Who Should Govern?

[gksaoh]

More than a generation ago, American corporations realized that diversity on the boards of directors was sound policy. Today probably every large company has representative of minorities and women on their boards.

What is good for General Motors might be beneficial for the Catholic church. Women have already been given responsible, decision making positions in most American diocese partly because of shortage of priests. However, the Vatican lags. Although most offices in the Roman curia do not require Holy Orders to do their work, women hold less than 5 decision making jobs. This narrow personnel policy is not representative of church membership and results in unrealistic decisions.

Laymen have been cardinals in the past. When will we have the first woman cardinal?

 

[Michael_Welter]

What about the scriptural directive that women should not have authority over men? Scripture is the Word of God, so we can’t ignore it.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

gksaoh:

More than a generation ago, American corporations realized that diversity on the boards of directors was sound policy. Today probably every large company has representative of minorities and women on their boards.

What is good for General Motors might be beneficial for the Catholic church. Women have already been given responsible, decision making positions in most American diocese partly because of shortage of priests. However, the Vatican lags. Although most offices in the Roman curia do not require Holy Orders to do their work, women hold less than 5 decision making jobs. This narrow personnel policy is not representative of church membership and results in unrealistic decisions.

Laymen have been cardinals in the past. When will we have the first woman cardinal?

I am not doubting you, but can you please provide some proof that layman have been cardinals in the past.

But lets say for the moment that you are correct. It is also fact that any of the cardinals can be elected to the papacy, really any baptized male can. So what do you do with the women cardinals you propose who can not be pope. How long till someone starts to fight for that? It is a slippery slope.

Another point is, the Cardinals do not run the Church, the Pope does. Yes the Cardinals may head the Congregations of the curia in the Vatican but none of them have any “power” outside of the papacy. The pope already has women advisors, he even had them when he headed the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith.

There are women there, they just are not the type to trumpet their positions.

As for the so call diversity on coporate boards, thats a joke. Just about every member of a coporate board comes from the coporate world and sits on at least one other, if not more, boards.

Added to that is the recent mess that coporate boards have gotten into, I do not think they are a good example for anyone to follow, especially when the Church was instituted by God and is protected by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Big_Easy_Big]

gksaok,

Your argument has a serious flaw. General Motors is a large, multi-national, for profit corporation. The Catholic Church is - well the Catholic Church.

The Church is governed by tradition, scripture, dogma, faith and canon law. The end result or purpose of the Church is salvation.

GM and other secular entities have many varied purposes, to which women can and do make valid contributions. Women make a valid contribution to the Church but their participation is limited.

For the Church to change and allow women the role(s) you suggest would be going against all the teaching of Christ. Not going to happen, therefore debate is fruitless.

 

[Big_Easy_Big]

Peggy Frye
Catholic Answers Apologist Join Date: May 4, 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 359

Re: Can the next pope open the way for women priests?

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The Church has spoken definitively on the subject of women’s ordination.

“Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.”
Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, 1994

The Church will never ordain women. Never, ever. Period. Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is an infallible teaching of the Church. No pope has the authority to change an infallible teaching of the Church. Ever.

Sadly, dissenters never tire of finding ways to twist and manipulate the words and meanings of this document (Ordinatio Sacerdotalis) to fit their agenda and beliefs. But the truth remains the same: Women will never be priests.

Let’s pray that priests and bishops will quell the dissent by heeding the words of St. Paul: “Remind them of these things and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers.
2 Timothy 2:14

Again on the infallibility of Ordinatio Sacerdotalis:

“This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.”

The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, approved this Reply, adopted in the ordinary session of this Congregation, and ordered it to be published.

Rome, from the offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on the Feast of the Apostles SS. Simon and Jude, October 28, 1995.
Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Prefect
Tarcisio Bertone

Further reading:
Curia

 

[KathleenElsie]

gksaoh:

More than a generation ago, American corporations realized that diversity on the boards of directors was sound policy. Today probably every large company has representative of minorities and women on their boards.

What is good for General Motors might be beneficial for the Catholic church. Women have already been given responsible, decision making positions in most American diocese partly because of shortage of priests. However, the Vatican lags. Although most offices in the Roman curia do not require Holy Orders to do their work, women hold less than 5 decision making jobs. This narrow personnel policy is not representative of church membership and results in unrealistic decisions.

Laymen have been cardinals in the past. When will we have the first woman cardinal?

No disrespect meant,but, God’s Church is not a corporation. The Church does not follow the worlds social mores. The Church follows God’s word and not man’s wishes.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

ByzCath:

I am not doubting you, but can you please provide some proof that layman have been cardinals in the past.

Byz, it OP’s right, there used to be lay cardinals, there were some as late as the 1800’s, if I’m not mistaken. It’s been discontinued.
I’ll try to do some research.

I don’t see this happening, women in the cardinalate. The fems
would never be happy anyway, as the pope wouldn’t elevate someone like Sr. Joan Chichester, he’d elevate someone like Blessed Mother Teresa or Mother Angelica, both of whom took a rather dim view of feminism.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

ByzCath:

I am not doubting you, but can you please provide some proof that layman have been cardinals in the past.

Here’s a link, I’ll look for more.

cats.ohiou.edu/~Chastain/ac/anton.htm

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

JKirkLVNV:

Here’s a link, I’ll look for more.

cats.ohiou.edu/~Chastain/ac/anton.htm

Thanks for the article but it is about a deacon who was made a cardinal. A deacon is not a layman, he is clergy.

I know that in the history of the Church that it was not only bishops who were made cardinals. Up until very recently there was a priest who was a cardinal.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

ByzCath:

Thanks for the article but it is about a deacon who was made a cardinal. A deacon is not a layman, he is clergy.

I know that in the history of the Church that it was not only bishops who were made cardinals. Up until very recently there was a priest who was a cardinal.

Whoops, missed that, was he a deacon? There were lay Cardinals, but I’ll have to look some more.

Avery Cardinal Dulles asked to be exempt from being consecrated a bishop because of age when he was elevated by HH Pope John Paul II, may he rest in peace. So he’s not a bishop.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

JKirkLVNV:

Whoops, missed that, was he a deacon? There were lay Cardinals, but I’ll have to look some more.

Avery Cardinal Dulles asked to be exempt from being consecrated a bishop because of age when he was elevated by HH Pope John Paul II, may he rest in peace. So he’s not a bishop.

Thats the one I was thinking of.