Who was almost sacrificed by Abraham, Isaac or Ishmael?

[CHRISTINE77]

Simple.

She was tacked off at Hagar because she had been intimate with her man. The fact that this was Sarah’s doing only made it worse.

She also did not want Ishmael, being older, to have first place in Daddy’s affection over her own kid.

No references to childhood molestation are necessary.

ICXC NIKA

I have seen some Jewish sites where there is mention of child molestation:

jbq.jewishbible.org/assets/Uploads/361/361_sarahsaw.pdf

I think this story means different things to Christians and Jews. For Christians, Isaac prefigures Christ. For Jews, it’s about the split between Ishmael’s descendents and Isaac’s descendents.

 

[Irishgal49]

We(Christians) say that it was Isaac but muslims say that it was Ishmael because he was Abraham’s first son. Even in pre-Islamic Arabia some arabs like Zayd Ibn Amr preached monotheism and believed that Ishmael was the one that was sacrificed not Isaac. I also read that early jews had positive feelings toward Ishmael but that appareantly changed later, so the story might have changed alongside it.

Depends on who you ask. My good friend, who is Muslim says Ishmael and Christians/Jews say Isaac.

 

[drac16]

I don’t know who it was, but I believe it was Ishmael [peace be upon him]. As others have said, it’s true that the Qur’an does not specifically mention which son it was, the relevant passage, which is surah 37:99-113 of the Qur’an, mentions Isaac only after the sacrifice narrative, which, to me, seems to be insinuating that it was Ishmael who was the son [of Abraham] that was called to be sacrificed [peace be upon all three of those men].

For me, it doesn’t matter who it was. All of them were men with God-consciousness [or ‘taqwa’], the Qur’an says.

 

[MartinJordan]

Why cant the Qur’an state Ishmael? Why is it so difficult to include the fact straightforwardly?

MJ

 

[steido01]

There were a group of Jahiliya Arabians called Hanifs back then who were not Jews or Christians, but believed in one God, the God of Abraham.

Do you have further info on this? I’ve never seen ‘Jahiliyya’ used to denote a specific people; I’ve only seen it used as a descriptor for those who are in a state of ‘ignorance’ of Islam.

 

[Richard_Feynman]

It was Isaac.
After these things, God tempted Abraham, and said to him: Abraham, Abraham. And he answered: Here I am. He said to him: Take thy only begotten son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and go into the land of vision: and there thou shalt offer him for a holocaust upon one of the mountains which I will show thee. (Genesis 22:1, 2 DRA)

It was in the reading last night at the Easter Vigil.

Richard Feynman

 

[MartinJordan]

It was Isaac.
After these things, God tempted Abraham, and said to him: Abraham, Abraham. And he answered: Here I am. He said to him: Take thy only begotten son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and go into the land of vision: and there thou shalt offer him for a holocaust upon one of the mountains which I will show thee. (Genesis 22:1, 2 DRA)

It was in the reading last night at the Easter Vigil.

Richard Feynman

Awesome! Speak the Truth always.

MJ

 

[drac16]

Why cant the Qur’an state Ishmael? Why is it so difficult to include the fact straightforwardly?

MJ

There are all sorts of things we can wonder about as to “why this way?” or “why that way?”, but Allah knows best why the text is presented the way it is. He doesn’t have to mention every detail of the narrative for it to be true.

 

[MartinJordan]

There are all sorts of things we can wonder about as to “why this way?” or “why that way?”, but Allah knows best why the text is presented the way it is. He doesn’t have to mention every detail of the narrative for it to be true.

Historically it doesn’t work that way. God gave man reasons to follow Him. God knowing best isn’t Theology. Only man deceives himself by not following God’s precepts.

MJ

 

[drac16]

Historically it doesn’t work that way. God gave man reasons to follow Him. God knowing best isn’t Theology. Only man deceives himself by not following God’s precepts.

MJ

Allah azza wa jal is ‘Al-Alim’-- the ‘All Knowing’. It’s part of our creed, so it is part of our theology. Look, MJ, my point is that there are some things that we don’t know. I am not saying we should never use the natural reasoning God gave us-- far from it. Indeed, one of the most prominent and most influential Islamic scholars in history, Imam Abu Hanifa [may Allah have mercy on him], advocated this; it’s called ‘qiyaas’. I could speculate why the name of Ishmael [peace be upon him] is not mentioned in the Qur’anic narrative of Abraham’s sacrifice, but it would be just that; speculation.

It’s a non-issue to us muslims.

Not only that, but even in the Christian faith, there are things you don’t know, like who wrote the book of Hebrews and several books in the Old Testament, but that’s not going to stop you from following that path, is it?

 

[MartinJordan]

Allah azza wa jal is ‘Al-Alim’-- the ‘All Knowing’. It’s part of our creed, so it is part of our theology. Look, MJ, my point is that there are some things that we don’t know. I am not saying we should never use the natural reasoning God gave us-- far from it. Indeed, one of the most prominent and most influential Islamic scholars in history, Imam Abu Hanifa [may Allah have mercy on him], advocated this; it’s called ‘qiyaas’. I could speculate why the name of Ishmael [peace be upon him] is not mentioned in the Qur’anic narrative of Abraham’s sacrifice, but it would be just that; speculation.

It’s a non-issue to us muslims.

Not only that, but even in the Christian faith, there are things you don’t know, like who wrote the book of Hebrews and several books in the Old Testament, but that’s not going to stop you from following that path, is it?

Of course God is All Knowing and I know Muslims (like you) believe it in all their heart.

But when it is said God knows best what does it really mean? Are you saying God,can simply erase historical scripture and experiences of man? God knows best what exactly?

See Drac now you yourself are using our Scripture and claiming something. Why? Sadly atheists are even doing it.

Plus without context of all the experiences of the men and women of Faith in the Risen Christ with all the other NT books as one complete experience of the early Church for the Church by the Church is a pick and choose approach, even used by break away churches.

MJ

 

[drac16]

Of course God is All Knowing and I know Muslims (like you) believe it in all their heart.

But when it is said God knows best what does it really mean? Are you saying God,can simply erase historical scripture and experiences of man? God knows best what exactly?

See Drac now you yourself are using our Scripture and claiming something. Why? Sadly atheists are even doing it.

Plus without context of all the experiences of the men and women of Faith in the Risen Christ with all the other NT books as one complete experience of the early Church for the Church by the Church is a pick and choose approach, even used by break away churches.

MJ

I was saying ‘Allah knows best’ in regards to why the name ‘Ishmael’ is not mentioned in surah 37:101-107. It’s a common saying amongst muslims, when we don’t know something, to say ‘Allahu alim’, which means “God knows best”. It’s used in the context of important or deep stuff, though. For example, if you ask a muslim when Judgment Day will come, I can almost guarantee that that’s the response you’ll get (which is “Allah/God knows best”).

It’s more than just saying “I don’t know”-- it’s an acknowledgement that everything happens for a reason and that God’s wisdom is too great for our human minds to comprehend. On my best day, I can’t comprehend 0.0001% of everything that’s happening.

I mentioned the anonymous writer of the book of Hebrews in order to, if you will, speak Christian language. I was trying to illustrate how someone could be ignorant of a minor thing, but that that ignorance doesn’t negate the whole. Nobody knows who wrote Hebrews, but that doesn’t stop Christianity from growing and it doesn’t stop people from reading Hebrews.