Who started the Protestant Revolt In Europe? And why isn't this obvious?

[yellowbird]

This was a question on a recent exam in my college level American History Class. It was multiple choice and I picked, what I thought was the obvious answer: Martin Luther. My teacher marked it wrong & said the correct answer was John Calvin.

What say you?

 

[Lief_Erikson]

It’s not a good question, in my opinion, because all these people are responsible. Martin Luther is the most responsible, in my opinion, so I marked him.

 

[yellowbird]

It’s not a good question, in my opinion, because all these people are responsible. Martin Luther is the most responsible, in my opinion, so I marked him.

It’s the word “starting” that tips it to Luther for me. Didn’t John Calvin and his followers come after him?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I’d ask your teacher to supply you with the written documentation to support his/her claim. Most historians (and this includes the historians who worked on the Catholic Encyclopedia) give Luther as the ‘starter’.

 

[yellowbird]

Could it be that he is a Calvinist? Do they give more credit to John Calvin & sort of ignore Luther? He spent a great deal of time talking about predestination.

Otherwise I just can’t figure out where he gets it from. I asked him after class and he said Luther was mainly just Germany… he was looking for Europe. (Isn’t Germany part of Europe?) He said it was John Calvin who started the “Revolt.”

I didn’t want to argue with him… he’s the teacher. But I always thought everyone came after Luther.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Could be. . .but the point is, if he is teaching, he needs to back up what he teaches. He might believe Calvin ‘started’ things, but he also needs to show where his textbook or source clearly spells out, “Calvin started the Protestant Revolution because… . .” and then say why AND give footnotes to support. Because I guarantee you can go into your college library and look up the Reformation and find 2-3 (at least) sources which will say that it was Luther, and give the reasons as to why HE started it.

And then your teacher will have to explain why his ‘one’ source is ‘better’ than those 2-3 other sources.

If, of course, he does have a source and this is not just his own ‘interpretation’.

 

[jblake]

yellowbird;:

It was multiple choice and I picked, what I thought was the obvious answer: Martin Luther. My teacher marked it wrong & said the correct answer was John Calvin.

Depending upon how “started the Protestant Revolt” is defined, the right answer is any of the following:

• Jan Hus
• Girolamo Savonarola
• Pope Leo X
• Charles V
• Martin Luther

xan

jonathon

 

[Thing]

The petty German princes who did not wish to be part of the Holy Roman Empire found in Luther a new species of bird, a protester of the Catholic Church. They adapted Luther and used him as something they could unite under since they could not live with each other normally. They did not care about Luther or protestantism, they were largely areligous and just used this new anti-religion as a weapon.
Luther would have faded away, probably, if he had not been used.

 

[Tsuwano]

Luther may have been the brightest match to light the fire of the Protestant movement in Europe, but he certainly wasn’t the only one or even the first. One should also mention that there can’t be a fire unless there is fuel to burn, and the years of abuse in the Church, as well as intolerance of those who raised legitimate questions about Church policy and theology, served that purpose very well.

 

[Contarini]

It’s a poorly worded question. I do understand his logic–Calvin (and some other Reformed theologians such as Bullinger) had a much more international reach than Luther, and Geneva became a model not only for theological reform but for revolutionary political movements (the latter came mostly after Calvin’s death–Calvin was not a revolutionary–but the revolutionaries looked back to him for inspiration). That doesn’t justify the wording he chose, though.

Remember that he is an American historian, and Calvinism had a huge impact on American history. It’s natural for an Americanist to think of Calvin as the truly important figure. You have every reason to challenge this particular question, but if he’s not willing to listen you may just have to put up with it. I don’t think it’s important enough to complain to the dean or anything like that, but I’m speaking as a professor myself!

Edwin

 

[yellowbird]

You have every reason to challenge this particular question, but if he’s not willing to listen you may just have to put up with it. I don’t think it’s important enough to complain to the dean or anything like that, but I’m speaking as a professor myself!

Edwin

I agree that the test question isn’t so imporant - I still got an A on the exam. I just wanted to understand why John Calvin was the correct answer. (I still maintain that it isn’t!)

His exams are often poorly written IMO. There are often two correct answers and I find myself trying to decide which is more correct. Why do teachers do that?

 

[Contarini]

I agree that the test question isn’t so imporant - I still got an A on the exam. I just wanted to understand why John Calvin was the correct answer. (I still maintain that it isn’t!)

And as a Reformation scholar, I totally agree with you! (I wouldn’t word the question this way anyway, but of the choices Luther is certainly the best–it’s false to say that his influence was only in Germany, although internationally the Reformed–not just Calvin but other figures as well such as Bullinger–very quickly eclipsed the Lutherans.)

As a teacher, I try not to do this sort of thing–I try to word questions carefully, and if students can give me a sound rationale for picking the “wrong” answer, I sometimes reconsider (obviously in that case I have to give the point to everyone who picked that particular answer, so I try to avoid this by wording questions carefully in the first place!).

Edwin

Edwin

 

[puzzleannie]

neither Calvin nor Luther can be said to be the first Protestant, as each were influenced by teachers and writers who came before them, some who had been condemned and punished as heretics. A history exam however should rely on dates, not debatable wording, unless the way the question was posed had been a topic of your lectures and reading.
Luther (1483-1546) dated his “conversion” to 1510 and posted his famous theses in 1517. Calvin (1509-1564) dates his “conversion” to 1529 and participated in or presided over the defection of Geneva from the Church 1534-1537. the two men never met. I would ask the prof for an explanation. It may be he considers that because Calvin was acting for an entire local church, with far-reaching consequences, and Luther, as an academic, was acting in protest to local church authorities over which he had no direct control, that Calvin could be more properly said to have personally lead a revolt. However I agree the question is worded wrongly if that is his intent.

 

[mercygate]

This was a question on a recent exam in my college level American History Class. It was multiple choice and I picked, what I thought was the obvious answer: Martin Luther. My teacher marked it wrong & said the correct answer was John Calvin.

What say you?

Badly framed question. Wrong answer. I don’t have a lot of confidence in education degrees, but when I was in a graduate program in counseling at Columbia, I took a class in test construction. The take-home point (and it has served me well for 25 years) is that you have to ask the right question in order to get a coherent answer. This isn’t the right question.

 

[Cat]

I agree with what others have said so far. I think that most scholars would consider Luther the starter.

Perhaps your teacher does not consider Lutheranism truly “Protestant.” Martin Luther held onto many of the beliefs of the Catholic Church, especially the belief that the Eucharist is Truly Christ (once it is consumed = consubstantiation). Theoretically, the religion of Martin Luther could be called “Catholic Lite.”

But Calvin more or less totally disgarded Catholicism. He denied utterly the True Presence of Jesus in Holy Communion, as well as many other Catholic doctrines, and many of the doctrines he watered down (e.g., baptism–no pun intended!).

Also, Calvin was the FIRST theologian to WRITE a systematic theology of the new religion, Institutes, so perhaps your teacher thinks that it was only when Protestantism was actually WRITTEN DOWN that it actually became a real religion instead of just a revolt of one disgruntled man . Perhaps your teacher believes that if Calvin hadn’t written Institutes, the whole Protestant revolt would have died out within a few generations. Hmmm.

My daughter graduated from Calvin College, BTW! You might want to contact them for (name removed by moderator)ut–I think that some of their faculty would be interested in writing you back. I wrote to their Dutch Department for a translation of a phrase in one of my novels, and two professors wrote me back.

 

[JonNC]

I agree with what others have said so far. I think that most scholars would consider Luther the starter.

Perhaps your teacher does not consider Lutheranism truly “Protestant.” Martin Luther held onto many of the beliefs of the Catholic Church, especially the belief that the Eucharist is Truly Christ **(once it is consumed = consubstantiation). **Theoretically, the religion of Martin Luther could be called “Catholic Lite.”

But Calvin more or less totally disgarded Catholicism. He denied utterly the True Presence of Jesus in Holy Communion, as well as many other Catholic doctrines, and many of the doctrines he watered down (e.g., baptism–no pun intended!).

Also, Calvin was the FIRST theologian to WRITE a systematic theology of the new religion, Institutes, so perhaps your teacher thinks that it was only when Protestantism was actually WRITTEN DOWN that it actually became a real religion instead of just a revolt of one disgruntled man . Perhaps your teacher believes that if Calvin hadn’t written Institutes, the whole Protestant revolt would have died out within a few generations. Hmmm.

My daughter graduated from Calvin College, BTW! You might want to contact them for (name removed by moderator)ut–I think that some of their faculty would be interested in writing you back. I wrote to their Dutch Department for a translation of a phrase in one of my novels, and two professors wrote me back.

Cat,
I agree with everything you say here. It is a good observation that he might not view lutherans as fully “protestant”.
Just a correction of what I bolded. Lutherans have never used the term consubstantiation. And receptionism (“once it is consumed”) is not good Lutheran doctrine, either. Christ said, “This is my body”, not “this will be my body”.

Jon

 

[HeriHodieSemper]

Perfect opportunity to evangelize.

If you can spare some extra cash, buy a copy of William H. Carroll’s The Cleaving of Christendom (vol. 4 of A History of Christendom)

Vol 4 is 800 pages. My paperback copy is heavy and the words are itty bitty. Lots of history packed in these pages.

Wrap the book up in some pretty paper and put a big red bow on it. Graciously give the book to your teacher/professor on the last day of class after you have filled out evaluations.

Don’t forget to leave a Pope BXVI bookmark on page one which happens to be titled “Martin Luther’s Revolt 1517-1521”

You could opt to leave a personal note on the back of the bookmark with your phone number so the teacher knows that this is important to you and you are willing to discuss this in detail.

-Peace

 

[yellowbird]

Not a bad idea H.H.Semper!

 

[Contarini]

Perfect opportunity to evangelize.

If you can spare some extra cash, buy a copy of William H. Carroll’s The Cleaving of Christendom (vol. 4 of A History of Christendom)

Vol 4 is 800 pages. My paperback copy is heavy and the words are itty bitty. Lots of history packed in these pages.

Wrap the book up in some pretty paper and put a big red bow on it. Graciously give the book to your teacher/professor on the last day of class after you have filled out evaluations.

Don’t forget to leave a Pope BXVI bookmark on page one which happens to be titled “Martin Luther’s Revolt 1517-1521”

You could opt to leave a personal note on the back of the bookmark with your phone number so the teacher knows that this is important to you and you are willing to discuss this in detail.

-Peace

A non-Catholic professor is likely to be more impressed by a work of history that is known and recognized outside conservative Catholic circles. There are many such works, respected by Protestants, Catholics, and secularists alike.

Edwin

 

[churchcamefirst]

Could it be that he is a Calvinist? Do they give more credit to John Calvin & sort of ignore Luther? He spent a great deal of time talking about predestination.

Otherwise I just can’t figure out where he gets it from. I asked him after class and he said Luther was mainly just Germany… he was looking for Europe. (Isn’t Germany part of Europe?) He said it was John Calvin who started the “Revolt.”

I didn’t want to argue with him… he’s the teacher. But I always thought everyone came after Luther.

****Although Luther and Calvin were well known, they never met or spoke a word to each other.
Luther was born in 1483.
Calvin was born in 1509, 25 years AFTER Luther.
There was a great difference in age. When Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the church doors, Calvin was only eight years old.
For Calvin, Luther was the first, the pioneer of the Reformation. He defended Luther.

I hope this helps you. You must tell your teacher this. He is wrong.****