Who was almost sacrificed by Abraham, Isaac or Ishmael?

[3rm]

We(Christians) say that it was Isaac but muslims say that it was Ishmael because he was Abraham’s first son. Even in pre-Islamic Arabia some arabs like Zayd Ibn Amr preached monotheism and believed that Ishmael was the one that was sacrificed not Isaac. I also read that early jews had positive feelings toward Ishmael but that appareantly changed later, so the story might have changed alongside it.

 

[Estevao]

It was Issac. I don’t know why some Muslims insist that it was Ishmael, it doesn’t specify who it was in the Koran, and Genesis says it was Issac.

 

[jakasaki]

We(Christians) say that it was Isaac but muslims say that it was Ishmael because he was Abraham’s first son. Even in pre-Islamic Arabia some arabs like Zayd Ibn Amr preached monotheism and believed that Ishmael was the one that was sacrificed not Isaac. I also read that early jews had positive feelings toward Ishmael but that appareantly changed later, so the story might have changed alongside it.

If you read the Quran it DOES NOT state which son was the sacrifice.

It is another claim Muslims make

The Bible is clear - it was Isaac

Although Ishmael was Abrahams first son, he was conceived through a slave woman, Hagar and this union of generating a child was NOT of God’s command.

And this Zayd person you mention, it is written that he and his family were into monotheism, but converted to Islam at a very young age.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

We(Christians) say that it was Isaac but muslims say that it was Ishmael because he was Abraham’s first son. Even in pre-Islamic Arabia some arabs like Zayd Ibn Amr preached monotheism and believed that Ishmael was the one that was sacrificed not Isaac. I also read that early jews had positive feelings toward Ishmael but that appareantly changed later, so the story might have changed alongside it.

Hmmm that is very interesting. I know there is a theory that Ishmael may have molested Isaac and that is why Sarah had them sent away, but I never heard of Ishmael being the son who Abraham was going to sacrifice. Ishmael was the first-born son, but Hagar was not a Jew, she was an Egyptian, so Isaac would necessarily be the one to carry the bloodline for the generations of Jews.

Where do you get your info about Jews having positive feelings about Ishmael that later changed?

 

[jakasaki]

There is an interesting passage in the Maryam chapter 19 of the Quran:

49 When he had turned away from them and from those whom they worshipped besides Allah, We bestowed on him Isaac and Jacob, and each one of them We made a prophet.

There is no Ishmael in there, although you will find Ishmael mentioned in the Quran and the passages refer to Ishmael helping Abraham build the Kaaba.

 

[tabycat]

Hmmm that is very interesting. I know there is a theory that Ishmael may have molested Isaac and that is why Sarah had them sent away, but I never heard of Ishmael being the son who Abraham was going to sacrifice. Ishmael was the first-born son, but Hagar was not a Jew, she was an Egyptian, so Isaac would necessarily be the one to carry the bloodline for the generations of Jews.

Where do you get your info about Jews having positive feelings about Ishmael that later changed?

Sarah was not a Jew either. A Jew was a member of the tribe of Judah.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Sarah was not a Jew either. A Jew was a member of the tribe of Judah.

Well you know what I mean. Abraham was the father of all the Jewish people. Jews aren’t all from Judah now are they?

 

[Elizium23]

And this Zayd person you mention, it is written that he and his family were into monotheism, but converted to Islam at a very young age.

I am confused. I was under the impression that Islam is monotheistic. What did Zayd convert from then?

 

[GEddie]

Well you know what I mean. Abraham was the father of all the Jewish people. Jews aren’t all from Judah now are they?

The “Jews” are the survivors of the old Kingdom of Judah, (Judah and Benjamin) which scattered into Babylon in 586BC.

The term has no meaning earlier in history than that.

Sarah and Isaac were Hebrews, but not Jews.

ICXC NIKA

 

[CHRISTINE77]

The “Jews” are the survivors of the old Kingdom of Judah, (Judah and Benjamin) which scattered into Babylon in 586BC.

The term has no meaning earlier in history than that.

Sarah and Isaac were Hebrews, but not Jews.

ICXC NIKA

"The original name for the people we now call Jews was Hebrews. The word “Hebrew” (in Hebrew, “Ivri”) is first used in the Torah to describe Abraham (Gen. 14:13). The word is apparently derived from the name Eber, one of Abraham’s ancestors. Another tradition teaches that the word comes from the word “eyver,” which means “the other side,” referring to the fact that Abraham came from the other side of the Euphrates, or referring to the fact Abraham was separated from the other nations morally and spiritually. "

It is common to call them Jews, maybe not correct, but in any case this is sort of a little quibbling point. The point is that Abraham was the father of all the people who are known as “JEWISH” today - not “HEBREWS”.

And the topic is why Ishmael was so disliked by the the writers of the Old Testament?

 

[KP3243]

It was Isaac. God sent Ismail and Hagar away. The birth of Ismail represents lack of faith in God or trying to play God and the consequences of trying to play God. Abraham and Sarah didn’t trust God at His word and tried to figure how they would have descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky, they came up with a plan to use Hagar to birth their children but that wasn’t what God told them was going to happen. Isaac is also an Old Testament type for Jesus. Abraham would have been over a 100 and Isaac would have been a teenager hence why the Bible notes that Isaac carries the wood not Abraham, Abraham was probably too old. Isaac was a willing victim and trusts he father with his life he could have over taken Abraham, and in 5000 years God is going to send His only beloved son up that same mountain carrying wood and being a willing victim for the sins of the world. Had God not sent Ismail away, I am sure Abraham would have called him instead of Isaac because Isaac is was the beloved son.

 

[Nelka]

Isaac.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Well you know what I mean. Abraham was the father of all the Jewish people. Jews aren’t all from Judah now are they?

Actually Abraham was a gentile. He became the father of the Hebrews the result of his fathering Isaac and the Muslims the result of fathering Ishmael.

 

[KP3243]

The “Jews” are the survivors of the old Kingdom of Judah, (Judah and Benjamin) which scattered into Babylon in 586BC.

The term has no meaning earlier in history than that.

Sarah and Isaac were Hebrews, but not Jews.

ICXC NIKA

Wouldn’t Abraham and his family have been Semites having come from Noah’s son Shem?

 

[LegoGE1947]

Wouldn’t Abraham and his family have been Semites having come from Noah’s son Shem?

It would seem so.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

It was Isaac. God sent Ismail and Hagar away. The birth of Ismail represents lack of faith in God or trying to play God and the consequences of trying to play God. Abraham and Sarah didn’t trust God at His word and tried to figure how they would have descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky, they came up with a plan to use Hagar to birth their children but that wasn’t what God told them was going to happen. Isaac is also an Old Testament type for Jesus. Abraham would have been over a 100 and Isaac would have been a teenager hence why the Bible notes that Isaac carries the wood not Abraham, Abraham was probably too old. Isaac was a willing victim and trusts he father with his life he could have over taken Abraham, and in 5000 years God is going to send His only beloved son up that same mountain carrying wood and being a willing victim for the sins of the world. Had God not sent Ismail away, I am sure Abraham would have called him instead of Isaac because Isaac is was the beloved son.

Good answer and very interesting points. But Sarah told Abraham to get rid of Ishmael and Hagar. There must have been a reason she was so mad at Ishmael. What do you think?

 

[GEddie]

Good answer and very interesting points. But Sarah told Abraham to get rid of Ishmael and Hagar. There must have been a reason she was so mad at Ishmael. What do you think?

Simple.

She was tacked off at Hagar because she had been intimate with her man. The fact that this was Sarah’s doing only made it worse.

She also did not want Ishmael, being older, to have first place in Daddy’s affection over her own kid.

No references to childhood molestation are necessary.

ICXC NIKA

 

[KP3243]

Good answer and very interesting points. But Sarah told Abraham to get rid of Ishmael and Hagar. There must have been a reason she was so mad at Ishmael. What do you think?

If you read Genesis she was worried about Isaac’s inheritance and what God promised to Abraham and his descendants and now that she had Isaac she wanted to make sure that it was Isaac that received the inheritance which God told Abraham he would be the father of great nations. There is a bit of an age difference between the two sons I suspect she knew she was older and might not be around to defend a young son against a man. The Bible also says she beat Hagar after she had Ismail so I assume she was jealous and probably self loathing for not listening to God. God in His mercy sends Hagar and Ismail away it seems cruel but God promises that Ismail will be taken care of. There is a split between Christian and Jewish views of Ismail mainly Christians don’t see Ismail as wicked just unfortunate situation that was man made.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

If you read Genesis she was worried about Isaac’s inheritance and what God promised to Abraham and his descendants and now that she had Isaac she wanted to make sure that it was Isaac that received the inheritance which God told Abraham he would be the father of great nations. There is a bit of an age difference between the two sons I suspect she knew she was older and might not be around to defend a young son against a man. The Bible also says she beat Hagar after she had Ismail so I assume she was jealous and probably self loathing for not listening to God. God in His mercy sends Hagar and Ismail away it seems cruel but God promises that Ismail will be taken care of. There is a split between Christian and Jewish views of Ismail mainly Christians don’t see Ismail as wicked just unfortunate situation that was man made.

That story really shows how the hatred between the Jews and the Muslims began. Because Ismael’s descendents were and are the enemies of the Jews and vice versa.

 

[jakasaki]

I am confused. I was under the impression that Islam is monotheistic. What did Zayd convert from then?

There were a group of Jahiliya Arabians called Hanifs back then who were not Jews or Christians, but believed in one God, the God of Abraham.