Who should be guiding the Children through the Sacrements?

[julieanne]

Have I missed something?

Our Daughter is making her First Reconciliation Sunday. She has had one metting with Father and her school (Catholic). Has touched on the subject in religion. That’s it. A workbook was sent home for me to go over with her. Don’t get me wrong, but I was guided more so by the priests and nuns in my schooling and church.

I am very proactive in my daughters faith journey. Maybe it is I feel I am unworthy to be teaching her. Most of me thinks that they are not doing much of this at school because we are very rural and our enrollment is 3/4 Baptist and 1/4 Catholic. If you can believe it we have actually reached 90 students.

From what I have heard about other Sacrements, they are handled the same way. Should I put her in the CCD classes availible? I really thought sending her to Catholic school would make CCD redundant.

Our pastor states that this is how the church is now doing Sacrements. Could this be true?

 

[netmilsmom]

julieanne:

Have I missed something?

Our Daughter is making her First Reconciliation Sunday. She has had one metting with Father and her school (Catholic). Has touched on the subject in religion. That’s it. A workbook was sent home for me to go over with her. Don’t get me wrong, but I was guided more so by the priests and nuns in my schooling and church.

I am very proactive in my daughters faith journey. Maybe it is I feel I am unworthy to be teaching her. Most of me thinks that they are not doing much of this at school because we are very rural and our enrollment is 3/4 Baptist and 1/4 Catholic. If you can believe it we have actually reached 90 students.

From what I have heard about other Sacrements, they are handled the same way. Should I put her in the CCD classes availible? I really thought sending her to Catholic school would make CCD redundant.

Our pastor states that this is how the church is now doing Sacrements. Could this be true?

Oh Dear!
My friend, you have it tough, but I don’t understand, is she in Catholic school? And they are passing the instruction for Sacraments to YOU??

 

[julieanne]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

Oh Dear!
My friend, you have it tough, but I don’t understand, is she in Catholic school? And they are passing the instruction for Sacraments to YOU??

Yes her school is Catholic. This is how it has gone. We, the parents had a 40 minute group meeting with Father T. on forgiveness. Where we were given the the workbooks for our children and were told to be a least to chapter 3 when the children went to thier meeting. The Children had a 40 minute meeting with Father T. It consisted of 5 minutes of verbal quiz question on the Ten Commandments and the rest of the time the children were lead to the confessional to see Father T. and a teacher do a “mock” confession. I know all of this because I stayed as did all of the other confused parents.

 

[kmktexas]

Yes, she said the school was Catholic and that the Sacrament prep was left primarily to the parents.

Two years ago, I was looking at schools. The most popular local Catholic school is also the closest to home. The enrollment person there told me that while they did teach religion, it wasn’t to the extent that CCE could be skipped. In other words the Religious ed in the CATHOLIC school covered less religion content than the one hour a week parish program!!! Needless to say, we did not enroll.

My neices are in a nearby parish. CCE is mandatory for the year of and the year before Sacraments (First Pennance and First Communion, then Confirmation). However, for the 2nd graders, nothing was taught about the sacraments. There were two meeting where all the parents were required to attend. They were given workbooks - one each for Confession and First Communion. That’s it, except for the rehearsal. They did NOTHING to insure that the kids were prepared. Needless to say, many of the kids were absolutely lost at Mass.

 

[julieanne]

I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago. My parents had plenty of school choices. I on the other hand have only one choice for my daughter. The nearest Catholic school is 2 hours away. I am still lost on whether I should or shouldn’t be confused about this? I was the one in the meeting that asked if they were going to prepare in school and was shocked to find the answer was basically no!

 

[netmilsmom]

julieanne:

Yes her school is Catholic. This is how it has gone. We, the parents had a 40 minute group meeting with Father T. on forgiveness. Where we were given the the workbooks for our children and were told to be a least to chapter 3 when the children went to thier meeting. The Children had a 40 minute meeting with Father T. It consisted of 5 minutes of verbal quiz question on the Ten Commandments and the rest of the time the children were lead to the confessional to see Father T. and a teacher do a “mock” confession. I know all of this because I stayed as did all of the other confused parents.

Wow! It was sure different with the Felician Sisters when I was in Catholic school!
All I can say is look at it as a blessing. Who knows what they would be teaching the children anyway.
We have a very conservative parish. Our CCD classes start with a decade of the rosary. Very traditional. We use the Faith and Life series available here

cuf.org/faith.htm

My daughter is in second grade as well. She will make First Holy Communion in May. These books are wonderful.
I think I would begin to teach my own child all the way around.
Maybe I’m old fashion but I think that if one is paying the big bucks for a Catholic school, expecting a Catholic education is not too much.
I’ll pray for you and your daughter. I’m sure she is an angel and deserves the best!

 

[Catholic90]

My kids go to a Catholic school.

The sacraments are introduced, but the primary TEACHING part is the parent’s responsibility. (After all, we are called to be the primary religious teacher of our children.) We have 3 meetings that we or we and the kids attend over a 6 week period (this is for both 1st Comm. and reconciliation). We do reconciliation in 4th grade. For about 3 weeks, 2 hours a week, they do nothing but learn about the commandments. At one of the meetings, the priest and RE director go over the practical stuff. They (priest and RE director) also meet with the classes shortly before reconciliation to answer questions, etc.

Religion is taught over the rest of the school year for about 30 minutes each day. Plus they attend a weekly mass and participate in several service projects over the year. They are quite involved. They also offer 2-3 reconciliation opportunities for the older grades during school throughout the year.

Compared to CCD, which meets for 1 hour each Wednesday, I firmly believe our Catholic school kids receive a lot more instruction.

 

[netmilsmom]

Catholic90:

My kids go to a Catholic school.

The sacraments are introduced, but the primary TEACHING part is the parent’s responsibility. (After all, we are called to be the primary religious teacher of our children.)
Compared to CCD, which meets for 1 hour each Wednesday, I firmly believe our Catholic school kids receive a lot more instruction.

You are paying for a product and then accepting that you must do the work for it?

I have to ask, how much are you paying for that education?

I would not accept “Some assembly required” when I’m paying $1,800-$2,400 a year to educate my child.

Homeschool, Homeschool, Homeschool. Actually, you are doing it anyway for the most important part!!

 

[pipoluojo]

Who should be guiding the children through the Sacraments? The parents of course!

You complain about what you think is deficient in the formation that your child receives at school or in religious classes when such teachings do not reflect exactly what you believe. That makes you the best teacher your child can ever have; the only teacher whose teachings best reflect what you want.

No matter how good the Catholic school our children attend or how much we pay for their formation, in spiritual formation, the parents are the first, the best and permanent teachers. All others, includung the parish priest (I daresay) only supplement what the parent instils in the child.

 

[netmilsmom]

pipoluojo:

Who should be guiding the children through the Sacraments? The parents of course!

You complain about what you think is deficient in the formation that your child receives at school or in religious classes when such teachings do not reflect exactly what you believe. That makes you the best teacher your child can ever have; the only teacher whose teachings best reflect what you want.

No matter how good the Catholic school our children attend or how much we pay for their formation, in spiritual formation, the parents are the first, the best and permanent teachers. All others, includung the parish priest (I daresay) only supplement what the parent instils in the child.

I am a homeschooling parent so I agree with you to a point, however, what I see here is that they are not getting a product they paid for.
If a parent does not follow the teachings of the church, no amount of Catholic training by a school will overcome it. I understand this. It is our job to teach by example, it is their job to teach the academics.

Read this paragraph by the mother again…
“Our Daughter is making her First Reconciliation Sunday. She has had one metting with Father and her school (Catholic). Has touched on the subject in religion. That’s it. A workbook was sent home for me to go over with her. Don’t get me wrong, but I was guided more so by the priests and nuns in my schooling and church.”

What exactly ARE they teaching during school time?
I had the same problem when sending my daughter to a CCD class in a Charistmatic parish. I’m paying for Cathechism, not “God made the Flowers and God made the trees”.

What if the parents don’t has a good Catholic backround? What if they are struggling in their own teachings. They are paying for their children to be taught correctly.

 

[puzzleannie]

It is and always has been the teaching of the Church, and is forcefully stated in the General Directory for Catechesis, that parents are the primary educators of their children in the transmission of faith and morals, as well as academics. Schools assist the parents in transmitting academic learning. Parishes assist parents in teaching the fundamentals of Catholic faith and practice, but do not ever supplant the God-given rights and responsibilities of the parents.

Parents should vigilantly oversee the moral and faith training their children are receiving. Children do not learn about reconciliation and forgiveness in a class. They learn it in the context of family relationships where rules are broken, parents are disobeyed, children are sometimes punished unjustly, brothers and sisters fight, adults have arguments. There children see parents kissing to make up, apologizing when they were wrong, and are assisted in mending quarrels with brothers and sisters. that is where they learn to pray, around the dining room table saying grace, night prayers when they are tucked in, family rosary, in daddy’s lap listening to bible stories, and most of all being taken to Mass and taught what is going on and how to behave at an early age.

If you look carefully at the workbook provided to you, it will most likely have some scripture verses about reconciliation and forgiveness to read, discuss and share. It will have a simple examination of conscience you can guide the child through, role playing works best. It will tell you about the history of the sacrament. It will tell stories to help children relate the gospel message to their own lives. most of all it will invite discussion among parents and children. It will also give suggestions to parents on how to model reconciliation in home life.

It should be used over a period of weeks, before the next parent meeting, and your attitude it is all important. If you treat it like a chore, it will be an onerous duty. If you treat it like a valuable opportunity for quality time with your child, it will be a joy.

Your Catholic school or CCD program has no doubt tried to do this through a series of parent meetings, but has been disappointed by the lack of participation by the parents, due to demands of work, business, child care etc., and has adopted this means as the best solution to bringing about the desired dialogue and teaching oppportunity for parents and children.

This whole theory is flawed of course because it assumes parents themselves have been adequately catechised as children and have contintued their faith formation and spiritual growth as adults. It also assumes parents are praying with their children and taking them to Mass. Unfortunately, even with children in Catholic schools, the proportion of parents who can be so described is very low. The school or parish tries to remedy such deficiencies, but without parent cooperation their chances of success are very low.

Congratulations for being one of the few concerned parents who place a priority on their child’s preparation for the sacraments and learning of the Faith. Your child will have untold advantages and graces because of your care and concern.

 

[puzzleannie]

I forgot to add that canonically speaking it is the parents who bring infants and young children to the sacraments and as with baptism, the children receive the faith through their parents’ desire for it. Once the children are of catechetical age (we used to call it the age of reason, 7 or 2nd grade usually, not before) they are considered adults for the purposes of requesting and preparing for the sacraments of initiation. the pastor, through the catechist DRE or whoever is agent is, must be assured that the child understands the nature of the sacrament, the reality of what is happening, and truly desires to receive it (to the extent of his age and ability to grasp the essentials.)

The parents, who know the child best, are the best ones to determine this state of readiness, so the must be intimately part of the process of preparation. Just a reminder, when helping a child prepare for first penance, remind him NOT to tell his sins to anyone except the priest. He should however be honest with his parents when he has done something wrong they need to know about. This is a distinction very hard to teach in a class. So is the concept of conscience. It is a process of growth, not an academic subject. Seeing the parents receive the sacrament regularly is the best preparation their is. If you have the chance, when he goes for the first time, you go first, it will greatly increase his comfort level. Also, do not pass along to your child any anxiety or doubts you have about the sacrament.

 

[puzzleannie]

What is the content and structure of the religious instruction they receive in their Catholic school? How many hours a week? Are they following the diocesan guidelines for what they teach at each grade level? Are they using textbooks approved and in line with the CCC?

My bet is that by the end of 4th grade they have been introduced to God, Jesus, the Trinity, Creation accounts, sin and the fall, the commandments and beatitudes, the sacraments of initiation, and briefly the other sacraments, and the Mass. Also basic prayers and practices and the rosary.
if not you need to let your diocesan office of Catholic schools know about it.
It is definitely the parents’ job to teach the prayers, which are learned by frequently praying together as a family, not in a class.

 

[puzzleannie]

julieanne:

Have I missed something?

From what I have heard about other Sacrements, they are handled the same way. .
QUOTE]
don’t base your judgement on what the school and parish are doing by hearsay, I know from what you say you are very involved with your child, find out know exactly what is being taught and how (with such a small school you should also have some concern about the thoroughness of the academic teaching. There are numerous websites and sources for getting involved in your child’s Catholic school and how they should be run).

I hope we have erased your doubts about being worthy or qualified to teach your child about the faith. You are worthy by virtue of being her parent, and qualified by virtue of your own faith. The books you were given were to help you by giving you a systematic way to do it and bolster your confidence.

 

[netmilsmom]

puzzleannie:

It is and always has been the teaching of the Church, and is forcefully stated in the General Directory for Catechesis, that parents are the primary educators of their children in the transmission of faith and morals, as well as academics. Schools assist the parents in transmitting academic learning. Parishes assist parents in teaching the fundamentals of Catholic faith and practice, but do not ever supplant the God-given rights and responsibilities of the parents.

Parents should vigilantly oversee the moral and faith training their children are receiving. Children do not learn about reconciliation and forgiveness in a class. They learn it in the context of family relationships where rules are broken, parents are disobeyed, children are sometimes punished unjustly, brothers and sisters fight, adults have arguments. There children see parents kissing to make up, apologizing when they were wrong, and are assisted in mending quarrels with brothers and sisters. that is where they learn to pray, around the dining room table saying grace, night prayers when they are tucked in, family rosary, in daddy’s lap listening to bible stories, and most of all being taken to Mass and taught what is going on and how to behave at an early age.

If you look carefully at the workbook provided to you, it will most likely have some scripture verses about reconciliation and forgiveness to read, discuss and share. It will have a simple examination of conscience you can guide the child through, role playing works best. It will tell you about the history of the sacrament. It will tell stories to help children relate the gospel message to their own lives. most of all it will invite discussion among parents and children. It will also give suggestions to parents on how to model reconciliation in home life.

It should be used over a period of weeks, before the next parent meeting, and your attitude it is all important. If you treat it like a chore, it will be an onerous duty. If you treat it like a valuable opportunity for quality time with your child, it will be a joy.

Your Catholic school or CCD program has no doubt tried to do this through a series of parent meetings, but has been disappointed by the lack of participation by the parents, due to demands of work, business, child care etc., and has adopted this means as the best solution to bringing about the desired dialogue and teaching oppportunity for parents and children.

This whole theory is flawed of course because it assumes parents themselves have been adequately catechised as children and have contintued their faith formation and spiritual growth as adults. It also assumes parents are praying with their children and taking them to Mass. Unfortunately, even with children in Catholic schools, the proportion of parents who can be so described is very low. The school or parish tries to remedy such deficiencies, but without parent cooperation their chances of success are very low.

Congratulations for being one of the few concerned parents who place a priority on their child’s preparation for the sacraments and learning of the Faith. Your child will have untold advantages and graces because of your care and concern.

Why pay for Catholic training classes at all?
Pull the kids out, get a good set of Cathechism books and teach them yourself.

My Uncle is a Bishop and when I told him that I was changing parishes to get a better education for my children and homeschooling, he stated to me, “A lot of Catholics are doing that now. Like yourself, many are disillusioned with the religion courses that they’re seeing in the parochial schools.”
He spoke on EWTN regarding a series of articles he wrote on The Cathechism of the Catholic Church. Now I see why. The entire second grade lesson plans for the St. Joseph’s Cathechism is on Reconcilliation and Communion. What are these people teaching in the classroom?

Have parents living the Cathechism is the best teacher but it does not take the responsibility off the DRE or school.

 

[puzzleannie]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

You are paying for a product and then accepting that you must do the work for it?

I have to ask, how much are you paying for that education?

I would not accept “Some assembly required” when I’m paying $1,800-$2,400 a year to educate my child.

Homeschool, Homeschool, Homeschool. Actually, you are doing it anyway for the most important part!!

faith formation is not a product it is a process of growth, where does the child do most of his growing, in the family
who did God designate as the ideal persons to hand on the faith to children
the parents, did you see DREs in the garden of Eden?

 

[puzzleannie]

The best Catholic school probably has religion class for 1/2 hour a day (which is why their school day has to be longer than public school) if it is more it is a superior Catholic school, and probably tries to assure that the truth about Church history is injected in history class, Catholic morality is respected in science & health etc. but most of the day is spent in academic subjects, which is what you are paying for. Catholic school children have historically done better academically than public school children across the board.

Hopefully Catholic morality, values, spirituality permeate all activities of the school, including classtime.

CCD is between one and 2 hours a week, in line with the school year, from 26-30 session (half a year)
that is not very much time to transmit the book knowledge that is required to understand the Catholic Faith, to introduce scripture and salvation history, to teach the liturgy, sacraments and prayer.

the Catholic Faith is something lived, breathed with every waking and sleeping moment of the day, it is not an academic subject, although some things like theology can be taught that way. There is absolutely nothing the school or CCD can do to substitute for parents who pray together, believe, let children see their beliefs put into practice, handle conflicts in loving ways rather than the violent belittling ways shown on TV, pray with their children, ask blessing for meals, give thanks and praise to God for all the gifts and incidents of daily life, demonstrate moral decision making, enforce consequences of disobedient or immoral actions, and model the way faith is lived.

You are not paying the school or parish to transmit the Catholic faith, you are paying for academic instruction, religious education on those topics that lend themselves to didactic teaching. We cannot do it for you. If the parents do not participate, are not living in accord with Catholic faith and morality, sending them to CCD or Catholic school is a waste of time and money. the best that can happen is that the tiny mustard seed will be planted, and the Holy Spirit will water it and make it flower later in the child’s life.

 

[julieanne]

pipoluojo:

Who should be guiding the children through the Sacraments? The parents of course!

You complain about what you think is deficient in the formation that your child receives at school or in religious classes when such teachings do not reflect exactly what you believe. That makes you the best teacher your child can ever have; the only teacher whose teachings best reflect what you want.

No matter how good the Catholic school our children attend or how much we pay for their formation, in spiritual formation, the parents are the first, the best and permanent teachers. All others, includung the parish priest (I daresay) only supplement what the parent instils in the child.

First, I would not call my confusion complaining. I do take a very active roll in my daughters faith journey. Keeping in mind that she is learning from my every action.

After thinking about this last night I came to the conclusion that my concern really is what differences I am seeing in Catholic schools in compariison to my own experience. I remember being guided by my parents while at the same time spending many hours being guided by teachers, nuns and priests. I remember spending several weeks on the comandments and the beatitudes.
I remember MANY practices for all of the sacrements. They were intense. Not only did my parents give me direction, but it was reinforced at school… NOT JUST TOUCHED ON!

It was a sad realization that the problem may be that this Catholic school is more interested in enrollment. It came to mind that at PTO meetings we spend an awful lot of time discussing how to up enrollment as apossed to how can we better nurture our cildren through thier faith journey. From the religion workbook pages my daughter brings home, it seems as if she is being taught a “generic” religion. ( Please pardon my choice of words, but I could think of no other.) The workbook seems to have more of a “generic” lesson to it with a hint of Catholisism.
So in essence I feel as though I am sending her to a Christian school over seen by a priest. Why have H.R. Catholic school on the brick wall outside if that is not what is on the inside. Why not call it a Christian school?

I do not think it matters how much you pay in tuition. So I will not answer that. I think what matters most is that I have made the committment to God and my daughter that she be raised Catholic. I thought that sending her to this particular school would only strenghthen what I have already put before her.

 

[puzzleannie]

julieanne:

After thinking about this last night I came to the conclusion that my concern really is what differences I am seeing in Catholic schools in compariison to my own experience. I remember being guided by my parents while at the same time spending many hours being guided by teachers, nuns and priests. I remember spending several weeks on the comandments and the beatitudes…

the difference is there are no, or few, priests, nuns and religious brothers teaching today in Catholic schools, because they abandoned their vocations in droves for reasons yet to be adequately explained except in terms of sheer selfishness.

So no Catholic school experience today is going to replicate what we remember. The Catholic school teachers are lay people, just like you parents, who happen to have education degrees, and have taken some continuing education with the diocese to certify them to teach religion. If it is similar to what catechists get in our diocese it is very minimal and basic. So number one, as far as teaching religion, if you are a practising Catholic you are probably at least as well qualified as your child’s teacher.

Number two, you are going to PTSO which is more than most parents do, again I congratulate you and salute you. For your small growing school it is right that you get concerned about the level of teaching and teacher education, in all subjects as well as religion, and in the textbooks being used. I repeat, if they are being taught a generic Christianity without a Catholic textbook in conformity with the Catechism, by teachers who are not themselves committed, pracising faith-filled Catholics, you are wasting your time and money.

Could you get hold of a religion book and let me know (PM if you want to discuss further out of this thread).

there is or should be a diocesan office of education which oversees all Catholic schools, or it should be subject to oversight by a religious order if it is an order school. Contact them to find out if they are in conformity.

 

[netmilsmom]

julieanne:

After thinking about this last night I came to the conclusion that my concern really is what differences I am seeing in Catholic schools in compariison to my own experience. I remember being guided by my parents while at the same time spending many hours being guided by teachers, nuns and priests. I remember spending several weeks on the comandments and the beatitudes.
I remember MANY practices for all of the sacrements. They were intense. Not only did my parents give me direction, but it was reinforced at school… NOT JUST TOUCHED ON!

I do not think it matters how much you pay in tuition. So I will not answer that. I think what matters most is that I have made the committment to God and my daughter that she be raised Catholic. I thought that sending her to this particular school would only strenghthen what I have already put before her.

I agree with you.
You are a great mom to take this much of an interest in the Catholic education of your daughter. You pay for a Catholic Education, you as a parent teach a faith formation by your actions as I can see you already have.
It’s a cop out to say that because we don’t have nuns, our children will not get the same education. I attended Catholic schools and had lay teachers. They taught just as well as the nuns, with more understanding of the questions we had because they had children of their own who asked the same questions.
If a Catholic school can’t come up with a Catholic education, then YES it should be called a Christian School. I understand what a great education a parochial school gives, but if they say Catholic, it should be Catholic. Catholic Prayers, Catholic traditions, etc. Otherwise why not send our children to any good Christian school?