Who really conquered the devil?

[surritter]

Something came to my mind a few days ago while listening to one of the readings at Mass (on the Feast of the Archangels). Perhaps this thought could help some folks who regularly engage in dialogue with Protestants.

In Revelation 12, verses 7-9, we are told how St. Michael battled the demons and threw the dragon (Satan) down. This got me to thinking: Isn’t Jesus really the One who conquered Satan? Yes, I reasoned, but it’s not wrong to say that St. Michael conquered Satan, because Michael did it through the power of Jesus’s death and resurrection.

How might this help in apologetics to Protestants? Because Catholics are often reprimanded that Mary is not a mediatrix, nor can we pray to Mary, nor should we show any honor to her beyond the honor given to any other deceased Christian, etc. But I see the story of St. Michael as a perfect analogy!

So the next time you are challenged about Mary’s role in Heaven, ask your Protestant friend who conquered the devil. If he says Jesus, then you have to show Revelation 12 to him, and then explain why the Catholic view of Mary is perfectly acceptable.

Thoughts?

 

[Julian0404]

When lucifer was thrown out of Heaven, JESUS had yet to become man and die on the cross, so St. Michael could not have done with HIS BLOOD.
lucifer was the highest angel, but was still removed from Heaven by St. Michael “…and may Thou O Prince of the Heavnly Host by the power of GOD cast into hell satan and all the evil spirits…” as per the St. Michael prayer written by Pope Leo XIII - by the power of GOD.

So I do not think a St. Michael vs Holy Virgin Mary is a good comparison.

Father Corapi has a very good tool for discussing prayer and the Virgin Mary. He simply challenges the opponent as to whether they pray the gospels or not, as the Rosary is simply prayers composed primarly from the gospels.

The Our Father came from JESUS.
The Hail Mary came from St. Gabriel and Elizabeth, John the Baptist mother.
The Glory Be is the trinity.
The Apostles creed is originally expressed in the bible by St. Paul

 

[scimitar60]

When lucifer was thrown out of Heaven, JESUS had yet to become man and die on the cross, so St. Michael could not have done with HIS BLOOD.
lucifer was the highest angel, but was still removed from Heaven by St. Michael “…and may Thou O Prince of the Heavnly Host by the power of GOD cast into hell satan and all the evil spirits…” as per the St. Michael prayer written by Pope Leo XIII - by the power of GOD.

So I do not think a St. Michael vs Holy Virgin Mary is a good comparison.

Father Corapi has a very good tool for discussing prayer and the Virgin Mary. He simply challenges the opponent as to whether they pray the gospels or not, as the Rosary is simply prayers composed primarly from the gospels.

The Our Father came from JESUS.
The Hail Mary came from St. Gabriel and Elizabeth, John the Baptist mother.
The Glory Be is the trinity.
The Apostles creed is originally expressed in the bible by St. Paul

Hi, howcome I have seen various ‘Apostles Creed’ prayers and many of them contain ‘He descended into hell, the third day he rose again from the dead.’ yet the creed we say during the Holy Mass doesn’t contain the ‘hell’ bit?

 

[Cat_Herder]

Hi, howcome I have seen various ‘Apostles Creed’ prayers and many of them contain ‘He descended into hell, the third day he rose again from the dead.’ yet the creed we say during the Holy Mass doesn’t contain the ‘hell’ bit?

The current Mass translation is a loose translation of the Latin originals. The “new” translation, scheduled to debut next year, is a stricter translation that will include the world “hell.”

 

[Third_Day]

Hi, howcome I have seen various ‘Apostles Creed’ prayers and many of them contain ‘He descended into hell, the third day he rose again from the dead.’ yet the creed we say during the Holy Mass doesn’t contain the ‘hell’ bit?

At Sunday Mass the Nicene Creed is said, not the Apostles Creed.

 

[Third_Day]

=So the next time you are challenged about Mary’s role in Heaven, ask your Protestant friend who conquered the devil. If he says Jesus, then you have to show Revelation 12 to him, and then explain why the Catholic view of Mary is perfectly acceptable. Thoughts?

That might work for some Protestants. As was pointed out to you, this event in Relavation occurred at the beginning of time. However Michael, by the power of God, interceded amd overcame Satan just as Mary, by the power of God, overcomes Satan and intercedes for us.

 

[thistle]

At Sunday Mass the Nicene Creed is said, not the Apostles Creed.

Depends which country you live in.
Here in the Philippines only the Apostles Creed is said at Sunday Mass.

Remember the GIRM only requires that the Creed is said. It does not specify which one.

 

[surritter]

While St. Michael’s battle may have chronologically happened before the Incarnation, I still maintain that St. Michael was only empowered to win the battle by the future merits of Christ. That’s all that I meant.

 

[Benadam]

Rev. Ch12, 7-11

And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels: And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of the testimony, and they loved not their lives unto death.

 

[Benadam]

Apocalypse 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth adored him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb, which was slain from the beginning of the world.