Who spoke when the voice came from Heaven?

  • Thread starter Thread starter DL82
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

DL82

Guest
In Mark 1:11 and Matthew 3:17, the Baptism of the Lord, and again in Matthew 17:5 at the Transfiguration, a voice speaks from heaven: “This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased”.

If the Father always speaks through His Word when He speaks to humankind, and Jesus is the Word made flesh, then who is speaking for the Father in these verses?

I’m sure some theologian has addressed this problem in the past, but am hoping someone here can point me in the right direction.
 
Presumably, it’s God the Father in heaven whose voice is heard. It seems to be a single-mediation communication. You say that God always speaks through his Word, but God also speaks one-to-one without mediators, and he also speaks through his Spirit.

Therefore, the question (at least to me) becomes:

Who is the heavenly voice describing? I think it can be seen as the Holy Spirit who is descending on Jesus. The traditional interpretation is that God is telling Jesus and/or the crowd that Jesus has won divine favor and is being rewarded by a public proclamation of his sonship.

I don’t dispute that, but I see no good reason not to also imagine that the heavenly voice was *also * refering to the “Spirit Like A Dove” who at that moment was descending, and would soon “roost” (Luke), on Jesus.

And why not? Inasmuch as Jesus’ speaking (and teaching) can be said to not only be inspired by the Spirit, but to actually be self-revelations of, and by, the Spirit, we can say that the Spirit, like Jesus, has a “son-like” role in his ministry. The Gospels support this:

Both Jesus’ friends and foes agreed that Jesus “had” - possessed, or was possessed by - a spirit. His foes called that spirit “Beelzebul”. His friends called it “a” - or “the” - Holy Spirit.

This spirit “drives” Jesus (Mark) into the wilderness for a typically “shamanic” ordeal of prayer and fasting, wherein he battles and defeats another, evil spirit (the Devil).

By this holy spirit, Jesus drives out other “unclean” spirits. His enemies take note of this, accusing Jesus of “having” an evil spirit. Jesus replies with the famous “a house divided against itself cannot stand”.

Never does Jesus deny that he “has” a holy spirit - in fact, in one famous text, Jesus is depicted as “rejoicing in the Spirit” … and at one point he insists that the only unforgivable sin is the one “against the Holy Spirit”.

Therefore, functionally, the Spirit, too, has taken on a “son-like”, Messianic role. Jesus’ spirit guides him and enables him to prophesy. Both Jesus and the Spirit are in league, establishing God’s Kingdom, in tandem, on earth.

If this seems a bit far-fetched: just try to imagine Jesus’ ministry without the Holy Spirit; try to imagine the Apostolic ministry without the Holy Spirit; try to imagine Pentecost… well, you see where that goes.

God the Trinitarian Son is incarnate in Jesus’ human “vehicle”. God the Trinitarian Spirit descends to assist the *human * Son, thus functioning as a kind of auxiliary “son” - and a kind of “brother” in the furtherance of Jesus’ work and teaching.

I don’t find it strange at all that God would grant “Sonship” to the descending Spirit - IF we limit that role to a temporary earthly function designed to assist Jesus’ ministry.

So the Gospels’ scene of the Baptism/Descent of the Spirit could be seen as the Father in heaven publicly approving and identifying Jesus as the Son on earth … and also designating a “son-like” function to the Holy Spirit as a seal on Jesus’ ministry.
 
In Mark 1:11 and Matthew 3:17, the Baptism of the Lord, and again in Matthew 17:5 at the Transfiguration, a voice speaks from heaven: “This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased”.

If the Father always speaks through His Word when He speaks to humankind, and Jesus is the Word made flesh, then who is speaking for the Father in these verses?

I’m sure some theologian has addressed this problem in the past, but am hoping someone here can point me in the right direction.
As Steve says, it’s incorrect to say that “the Father always speaks through His Word”, if you take that to mean that someone has to speak for him. There are many places in the bible where God speaks directly to the people. He spoke directly to Moses, Adam and Eve and many others.

However, starting in the NT it is much less commonly shown that God the Father speaks directly to us. The main reason for that is Jesus, the Word made flesh, was here to speak for him. So while it was much less common after Jesus started his ministry, it did still happen in the NT.
 
Who spoke to Abraham, Lot, Noah, The prophets, and John the Baptist?
 
In Mark 1:11 and Matthew 3:17, the Baptism of the Lord, and again in Matthew 17:5 at the Transfiguration, a voice speaks from heaven: “This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased”.

If the Father always speaks through His Word when He speaks to humankind, and Jesus is the Word made flesh, then who is speaking for the Father in these verses?

I’m sure some theologian has addressed this problem in the past, but am hoping someone here can point me in the right direction.
D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Mark 1:

Ver. 11. The Greek printed copies, and some manuscripts read with St. Matthew (iii. 17.) in whom, en o, thus St. Chrysostom, Euthymius, and Theophylactus. Some few, however, have en soi, in thee, with the Syriac and Latin text. (Pastorini) — All the Fathers cite these verses for a proof of the Trinity: the testimony of the Father speaking, of the Son receiving the testimony, of the Holy Ghost descending in the shape of a dove. (Pastorini in Matt. iii. 17)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top