Who says one organization today is "The True Church"

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qui_est_ce said:
Matt, two of the Church Fathers, whose writings are still available today, were students of St John, the Apostle. These were St. Igantius of Antioch, and St. Polycarp, whose feastday we celebrated yesterday 2/24/10. They were also Bishops who died brutal deaths for the faith.

Their writings tell us how they early Christians lived out their faith life, mass, liturgy, Eucharist. Their writings are substantiated by drawing and writings on the walls of the Catacombs. Archeological digs show they practiced infant Baptism and believed in the Real Presence, among other things the Church still practices today.

These early bishops had to stamp out heresies that began at the very earliest times. Gnosticism, Arianism, Marcionism are some of them. We are not Arians or Nominalists today because of the work of these early Bishops preserving the Teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. That is the role of the Bishop.

If you can’t accept the teachings of the Early Church Fathers and the Apostles, then it is impossible to know if Christianity, the Bible, the Trinity, all of it, is even valid.
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Do all students always mirror their teachers? But that aside, no it is not impossible based on faith.
 
tweetymom said:
I was at a Bible Study for women, BSF and heard a lecture and the woman gave the sermon and it was all about me. Not me personally but about me. I couldn"t believe what she was saying and I now know that it was God speaking to me thru her. I went home and prayed got down on my knees with a repentend t heart and the tears flowed and Jesus came into my heart and I could feel and knew. I was baptised as a baby.
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I know some people who do BSF. They say it’s a really good Bible study.
 
tweetymom said:
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God!
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OK, Muslims say the word of God is found in the Koran. We know that is incorrect. How did we come to hear the word of God? It was handed down to us. People in Africa or New Guinea, etc. who never heard of Jesus, don’t just start spontaneously having faith.
 
CMatt25 said:
How do we even know the Bible is real to begin with vs lets say holy books of another faith? The answer. Our Faith.
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I have to disagree with this, Matt. We do not believe that the Bible is the word of God based on our faith that it is the word of God. We believe the Bible is the word of God because Jesus said it was the word of God. Without the authority of God Himself behind the Scriptures, you would fall into a morass of subjectivity and circular argumentation.
 
qui_est_ce said:
I know some people who do BSF. They say it’s a really good Bible study.
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IMHO it is the best. I also taught in it for 8 years. Wonderful part of my life and i am so thankful to God He directed my path there.
 
qui_est_ce said:
:eek: You think the Apostles didn’t mirror their teacher???
Faith doesn’t come out of the blue, it must be based on something. What is the base of your faith? How did you come to know it?
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Did I say that? The basis of my faith is what I read and believe and understand in the Bible.
 
CMatt25 said:
How do you know to believe you or the Catholic Church or the ECFs have/had all the truth?
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Because of Christ’s promise to Peter. 🙂

If we believe Christ, then we must believe that what He said to Peter was true, and that He will never break His promise to Peter, nor to Peter’s successors, our Catholic Popes.

Otherwise, what does it mean, to have faith in Christ? 🤷

If we say that Christ was mistaken, or that He made a false promise (ie: He didn’t know that there were going to be bad Popes, or He was only making nice-sounding words without really meaning them), then we are denying that Christ is trustworthy - if we say that Christ is not trustworthy, then how can we say that we have faith in Christ?
 
TriuneUnity said:
I have to disagree with this, Matt. We do not believe that the Bible is the word of God based on our faith that it is the word of God. We believe the Bible is the word of God because Jesus said it was the word of God. Without the authority of God Himself behind the Scriptures, you would fall into a morass of subjectivity and circular argumentation.
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I understand but why then do we as Christians believe Jesus is our Lord and Savior and Jews for instance do not? For me it is because I put my faith in the NT testimony of Jesus and their faith is not placed there. I look all around and see a Creator in my midst. But the atheist does not have the same faith.
 
tweetymom said:
IMHO it is the best. I also taught in it for 8 years. Wonderful part of my life and i am so thankful to God He directed my path there.
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I had a similar experience in 2004. It was as if I was emptied and recharged at the same time. I knew I would never be the same. But I was already a Bible believing Catholic, ever since I can remember.

I guess this speaks more to your post about your experience in BSF when you were 38.
 
CMatt25 said:
I understand but why then do we as Christians believe Jesus is our Lord and Savior and Jews for instance do not? For me it is because I put my faith in the NT testimony of Jesus and their faith is not placed there. I look all around and see a Creator in my midst. But the atheist does not have the same faith.
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That’s true, Matt. However, we can put our faith in the NT testimony because it is also backed up by pure historical testimony. Even the most secular historian would say that the NT is, generally, historically reliable. We know that the early Christians witnessed to the resurrection of Christ, the Jewish leadership never disputed His miracles (they attributed them to Satan), and the early Christians were martyred for their profession of Christ, for example. Therefore, if Jesus performed miracles, claimed to be God, and rose from the dead, then we can trust that He is God and what He stated about the nature of Scriptural revelation is true.

Faith plays an element in what we believe, however, it is the object of our faith that is important, not our faith itself. Our faith just agrees with objective fact and places its trust in those objective facts.
 
jmcrae said:
Because of Christ’s promise to Peter. 🙂

If we believe Christ, then we must believe that what He said to Peter was true, and that He will never break His promise to Peter, nor to Peter’s successors, our Catholic Popes.

Otherwise, what does it mean, to have faith in Christ? 🤷

If we say that Christ was mistaken, or that He made a false promise (ie: He didn’t know that there were going to be bad Popes, or He was only making nice-sounding words without really meaning them), then we are denying that Christ is trustworthy - if we say that Christ is not trustworthy, then how can we say that we have faith in Christ?
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Faith in Christ for me means He is my Lord and Savior. A faith which unites us all as the body of Christ.
 
qui_est_ce said:
You said students don’t always mirror their teachers, so yes, you did say that.
So you are basing your faith on the teachings of the Apostles, right?
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No I said do ALL students? I base my faith on what I understand the writings of the Apostles to mean as I trust so do you.
 
CMatt25 said:
Faith in Christ for me means He is my Lord and Savior. A faith which unites us all as the body of Christ.
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Yes, but it can’t be called “faith” if we don’t believe that the things He said are actually true. If His promise to Peter is not trustworthy, then why trust Him to be your Lord and Saviour? 🙂
 
CMatt25 said:
No I don’t. In post #444 I said of course truth exists independently of what we believe. Regardless of whether your beliefs or another’s beliefs or non beliefs are right or wrong, there is a truth. All we can do is strive to follow what we believe is our understanding of truth, trust in His mercy and understanding should we be wrong, and we will know when we meet Him or when He returns again.
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Matt, our understanding of Truth? should we be wrong, we will know…

Matt, Jesus calls us into obedience and not understanding. obedience to the authority He placed in His Church. The Church is His Body. you cannot separate the Head from the Body. the Body has to teach the Truth because Jesus is the Head. if the Head is the Truth so is the Body. there is no room for teaching error, it cant. that is why He said: I will build my Church." His Church has the guarantee of the Truth. it doesnt matter how many people leave. the Body stays intact free from stain. it doesnt mean that we the people are always going to be perfect and obedient but we must stay within the Body and repent every time we commit a sin. and we are not to judge anyone in the Body. we must lift a brother when he falls. Martin luther did this, he disobeyed the Body, he judge and condemned the Body of Christ. he went outside the Body and tought heresies. today many follow him and his heretical teachings. martin luther has no authority whatsoever to teach. the Bible was taking from the CC. it was not given to him. the power and Truth was given to His Church alone. no one can take this away from the Church, no one. what God gives, no man can take it away.

have you read the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man? what does father Abraham tell the rich man? do you know?

when Jesus returns, you will not see Mercy, what you will see is judgement upon those who disobeyed His Teachings, specially His Church.

If you notice on the judgement many will say: Lord have i not done this, and this? Jesus will say to them: “depart from me, for I dont know you.” these are people who believed in Jesus. is it not? think about it.
 
CMatt25 said:
No I said do ALL students? I base my faith on what I understand the writings of the Apostles to mean as I trust so do you.
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What is the point of posing that? Are you implying St Ignatius and St. Polycarp did not mirror the teachings of the Apostles? If so, then you have no basis for your faith, as you dismiss the historical record of the Teachings of the Early Church, which includes those commissioned by the Apostles to go out to all the world and spread the good news.

You can’t even witness to me, because I can’t be sure you are mirroring correctly. Me and my Bible was never taught in the history of Christianity until the past 200 years. People couldn’t read. There were no Bible studies except among scholars.

[BIBLEDRB]2 peter 1:20[/BIBLEDRB]
 
CMatt25 said:
Faith in Christ for me means He is my Lord and Savior. A faith which unites us all as the body of Christ.
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No Matt, the Truth(Jesus and all He tought) should unite us. everybody have faith. are we all united because we have faith?
 
It has to be the Cathloic Church all the rest did not get here until 1500 years later amd same much later
 
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