Who was really to blame for the east-west schism and can it be reversed?

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Jon_Mallory said:
Strike a deal? Both our hierarchs are men of faith, not opportunistic businessmen looking to make an alliance that suits our common interests.
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“Both” our hierarchs? It certainly looks like one hierarch on the Rome side. I am not sure there is only one hierarch on the EO side. Are the different branches of Eastern Orthodoxy moving towards each other, or moving apart, in recent years? Is there any branch of EO that has so many members they might have more say over actual decisions than others?
What if one or more smaller branches regard as acceptable a position towards reunion, but the others do not? Is it all or none at all, for EO?
 
commenter said:
“Both” our hierarchs? It certainly looks like one hierarch on the Rome side. I am not sure there is only one hierarch on the EO side. Are the different branches of Eastern Orthodoxy moving towards each other, or moving apart, in recent years? Is there any branch of EO that has so many members they might have more say over actual decisions than others?
What if one or more smaller branches regard as acceptable a position towards reunion, but the others do not? Is it all or none at all, for EO?
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Code: 
 Your question is best suited for a priest to answer. As someone who has been in the Orthodox Church for less than a year, I am not qualified to answer your question. In order to answer it, I would have to possess a working knowledge of the canons that govern the relationships between our Bishops. Lord willing, communion will be restored between Jerusalem and Antioch. Our political squabbles are an embarrassment. 
 
 Regarding reunion with Rome, if the theological and liturgical issues are resolved, then I think more of our hierarchs will be happy to put our past differences aside. First, Rome has to acknowledge there are more differences between it and the Orthodox Church than just the issue of the Papacy. Otherwise, we'll just be talking past each other.
 
My personal opinion is that both the East and the West are to blame for the schism. Much I think due to cultural differences between the East and the West, language difference and lack of understandings of the different Traditions between the West and East and of course how each understands the doctrines and dogma’s of the other.
 
If you have kids are they being raised Catholic or Orthodox? My wife (born and raised Orthodox) and I thought it very important to study both churches and come to unity. In our case she came into communion with the Church when I reverted. She is a Greek Catholic and I am in the Latin Church. Our kids are Catholic. Being able to worship together is not a small thing. Of course I have one Jewish and one Catholic parent so maybe I am more sensitive to this due to my background.
 
well why did you tell me you were going to. why lie about that?
 
How do the Russian Orthodox get by, do they allow gay couples to adopt?
 
So if they were to choose between a dysfunctional Russian Orthodox family and a well functioning Roman Catholic family, would Russian charities still go with the ROC family? I think a good Christian would put the welfare of the child above the religious affiliation of the prospective parents. Then again, this is the same country that arrested a kid for playing pokemon go in a Church and banned swearing in the arts.
 
bizarre. i didn’t see anything funny about the state of souls and eternity. i guess i just wouldn’t have thought someone would be so flippant about the subject.

But hey, I bet it was really funny when you were typing it. Thanks for the participation!
 
benjamindt said:
bizarre. i didn’t see anything funny about the state of souls and eternity. i guess i just wouldn’t have thought someone would be so flippant about the subject.

But hey, I bet it was really funny when you were typing it. Thanks for the participation!
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You do realize that the Catholic Church teaches that the Orthodox Churches possess the full means of salvation, right?
 
benjamindt said:
bizarre. i didn’t see anything funny about the state of souls and eternity. i guess i just wouldn’t have thought someone would be so flippant about the subject.

But hey, I bet it was really funny when you were typing it. Thanks for the participation!
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Some people just don’t get irony :rolleyes:
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
You do realize that the Catholic Church teaches that the Orthodox Churches possess the full means of salvation, right?
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It is possible, according to Catholic doctrine, to affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative in the churches and ecclesial Communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church, on account of the elements of sanctification and truth that are present in them.[9] Nevertheless, the word “subsists” can only be attributed to the Catholic Church alone precisely because it refers to the mark of unity that we profess in the symbols of the faith (I believe… in the “one” Church); and this “one” Church subsists in the Catholic Church.[10]

[9] Cf. John Paul II, Encyclical Letter Ut unum sint, 11.3: AAS 87 [1995-II] 928.
[10] Cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium, 8.2

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
You do realize that the Catholic Church teaches that the Orthodox Churches possess the full means of salvation, right?
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then why would the Catholic Church bother with reunification. If there’s still the full means of salvation then why does anyone care if they’re in communion with each other? Communion with the Church must mean absolutely nothing if it’s not required.
 
benjamindt said:
then why would the Catholic Church bother with reunification. If there’s still the full means of salvation then why does anyone care if they’re in communion with each other? Communion with the Church must mean absolutely nothing if it’s not required.
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Any person who has a bible, or who has heard the message of Christ, has the full means of salvation.
The RCC is concerned with reunification primarily because the New Testament calls for unity (but not at the cost of truth).
As a practical matter, the enemies of Christianity are far more powerful in this generation. A century ago secularists were more limited in scope. The Catholic Christians lived together, united, mainly in certain countries, while the Orthodox Christians lived together, united, in ****other ****countries. Catholics and Orthodox usually lived where they were the majority of the population.

Today, the secularists are organized worldwide. It is much more common for Christians overall to be in a minority in a given city or country. It is also more common for Catholics and Orthodox to live in the same city. Cooperation against the (now more powerful) secular forces is needed.
 
benjamindt said:
then why would the Catholic Church bother with reunification. If there’s still the full means of salvation then why does anyone care if they’re in communion with each other? Communion with the Church must mean absolutely nothing if it’s not required.
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Catholic Answers has:

When speaking of salvation, Jesus offered more details than just his words quoted above. For example, consider these three verses:
  • He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
  • nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3)
  • [H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)
Notice that in these three verses Jesus associated salvation with baptism, confession, and the Eucharist, respectively. Catholics recognize that these sacraments are administered through the Church. In fact, in the case of the latter two, a validly ordained priest is necessary for their administration, so the sacrament of ordination must also be associated with salvation. A primary role of the Catholic Church in conjunction with salvation is becoming quite clear.

catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means
 
Vico said:
Catholic Answers has:

When speaking of salvation, Jesus offered more details than just his words quoted above. For example, consider these three verses:
  • He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
  • nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3)
  • [H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)
Notice that in these three verses Jesus associated salvation with baptism, confession, and the Eucharist, respectively. Catholics recognize that these sacraments are administered through the Church. In fact, in the case of the latter two, a validly ordained priest is necessary for their administration, so the sacrament of ordination must also be associated with salvation. A primary role of the Catholic Church in conjunction with salvation is becoming quite clear.

catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

The second one about repenting seems to apply in this subject (and the fact that it hasn’t happened)

Christ also talked about what would happen if towns/people denied the apostles. Denying the authority of Christ given to Peter is not listed as an excusable exception from what I remember reading in the bible.
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interesting view. i’m not sure how pretending there is no division or no problem with the lack of communion will help guide you down the right path (unless the Orthodox are right and the Catholics are not)
 
benjamindt said:
interesting view. i’m not sure how pretending there is no division or no problem with the lack of communion will help guide you down the right path (unless the Orthodox are right and the Catholics are not)
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Why are you harassing the poster about how he deals with division in his own life? Do you have any insight into the details of his situation? How do you deal with it in your own?
 
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