are asking.  Can you drink the cup that I am going to drink?" They said to him, "We can."

He replied, "My cup you will indeed drink, but to sit at my right and at my left is not mine to give but is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father."

So he doesn’t say he doesn’t know - but he says that it is not his to give, but his Father’s. Jesus is speaking as a man - and he is also speaking as the Son. The Son is God. But, the Son is also willingly obedient to the Father. There are relationships within the Persons of the Holy Trinity, who is God, even though there is only one God. Again, hard to understand.

It’s an interesting passage. I think Jesus is trying to humble James and John and their mother - and simultaneously, to give an example of humility and obedience by his own humility and obedience to His Father. The fact that we lowly human beings are getting lessons in humility and obedience from GOD Himself should make us pretty ashamed of ourselves!

 

[Anita_K]

I believe this is the passage you are referring to:

So he doesn’t say he doesn’t know - but he says that it is not his to give, but his Father’s. Jesus is speaking as a man - and he is also speaking as the Son. The Son is God. But, the Son is also willingly obedient to the Father. There are relationships within the Persons of the Holy Trinity, who is God, even though there is only one God. Again, hard to understand.

I can use my mind to understand but thats mental gymnastics. But that seems God wants to make it hard and illogical while in my prayer to The Father not to St Michael as Jesus when he was a man but fully God taught, inspires me He wants it to be easy for all people who are chosen. Should i just get the message your not chosen but called so i can use you before throwing you into the lake of fire.

If Jesus is FULLY God then it is FULLY his to give.
If Jesus is FULLY God he is FULLY obedient to His way needing no submission as there is nothing to give up.
Fully God is fully without any fault or considering doing wrong, because God is fully good.
Fully God is fully knowing he knows all the hairs on your head
It’s an interesting passage. I think Jesus is trying to humble James and John and their mother - and simultaneously, to give an example of humility and obedience by his own humility and obedience to His Father. The fact that we lowly human beings are getting lessons in humility and obedience from GOD should make us pretty ashamed of ourselves!

It’s an interesting passage. I think Jesus is trying to humble James and John and their mother - and simultaneously, to give an example of humility and obedience by his own humility and obedience to His Father. The fact that we lowly human beings are getting lessons in humility and obedience from GOD should make us pretty ashamed of ourselves!

What you say is beautiful understanding and best i know inspired by God for attitude of mercy and understanding but stands against God being straight with men.

Plain as by your words Jesus did not answer the question straight. FULLY God FULLY knows. Jesus said if you mean yes say yes, not be avoiding and pass your self of as not being in control passing off to your spiritual self, who is the same self FULLY in both states of being.

 

[Anita_K]

Why would anyone want to give themselves to a god who makes it hard and confusing.

Did you pray one day and come to these conclusions or did people teach it to you?

Why would i not be better off to follow what is written in the bible that God is above all always know and always makes it easy for people to feel welcome into His love if you are willing.

Jesus is narrated as directing us to his Father (you say himself) and calling us to follow him in this way, dying so sinners who are not worthy can be before his Father.

If i read post gospel books do they still differentiate between God and Jesus? By my reading they did.

And if Jesus is FULLY God why did he not tech us to pray to Michael, surly if this is the way he would have taught it to the disciples when they asked how to pray.

Clearly by logic if God has now shown us different ways Jesus did not do the best by the disciples how to pray.

Its such a head ache no wonder Catholics are different to all other believers.

Was i not supposed to get this gift of knowledge and wisdom when i ceased to be a catchuminate and was accepted?

I know this is full of envy but how do some get to understand words contry to the way the are written.

 

[WMM]

It means that St. Michael will cast the devil into Hell by the power of God (Jesus is God).

What does this have to do with praying the Rosary?

***Many people include the Prayer to St. Michael when praying the Rosary as part of the conclusion.

HAIL HOLY QUEEN, mother of mercy; our life, our sweetness, and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn, then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us. And after this, our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. 0 clement, 0 loving, 0 sweet Virgin Mary. Pray for us, 0 holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ. Amen.

O GOD, WHOSE only-begotten Son by His life, death and resurrection, has purchased for us the rewards of eternal life; grant, we beseech Thee, that by meditating upon these mysteries of the Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, we may imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise, through the same Christ our Lord. Amen.

ST. MICHAEL, the archangel
Defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray.
And do Thou, O prince of the Heavenly Host by the power of God, thrust into Hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.

---

 

[Apryl]

Well I do know that the St. Michael prayer can be inserted between the 10th Hail Mary and the Our Father.

“The 10th Hail Mary and the Our Father”? In a Rosary?

There are many ways to pray the Rosary (I always say there are none that are wrong so long as you are praying for convesation with God and do so with reverance)

Most Rosaries - all that I have ever seen - ONLY have the Lord’s Prayer/Our Father at the start.

After the 10th Hail Mary is usually the Gloria Patri, which is followed by the closing prayers of the Salve Regina and Memorare and Doxology, then you would do the St. Michael Prayer.

 

[Anita_K]

***Many people include the Prayer to St. Michael when praying the Rosary as part of the conclusion.

HAIL HOLY QUEEN, mother of mercy; our life, our sweetness, and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn, then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us. And after this, our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. 0 clement, 0 loving, 0 sweet Virgin Mary. Pray for us, 0 holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ. Amen.

O GOD, WHOSE only-begotten Son by His life, death and resurrection, has purchased for us the rewards of eternal life; grant, we beseech Thee, that by meditating upon these mysteries of the Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, we may imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise, through the same Christ our Lord. Amen.

ST. MICHAEL, the archangel
Defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray.
And do Thou, O prince of the Heavenly Host by the power of God, thrust into Hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.

---

that is the most common way in our parish

 

[Apryl]

Why would anyone want to give themselves to a god who makes it hard and confusing.

You list yourself as ‘Catholic’ in your profile (I’m not doing any stalking.It shows up to the upper right of your posts)

If you are Catholic, why would you ask ‘why would any one want to…’?

Makes me wonder if you are being honest with us.

One thing that is very hard for non-Believers to accept is that Faith means believing in things that may not make sense to believe in, and accepting certain things as truth.

This doesn’t mean that there is no way to validate the beliefs - there is seldom proof for beliefs, but you can point to other things to show that the idea/belief makes sense.

God is far from confusing if we suspend trying to make God make sense by our standards and parameters. He can do all things. Next?

 

[Anita_K]

You list yourself as ‘Catholic’ in your profile (I’m not doing any stalking.It shows up to the upper right of your posts)

If you are Catholic, why would you ask ‘why would any one want to…’?

Makes me wonder if you are being honest with us.

You should read the thread i am a convert sorry for you your doubts make you mad. Maybe you should have prayed about me and found peace form your doubts. Jesus is written in the gospel to teach us to pray to Our Father and taking his teachings we have peace. I know thats from the bible but what else should i do to learn. Ask questions here and disturb you?

One thing that is very hard for non-Believers to accept is that Faith means believing in things that may not make sense to believe in, and accepting certain things as truth.

And you think it is wrong for me to seek understanding? roll your eyes forward again and try to see me rather than inside of yourself.

This doesn’t mean that there is no way to validate the beliefs - there is seldom proof for beliefs, but you can point to other things to show that the idea/belief makes sense.

that makes more sense. If i was not ment to become a Catholic why was there so much pressure to become Catholic.

God is far from confusing if we suspend trying to make God make sense by our standards and parameters.

then why would i read the bible?

He can do all things

. Amen

Next?

what does that mean?

 

[Anita_K]

Actually you have made your point, what is the point, shut down in rcia shut down here.
Best wishes to you all and thanks for the person that was helping me.
Who will see Jesus when he comes?