Who remembers the Mass in English before the 1970 ICEL translation?

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SMHW

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Who remembers the Mass in English before the 1970 ICEL translation? Now that we are using the latest translation… Is it easier to transition since some of the responses are kind of like the way they used to be?

I won’t be attending Mass until tomorrow so I really can’t say how I will do. I don’t think I’ll have a problem with, “And with your spirit,” since it’s just a matter of finding the right sector of the 'ole mental hard drive. We’ve been singing the Gloria and Eucharistic acclamations for a while so I pretty much have those down. (Well at least for the one Memorial acclamation.)

The Lord I am Not Worthy is going to be tricky because I’m going to mix up the old with the new. (The *old *old not the *new *old.:D)

I honestly can’t say I learned the original confiteor or Nicene creed in English. So this will be be my first English update for them.
 
The ICEL English was actually inserted into the transitional Mass in 1967. There was some English before that which was used but there wasn’t any official version if I recall. The handmissal translations varied. People really didn’t respond much prior to the 1970 promulgation.
 
The ICEL English was actually inserted into the transitional Mass in 1967. There was some English before that which was used but there wasn’t any official version if I recall. The handmissal translations varied. People really didn’t respond much prior to the 1970 promulgation.
That’s not my recollection. (About the responding.) But maybe that is because we Catholic school students would have caught hell from the good sisters if we didn’t say the responses.

My recollection is that Latin was very rare in the United States once English was allowed.
 
Who remembers the Mass in English before the 1970 ICEL translation? Now that we are using the latest translation… Is it easier to transition since some of the responses are kind of like the way they used to be?
We’ve been using the new translation here for since September. I’m only now making it through the entire Mass without accidentally reverting “and also with you.” 🙂

I remember the pre-1970 English Mass vaguely (I was 11 in 1970), and yes, I think there are many similarities to the new translation. But for me it hasn’t helped learn the new responses (too many years with ICEL translation), although the familiarity has helped me feel immediately comfortable with it.
 
Same here. I vaguely remember the Mass when it first was said in English. And there is some hazy memory of an old St. Joseph children’s missal with something called “the dialog Mass” in it. The Confiteor (they called it that even though it was in English,) was considerably longer and mentioned in addition to the Blessed Virgin, St. Joseph, St. Michael, the Apostles, and the rest of the saints that we were confessing to and begging forgiveness from. I honestly can’t remember if the priest said the Confiteor in English aloud, or if we all said it. I was in grade school, and the memories are starting to get a little fuzzy.

I took a quick peek online: The Dialogue Mass was in Latin. I told you the memories are getting a little fuzzy!
 
Who remembers the Mass in English before the 1970 ICEL translation? Now that we are using the latest translation… Is it easier to transition since some of the responses are kind of like the way they used to be?

I won’t be attending Mass until tomorrow so I really can’t say how I will do. I don’t think I’ll have a problem with, “And with your spirit,” since it’s just a matter of finding the right sector of the 'ole mental hard drive. We’ve been singing the Gloria and Eucharistic acclamations for a while so I pretty much have those down. (Well at least for the one Memorial acclamation.)

The Lord I am Not Worthy is going to be tricky because I’m going to mix up the old with the new. (The *old *old not the *new *old.:D)

I honestly can’t say I learned the original confiteor or Nicene creed in English. So this will be be my first English update for them.
Yes, I remember it because I was serving at the altar between 1961-1969, as we progressed from Latin, to English with Latin canon, to all English, and also changed the words for reception of Communion. But still always communion on the tongue then.

Yes, some of the phrases used are close to those days. And with your spirit (et cum spiritu tuo). – Spirit in action through the priest.
 
I was thinking that some of the new translation sounded familiar! My dad didn’t think so…but, then again I think he was more happy about the Latin!

Actually, when I go to the nursing home for Mass I wonder if the Latin will ring up memories for the residents…
 
That’s not my recollection. (About the responding.)
Now that you mention it, people did participate in the Credo and Dominus Vobiscum as well. As far as the ICEL goes, the committee was being formed even before the council and so were anxious to implement the vernacular as soon as possible, despite Veterum Sapientia.
 
I have vague memories since I rarely attended a Mass entirely in English. Our parish was mostly French with some English parishioners so Mass was usually bilingual, with perhaps the EP said in English at various times.
 
Who remembers the Mass in English before the 1970 ICEL translation? Now that we are using the latest translation… Is it easier to transition since some of the responses are kind of like the way they used to be?

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I do, and today was pretty much what I remember. The translation, compared to my old St. Andrew missal, is almost identical. Since I also remember the dialogue Mass in Latin (in the context of which my own sacramental formation occured) it seems the first translations were literal renderings of the text, so the similarity is not surprising. It only leads one to wonder why 40 years of experimentation and mauled English was necessary. When one recalls the NAB was given to us by those same fine folks at ICEL one can only hope for the continued revision of that text to some semblance of the original languages.
 
I remember the Mass in Latin and I remember that when the English translation came along it was very, very faithful to the Latin. Then it came down the pike to the form we’ve used for decades. Now we have the ‘new’ translation which isn’t new at all ~ I remember saying ‘and with your spirit’, and ‘Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldst enter under my roof…’. What we have now is a correction to what was always intended, so I welcome the changes. I saw a lot of experimentation in the ‘early days’ after Vatican II and as a consequence liturgical abuse has become so much the norm that people just accept it as normal and allowable. Hopefully this will correct the situation, but I think we need to really step up and take the opportunity to remind (politely) our priests to make sure they remain faithful to the new translation and obedient to Rome.
 
I do, and today was pretty much what I remember. The translation, compared to my old St. Andrew missal, is almost identical. Since I also remember the dialogue Mass in Latin (in the context of which my own sacramental formation occured) it seems the first translations were literal renderings of the text, so the similarity is not surprising. It only leads one to wonder why 40 years of experimentation and mauled English was necessary. When one recalls the NAB was given to us by those same fine folks at ICEL one can only hope for the continued revision of that text to some semblance of the original languages.
I remember it as well! When I first read through the new translation, it rang a lot of bells! For instance, I distinctly remember saying “Lord, I am not worthy that Thou shouldst come (or was it “enter”?) under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed”. We must have said this for years, or else I wouldn’t remember it. The only difference between this and the new translation is the use of “Thou” and “shouldst”.

It certainly took long enough for the corrections to be made! I was a child when last we prayed with a sufficient translation!
 
I still have the Missal from 1966 from St. Joseph press, with the english translations and the reduced (from the 1962 rite) form. The english responses are almost the same as what we have now in the New translation.
 
In the days before the Second Vatican Council, our personal missals had the Latin text with a fairly standard English translation beside it. For those of us with long memories, much of the new translation seems very familiar - apart from replacing thou, thee and thou with you and your.

In England and Wales in the late 1960s, we had two translations of the Mass. One was provided by the National Liturgical Commission and the other by ICEL. Redemptorist Publications used to produce weekly Mass sheets with both versions (in tiny print). The ICEL version held sway and became the 1970 Missal. It seemed a good idea at the time and people have become familiar with it. Someone coming to it afresh would realise that there’s a lot of 1968 hippy English in there. I’m surprised that the reply to the priest’s greeting wasn’t “Love and peace, man.”
 
The Lord I am Not Worthy is going to be tricky because I’m going to mix up the old with the new. (The *old *old not the *new *old.:D)
That has been one of the easiest for me. I remember the old one very well–maybe because the language is poetic.

What I still get tripped up on is the “and with your spirit” response to “peace be with you”. The sign of peace was new with ICEL, as I recall, so somehow I think the “and also with you” is in a different part of my memory for that.
 
About a decade ago I wrote a series of articles detailing the transition period from 1964-1970, as experienced in the United States. Some of the recollections here have been inaccurate. While there were some variations in timing based on one’s diocese, this is the timeline:

28 Apr 64: On this date, the words for the administration of Communion became Corpus Christi, to which the communicant responded Amen. (Some dioceses began this change several months after this date.)

29 Nov 64: On Advent Sunday (the beginning of the 1965 liturgical year), vernacular readings were permitted as the official liturgical texts–using the Confraternity translation–along with the use of commentators to explain the various parts of the Mass. Also permitted was the recitation of the antiphons and the Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus and Agnus Dei. While there was no one date on which the altars were “turned around,” in most places this occurred, through the use of temporary altars, on or around this date.

7 Mar 65: The prayer at the foot of the altar were shortened, with the elimination of the psalm Judica me, as were the last gospel and Leonine prayers after Mass. Concelebration was permitted for Maundy Thursday Masses, and the first (but very limited) permission for communion under both kinds was given. Prayers of the faithful and offertory processions began to also be permitted. These changes and the ones immediately before it together constitute what is often called the 1965 missal, though no such edition was actually promulgated, as the process of reform was still a work in progress.

27 Mar 66: All audible parts of the Mass were permitted in the vernacular (including the collects, so for many, the response And with your spirit began to be used here), while all silent parts were retained in Latin. Thus, everything the people heard was in English, while the priest’s prayers before the gospel, while blessing incense, during the offertory, the entire Canon of the Mass, the priest’s prayers after the Our Father and before communion, as well as after communion and before the final blessing, were still recited in Latin, in the Tridentine format. There were still two readings at Mass.

22 Oct 67: Permission was given for the Canon of the Mass to be recited aloud and in the vernacular. The rubrics were simpified in June, reducing the number of genuflections and signs of the cross made by the priest, and many places implemented those changes along with the vernacular, audible Canon of the Mass.

1 Dec 68: Three additional eucharistic prayers were introduced. This change and the one before it represented huge changes in the Order of the Mass. The EPs had been introduced in August, and dioceses phased them in throughout the fall, until Advent Sunday, the mandated date of implementation.

30 Nov 69: The new missal began to be used. This included the now-familiar ICEL translation of the Mass, which moved away from the interim forms that had been used for the previous five years, which in many ways would resemble the current translations. Three readings were now read at Sunday Mass, with a responsorial psalm replacing the former gradual psalm. The missal had been promulgated in April, 1969, and its use mandated by Advent Sunday, though this was later extended to 1 Jan 71.
 
That’s not my recollection. (About the responding.) But maybe that is because we Catholic school students would have caught hell from the good sisters if we didn’t say the responses.

My recollection is that Latin was very rare in the United States once English was allowed.
Yup, and many of us were told that Latin had been "outlawed " .

As recently as the mid-'90s a nun, who was our de facto associate pastor told me that “the Church frowned on the use of Latin”.
 
Also, there were also the changes made by Pope Pius XII in 1955 (Maxima Redemptionis and Cum Nostra Hac Aetate), including the revised Holy Week and rubrics and calendar changes, and 1958 Dialog Mass and Commentators. These changes were big! And then the changes to bring about the 1962 Mass: canon change, elimination of Confíteor before Communion, and other changes. I had was serving at the altar when we adopted the 1962 Mass.

novusordowatch.org/john_xxiii_mass_changes.htm
 
I remember a lot of the Mass text that we used when it was first translated into English in the '60s. It was very much like the new translation. However, I can’t remember if the word “consubstantial” was used in the Creed as opposed to “one in being”. Does anyone remember? Does anyone have an old missal to check this out? I was 7 years old and didn’t own a missal.

I really can’t figure out why some people are having a cow over this one word. Evidently, it is completely ruining their day.
 
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