Who was the Rock in Matthew 16:18?

[luckyfredsdad]

My friend, I have been in deep discussion with padrej. He has proven to me without a doubt that he IS a Bishop of the First Class. He is a theologian and is a teacher of theology in a seminary. Although he is not of my faith, I admire him and deeply respect him for not only his position as a Bishop, but also as a Man of God. So it is best, that when he says or tells you something, to heed his warning and advice. If you wish to make a fool of yourself, then please continue to do so.

many thanks for your kindness! The information is welcome as well as interesting.I wish the Bishop well!

**I do believe you, but I find it slightly amusing that I am relying on the the expertise of a man who believes his own bishop is, to quote Pius X,…" *Jesus Christ Himself!" * How-and -ever, "if you wish to make a fool of yourself??
**

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

A very good post, JLV, but they will ignore it.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

LOL!

OK, let’s see it again:

**Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon the son of John; you will be called Cephas” (which is translated Peter).

(John1,42)
**

 

[Javl]

many thanks for your kindness! The information is welcome as well as interesting.I wish the Bishop well!

**I do believe you, but I find it slightly amusing that I am relying on the the expertise of a man who believes his own bishop is, to quote Pius X,…" *Jesus Christ Himself!" *** How-and -ever, "if you wish to make a fool of yourself??

He is NOT my bishop. He is your bishop and you should heed him.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Lapey]

Nope. But if you are going to judge some sins mortal and others venial, I will question whether my missing Mass last Friday was as bad as someone supposedly in a leadership position molesting a child which I have never done. .

Several of us have nicely asked you to stop the hatred by using these hurtful issues as weapons. Yet you still insist on bringing this up in every discussion. You don’t really understand the whole Christian concept I see.

You will be judged by the way you judge. You will be forgiven in the manner in which you forgive.

 

[tweetymom]

Several of us have nicely asked you to stop the hatred by using these hurtful issues as weapons. Yet you still insist on bringing this up in every discussion. You don’t really understand the whole Christian concept I see.

You will be judged by the way you judge. You will be forgiven in the manner in which you forgive.

As will we all.

 

[Lapey]

As will we all.

Amen sister!

 

[AwGusTeen]

Nope. But if you are going to judge some sins mortal and others venial, I will question whether my missing Mass last Friday was as bad as **someone supposedly in a leadership position molesting a child **which I have never done. No, God has not given just to me but to all sheep the authority to judge false teachers by their fruits. He SAID you will know them by their fruits. Pretty simple stuff. But I understand how the thought of false teachers in the Roman church can be a hard thing for some to accept. I would say 1truth which we are all searching for I trust on our lifelong journeys with Christ. I’m not sure any of us can grasp God’s Truth in its entirety. We are mere humans. And I am not so arrogant to presume I absolutely, positively KNOW it all. I have repeated how many times, but once again… It is called FAITH. May God bless you on your faith walk with Him. Peace.

I find it amazing how some people always fall back upon the intellectually vapid “pedophile priest” argument as a convenient means to attack the entire Catholic Church.

Let’s see if I have your position correct, Lib:

1. The Catholic Church has some sinners in it - even priests and teachers (pedophiles, alcoholics, adulterers, etc.)
2. Since you will know “them” by “their” fruits and some of their fruits are the result of being sinners
3. Then the Catholic Church has false teachers in it.

Wow - that’s an earth-shattering discovery there, Lib. Unfortunately, that’s true of ALL churches. However, you conveniently leave out the other kinds of fruits that you can know “them” by - like:

SCHOOLS
The Church is the largest operator of private schools in the U.S., with over 2.6 million students enrolled in its 6,900 elementary schools and some 1,200 high schools, costing roughly $10 billion a year. Most of the elementary schools are attached to local parishes, while high schools are often run by a Catholic religious order, such as the Jesuits or Christian Brothers. Although tuition has been rising sharply, schools still receive large subsidies from the Church.

HEALTH CARE
The nonprofit health-care system includes 637 hospitals, accounting for 17% of all U.S. hospital admissions. The Church also runs 122 home health-care agencies and nearly 700 other service providers, including assisted living, adult day care, and senior housing. The hospitals alone have annual expenses of $65 billion and account for 5% of U.S. health-care spending.

CHARITIES
Catholic Charities USA consists of 1,400 agencies that run soup kitchens, temporary shelters, childcare, and refugee resettlement. In 1999, Catholic Charities had collective revenues of $2.34 billion. Most of that comes from state and local governments and from program fees. The Church accounts for only about 12% of income.

Data: Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University; National Catholic Educational Assn.; Catholic Health Assn.; U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops; Catholic Charities USA

You see Lib, the Catholic Church is the Biggest Christian Church on the planet; consequently, it is the world’s largest charitable organization. What you see above is only a drop in the bucket when you look at it on a worldwide basis.

How 'bout those fruits there, Lib?

 

[Carlan]

Nope. But if you are going to judge some sins mortal and others venial, I will question whether my missing Mass last Friday was as bad as someone supposedly in a leadership position molesting a child which I have never done. No, God has not given just to me but to all sheep the authority to judge false teachers by their fruits. He SAID you will know them by their fruits. Pretty simple stuff. But I understand how the thought of false teachers in the Roman church can be a hard thing for some to accept. I would say 1truth which we are all searching for I trust on our lifelong journeys with Christ. I’m not sure any of us can grasp God’s Truth in its entirety. We are mere humans. And I am not so arrogant to presume I absolutely, positively KNOW it all. I have repeated how many times, but once again… It is called FAITH. May God bless you on your faith walk with Him. Peace.

God judges the heart when it comes to individuals. Only he knows the ins and outs, whether it is about worship or morality, when he is judging our sin. He permits us to judge behaviour as being right or wrong and to act and advise accordingly.

The Church is the Bride of Christ, he is the Bridegroom and as such we Catholics follow him through his Church. He has provided all the means by which we will reach heaven if we continue in our life with Him. (Sacred Tradition, Scripture the Magisterium) one cannot stand without the other along with all the gifts of sanctifying grace which we receive through the sacraments of his Apostolic Church.:thumbsup:God bless you and shine his Light on the whole Truth for us all to see clearly.Carlan

 

[Teneas]

I find it amazing how some people always fall back upon the intellectually vapid “pedophile priest” argument as a convenient means to attack the entire Catholic Church.

Let’s see if I have your position correct, Lib:

1. The Catholic Church has some sinners in it - even priests and teachers (pedophiles, alcoholics, adulterers, etc.)
2. Since you will know “them” by “their” fruits and some of their fruits are the result of being sinners
3. Then the Catholic Church has false teachers in it.

Wow - that’s an earth-shattering discovery there, Lib. Unfortunately, that’s true of ALL churches. However, you conveniently leave out the other kinds of fruits that you can know “them” by - like:

SCHOOLS
The Church is the largest operator of private schools in the U.S., with over 2.6 million students enrolled in its 6,900 elementary schools and some 1,200 high schools, costing roughly $10 billion a year. Most of the elementary schools are attached to local parishes, while high schools are often run by a Catholic religious order, such as the Jesuits or Christian Brothers. Although tuition has been rising sharply, schools still receive large subsidies from the Church.

HEALTH CARE
The nonprofit health-care system includes 637 hospitals, accounting for 17% of all U.S. hospital admissions. The Church also runs 122 home health-care agencies and nearly 700 other service providers, including assisted living, adult day care, and senior housing. The hospitals alone have annual expenses of $65 billion and account for 5% of U.S. health-care spending.

CHARITIES
Catholic Charities USA consists of 1,400 agencies that run soup kitchens, temporary shelters, childcare, and refugee resettlement. In 1999, Catholic Charities had collective revenues of $2.34 billion. Most of that comes from state and local governments and from program fees. The Church accounts for only about 12% of income.

Data: Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University; National Catholic Educational Assn.; Catholic Health Assn.; U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops; Catholic Charities USA

You see Lib, the Catholic Church is the Biggest Christian Church on the planet; consequently, it is the world’s largest charitable organization. What you see above is only a drop in the bucket when you look at it on a worldwide basis.

How 'bout those fruits there, Lib?

 

[Michael_Wood]

I don’t really understand the question, as the very verse tells you it’s Peter.
It is also understood to mean Our Church as St. Peter was the first Pope.
I find it particularly prophetic that St. Peter’s in Roma is actually sitting atop Peter’s tomb so that the Church is Spiritually and literally physically ‘Built’ on top of Peter! WOW!

 

[Justin_Mee]

I don’t really understand the question, as the very verse tells you it’s Peter.
It is also understood to mean Our Church as St. Peter was the first Pope.
I find it particularly prophetic that St. Peter’s in Roma is actually sitting atop Peter’s tomb so that the Church is Spiritually and literally physically ‘Built’ on top of Peter! WOW!

Three weeks ago, I was in St. Peter’s Basilica and actually saw St. Peters resting place. The general public could not go down the steps to the actual tomb so I had to be content with holding my camera high for a picture. The steps are circular and narrow so it would be impossible for so many people to navigate up and down the stairs. It is an emotional experience to actually stand in front of the alter of St. Peter. The actual tomb is inscribed “Here is Peter” according to the staff. All Catholics should see it if possible. It will renew your faith and fill your heart with joy.

 

[Lib_Christian]

Let’s see if I have your position correct, Lib:

1. The Catholic Church has some sinners in it - even priests and teachers (pedophiles, alcoholics, adulterers, etc.)
2. Since you will know “them” by “their” fruits and some of their fruits are the result of being sinners
3. Then the Catholic Church has false teachers in it.

Wow - that’s an earth-shattering discovery there, Lib. Unfortunately, that’s true of ALL churches. However, you conveniently leave out the other kinds of fruits that you can know “them” by .

How 'bout those fruits there, Lib?

Yes you have my position correct and when have I said those other things were not good fruit? It is true all humans can err. That’s why I don’t practice blind faith.

 

[Teneas]

Yes you have my position correct and when have I said those other things were not good fruit? It is true all humans can err. That’s why I don’t practice blind faith.

Funny though, how all Christianity, no matter the actual denomination thinks that it actually opens your eyes, not make you blindly worship.

 

[Lib_Christian]

Funny though, how all Christianity, no matter the actual denomination thinks that it actually opens your eyes, not make you blindly worship.

Perhaps but then some allow you to open your eyes wider than others too.

 

[Lapey]

Perhaps but then some allow you to open your eyes wider than others too.

Finally something I can agree with as truth from you, the Catholic Church and those in communion with the Latin Rite can open your eyes wider than any!!!

Praise Jesus…we have a break through!

 

[Javl]

Finally something I can agree with as truth from you, the Catholic Church and those in communion with the Latin Rite can open your eyes wider than any!!!

Praise Jesus…we have a break through!

Very, very, true Lapey. I’ve been mixed up with some of the others and I can state that no matter how they try, your eyes ar not opened wide. I reverted, and boy! I don’t think any eyes can be opened any wider!

PAX DOMINI signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem

 

[AwGusTeen]

Yes you have my position correct and when have I said those other things were not good fruit? It is true all humans can err. That’s why I don’t practice blind faith.

Yes - but you specifically mentioned the “Roman” church as having false teachers based upon their “fruits” that you would know them by. Would you care to clarify that statement?

 

[Callin]

OK, here’s a challenge to my Protestant and Eastern Orthodox brethren, and to the other people who deny that Simon, the person became the Rock. In the following passages, taken from John Chapter 1, a bunch of people confess that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, starting with St. John the Baptist, and ending with Nathanael who is one of the 12 Apostles. Yet, ONLY Simon was renamed later as Cephas (Rock). Moreover, here when Simon meets Jesus, Jesus immediately greets him with this prophesy (verse 42): “You are Simon the son of John; you will be called Cephas” (which is translated Peter).

Why? Why rename Simon only, and not St. John the Baptist, as well as John, Andrew, Philip, and Nathanael the Apostles?? They also confessed that Jesus was the Messiah, yet Jesus didn’t tell them that they were going to be renamed as Cephas??

And how about the man possessed by the devil? The devil also confessed that Jesus was the Son of God, and yet Jesus didn’t tell him that he was going to build his Church on the devil, or on the devil’s confession?

How about the practicing homosexual Bishops in certain Christian denominations, who confess that Jesus is the Son of God, but teach that the practice of homosexuality and artificial birth control are not sinful? Is Jesus Christ’s glorious Church, against which the gates of hell will not prevail, also built on them?

usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john1.htm

I was really hoping to see more than 1 response to this post in the succeeding four pages.

 

[Teneas]

Perhaps but then some allow you to open your eyes wider than others too.

I agree, and thank the Lord that the Catholic Church is not one of those. If we stop questioning, doubting, wondering, we stop the very essence of what it means to be human. Have had countless priests tell me to never stop questioning. It is in those questions that one opens their eyes.

I have seen countless posts where the Catholic side has been very patient and understanding on these forums. While I know I am relatively new here, I do understand my faith, and what it means to converse with those of another faith.

There have also been those Catholic posters that were overly harsh in my opinion. You must understand that we are beat and bombarded constantly with what people “know we believe”, and not what we truly do.

If you are here to learn, keep an open mind and let’s talk. If you have no open mind at all…your time here is pointless. This is not directed at you alone, or at you at all in all honesty. It is directed at everyone.

Doesn’t it get old saying how wrong we are? I have seen very very few posts from Catholics that openly bash non-Catholics.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Peter