Who was the Rock in Matthew 16:18?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Prodigal_Son1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
That’s because these are real scholars and not Televangelists. If you stop by your local Lifeway Christian Bookstore, you’ll find these men in the reference books and not in the pulp spirituality aisles.
That is a rather crass assessment. I wonder how much you have read the works of these “real scholars”.
I think I reviewed your questions previously, but I’ll check them out again to see if there is anything of interest there.
Never mind; please don’t waste your time.
An argument which has been disproven. By the time the NT was written, the “little pebble” connotation no longer existed.
Who used “little pebble”, my Greek states a stone or small rock. I guess compared to the size of the petra, whether a small rock, stone or pebble would make little difference in the comparison. Disproven???
 
**If all we needed was Peter as Pope, why did Jesus give the Keys of Heaven to all the disciples, 2 chapters later in Matthew 18?

Did Peter realize he was the first Pope?

Why was Paul writing Epistles to the Romans if Peter was there as Pope?

After the laying on of hands for a bishop does this then happen to Priests?

Can a Priest do the laying on of hands or only the Bishop?

Someone asked about the Aramaic translation- just remember we don’t know which came first the Greek or Aramaic. If the Aramaic came first it is still possible that the person writing from the Aramaic into Greek understood the issue at hand and so used petros and petra appropriately.**
[Loading...](If all we needed was Peter as Pope, why did Jesus give the Keys of Heaven to all the disciples, 2 chapters later in Matthew 18?)

Javi -“Why do you all insist on distorting and skewing His words with what you think He said and meant?”

**It is not distorting the words simply following the Grammer of the Greek.

Some have said that the rock is the faith of Peter. The rock is the truth that Peter uttered.

Do Catholics believe that the other disciples were allowed to perform the loosing and binding after Jesus gave them the Keys of Heaven right then when Jesus said it or did Peter perform the maneuver of laying on of the hands first?**

ProdigalSon1-“This was in response to your insinuation the Church cannot be an authority because of fallible men, even though fallible men authored the New Testament, defined the canon of the New Testament and preserved the New Testament for 1500+ years so the Protestant have it as well as Catholics.”
AwGusTeen- “authoritative the canon of the New Testament as declared by the Catholic Church”

The 4 Books of the Gospel, really all we need to be Christians was always considered to be “approved” scripture even when first written. It never had to be decided on.

Randy Carson – “Sure, earthly leaders may make mistakes, but the Catholic Church has never taught doctrinal error and the pope has never formally declared doctrinal error ex cathedra”

Of course the Church has taught doctrinal errors otherwise there wouldn’t have been a split.

Yada- *“Protestants tell the Catholics that they are wrong in their practice of the Christian faith [when there is no unity in various non-catholic christian faith; how the worship services are conducted vary in dramatic ways, the core beliefs on Baptism, Communion, use of musical instruments or not, etc], mis-understand and mis-interpret the Scriptures [when the variety of biblical intepretations amoung the non-cathlics covers the entire spetrum of ideas], that we are wrong to follow the teachings of the Church and Pope [while they can follow the teachings of any Church - shop around and find the Chruch that conforms to their indvidual needs and bias - in fact each person is their own Pope being guided by the Holy Spirit - each understanding the Spirit in his own way.” *

Do Catholics believe that the Holy Spirit works for all Christians, just some or only Catholics?

**How the worship services are conducted is not important! **

**It is the truth - “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” that we all believe that is important **

So what if you believe you have to have the sermon first then the Eucharist, or kneel or not, or have instruments or not, have a choir or not, shake hands and give peace before the service or during the service, It just doesn’t matter! If it did don’t you think it would have been outlined for us in the scripture?

ProdigalSon1-*S"t. Ignatius wrote the following: Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. "*I

I am sure that St Ignacius wrote that with a small k - katholike ekklesia= universal church. Excommunicating those that see and try to correct horrible man-made doctrines that have entered the church sort of defeats the idea of a universal church.

Robert in SD said – “*Why is it that Christ cannot build His Church where he chooses… on Peter (Cephas) the Rock. Are you saying that despite what Jesus clearly tells Peter (i.e. you are rock, and on this rock I will build my church) it cannot be done? It seems you are approaching this passage with your own presumption that it cannot mean what the language clearly shows… that Peter is the rock on which Jesus will build His Church; not Peter’s faith; not a personal confession of faith, but Simon, who Jesus re-named Cephas (Rock)”. *

**Jesus can! **

**I will not be a stumbling block to a fellow Christian that needs to believe that the Papacy was set up by Jesus, there is just not enough proof for me that Jesus did not give the Keys to all the disciples.

It is simply too obvious that the early church was ruled by committee and no one person had all the power to decide for example if Gentile Christians had to be circumcized to worship with the Jewish Christians.***
 
And obviously, if Scott Hahn is endorsing Carson’s work, it is because his scholarship is enlightening for those non-Catholics who continue clinging to a discredited interpretation of Matthew 16:18.
Discredited by who? Would you dare cite other well known theological scholars who would beg to differ? Of course not. So why should I accept your bias? It would be one thing if the Scripture did not clarify itself, but it does on this position you are biased toward and the Scriptural bias is contrary to your bias for the Scripture says: 1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Matthew knew exactly what he was writing and Luke’s account doesn’t bother to mention it.

Perhaps you might see the relationship of Matthew 16 to Matthew 7:21-29?
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Every one therefore that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them, shall be likened unto a wise man, who built his house upon the rock: 25 and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and if fell not: for it was founded upon the rock. 26 And every one that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand: 27 and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and smote upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall thereof. 28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished these words, the multitudes were astonished at his teaching: 29 for he taught them as [one] having authority, and not as their scribes.
I’m sorry if the website you visited does not sell the books I referenced, but this does not change the fact that some really bright men admitted that Peter, not Peter’s confession, is the rock upon which Jesus built the Church.
The books are available, they just do not sell well because there are better works to chose from.
Here are a few more for now:
CUT

John Broadus (Baptist)
“As Peter means rock, the natural interpretation is that ‘upon this rock’ means upon thee. . . . It is an even more far-fetched and harsh play upon words if we understand the rock to be Christ and a very feeble and almost unmeaning play upon words if the rock is Peter’s confession”
CUT
Craig L. Blomberg (Baptist)
Acknowledging Jesus as The Christ illustrates the appropriateness of Simon’s nickname “Peter” (Petros = rock). This is not the first time Simon has been called Peter (cf. John 1:42), but it is certainly the most famous. Jesus’ declaration, “You are Peter”, parallels Peter’s confession, “You are the Christ”, as if to say, “Since you can tell me who I am, I will tell you who you are.” The expression “this rock” almost certainly refers to Peter, following immediately after his name, just as the words following “the Christ” in v. 16 applied to Jesus. The play on words in the Greek between Peter’s name (Petros) and the word “rock” (petra) makes sense only if Peter is the rock and if Jesus is about to explain the significance of this identification.” (The New American Commentary: Matthew, vol. 22 (Nashville: Broadman, 1992), pages 251-252, JPK pages 31-32)

Cut
Not to my surprise, if you compare all of them together, a few use the Aramaic argument, which is baseless and not useful since we have no Aramaic NT manuscripts… And some use arguments that are contrary to each other. So what can we say in light of the whole picture? Plenty of speculation to avoid what is written compared to the rest of Scripture which unlocks what it means and equally important, what it does not mean.

Look if your religion teaches that Peter is the rock upon which Jesus builds His church, then that is factual for you because perception is ones reality. I have no problem with what you choose to believe or don’t believe; that is prerogative and God deals justly with all.
I only expect to be treated with the same respect, which to this point has been somewhat disappointing, but I had no idea of what to expect when I got here, but i am getting the idea, which means I probably will go elsewhere to find more information. I assumed that speaking to people who are devout would give more insights than just reading stuff online, but I may have been mistaken on that presumption.

There are many more threads and Catholic people I have not met by looking at the “who is online”; so I will continue and hope for some improvement. It is nothing personal; I’m just expected a more friendly atmosphere. I have three neighbors who are Catholic and they are very friendly, but they do not speak much about their religion.

May God bless you according to His divine purpose for you.
 
The Apostle John discipled a man known today as Polycarp of Smyrna. Polycarp, in turn, discipled a man known as Irenaeus of Lyons. Around 180 AD, Irenaeus recorded the names of the leaders of the early church beginning with Peter down to his own day; thus, we have the following from a second-century (pre-Constantinian) Christian with impeccable credentials:

"3The blessed Apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the Church [of Rome], they handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus. Paul makes mention of this Linus in the Epistle to Timothy. To him succeeded Anencletus; and after him, in the third place from the Apostles, Clement was chosen from the episcopate. He had seen the blessed Apostles and was acquainted with them. It might be said that He still heard the echoes of the preaching of the Apostles, and had their traditions before his eyes. And not only he, for there were many still remaining who had been instructed by the Apostles. In the time of Clement, no small dissension having arisen among the brethren in Corinth, the Church in Rome sent a very strong letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace and renewing their faith. To this Clement, Evaristus succeeded; and Alexander succeeded Evaristus. Then, sixth after the Apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telesphorus, who also was gloriously martyred. Then Hyginus; after him, Pius; and after him, Anicetus. Soter succeeded Anicetus, and now, in the twelfth place after the Apostles, the lot of the episcopate has fallen to Eleutherus. In this order, and by the teaching of the Apostles handed down in the Church, the preaching of the truth has come down to us." (Against Heresies 3.3.3, [A.D. 180])
Was the term “Pope” used or “Bishop of Rome”? There would appear to be a major difference on the intent of the writer at the time of the writing.
 
The Bible was put together by Spirit filled holy men, successors of the Holy Apostles who were commissioned by our Lord Jesus to hand on revelation. The magisterium is the teaching authority of His Holy Church, the Body of Christ, and the magisterium is made up of the Holy Spirit Guided Vicar of Christ on this earth , the present Pope Benedict.and all his Spirit guided Bishops. Thank you for the Question, I love it. I do love passing on the Truth of our Lords revelation. He is our Bridegroom and Catholic Answers is part of his Bride the Catholic Church.👍., Oh God be gracious and bless us and let your light shine upon us, Amen. Carlan
So does the church believe the Bible is the Word of God? The early church writers called the vicar of Christ, the Holy Spirit. At what point did a person(s) take that title and duties associated away from the Holy Spirit? Is there a first reference to the Vicar of Christ title being used by the Pope and if so, what was the date? If you have a reference link; that would be great…thanks for your charitable replies.
 
Originally Posted by** Masters Servant**
Not to my surprise, if you compare all of them together, a few use the Aramaic argument, which is baseless and not useful since we have no Aramaic NT manuscripts
There are some NT manuscripts available for scholars in the Vatican Archives. And, if I’m not mistaken also in a British museum.

The Egyptian Copts also have the complete NT in Aramaic. They also use Aramaic in their Liturgy.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
It is simply too obvious that the early church was ruled by committee and no one person had all the power to decide for example if Gentile Christians had to be circumcized to worship with the Jewish Christians.
Your posts had many questions and points. Possibly too many to discuss in one thread, much less one post. I’m going to address your last statement, as well as a couple other points, and will return to other points tomorrow, even though some have already been discussed. I’m sure others will respond to parts as well.

The Church was ruled by, as you say, a ‘committee’, just as it is today. But with every ‘committee’, there is a chairperson, or leader. A more applicable term might be council. As for the Gentiles, you have brought up a point where Peter asserted himself. No one argued against this point with him…

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter, rising up, said to them: Men, brethren, you know that in former days God made choice among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Did Peter take counsel from his bishops? YES, as any good Pope, or leader, would.

Another point you bring up is St. Ignatius and ‘how you’re sure’ that he spelled Catholic with a ‘little k’.

I’m the person that posted the following:

Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.

I copied and pasted it from a Protestant website, studylight.org/his/ad/ecf/. If you read the entire writing, you’ll see more Catholic doctrine. It can be found in The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans.

If he used a ‘little k’, it was translated with a capital C, according to the Protestant website I used to copied it from.

Lastly, as a courtesy and in the interest of an honest discussion, try to limit your posts to one or two thoughts or points at a time. Presenting a ‘laundry list’ of objections appears suspect, as if enough objections are presented, no coherent refutation can come about. :rolleyes:
 
So does the church believe the Bible is the Word of God? The early church writers called the vicar of Christ, the Holy Spirit. At what point did a person(s) take that title and duties associated away from the Holy Spirit? Is there a first reference to the Vicar of Christ title being used by the Pope and if so, what was the date? If you have a reference link; that would be great…thanks for your charitable replies.
You do realize that Pope is just a rendition of Father - right? … Abba, Father, Daddy, Papa, Pope …

Some Orthodox Patriarchs still use “Pope” … in the western church the use of Pope has become a way to identify the Successor to Peter … like a Prime Minister who holds an office not solely tied to the geography of Rome [he is tat too, the Bishop of Rome] but references his role as a Servant to and in light of the Universal Church … [the Servant to the Servants of God]

read Isaiah 22 the Prime Minister was called and known to the people as ‘Abba’ a father to them …
 
Acts 9:31

(IGNT+) αιG3588 THE μενG3303 INDEED ουνG3767 THEN εκκλησιαιG1577 ASSEMBLIES καθG2596 THROUGHOUT οληςG3650 WHOLE τηςG3588 THE ιουδαιαςG2449 OF JUDEA καιG2532 AND γαλιλαιαςG1056 GALILEE καιG2532 AND σαμαρειαςG4540 SAMARIA ειχονG2192 [G5707] HAD ειρηνηνG1515 PEACE, οικοδομουμεναιG3618 [G5746] BEING BUILT UP καιG2532 AND πορευομεναιG4198 [G5740] GOING ON τωG3588 IN THE φοβωG5401 FEAR τουG3588 OF THE κυριουG2962 LORD, καιG2532 AND τηG3588 IN THE παρακλησειG3874 COMFORT τουG3588 OF THE αγιουG40 HOLY πνευματοςG4151 SPIRIT επληθυνοντοG4129 [G5712] WERE INCREASED.

G2596
κατά
kata
kat-ah’
A primary particle; (preposition) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive, dative or accusative] with which it is joined): - about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to, touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [dai-] ly, down, every, (+ far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from . . . to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), . . . by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+ your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.

G3650
ὅλος
holos
hol’-os
A primary word; “whole” or “all”, that is, complete (in extent, amount, time or degree), especially (neuter) as noun or adverb: - all, altogether, every whit, + throughout, whole.

kata holos
kat-ah’ hol’-os
Catholic is an adjective derived from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning “universal”.
 
In Acts1:15…ff, 2Tim 2:1-2, this is what the CC called Apostollic sucession. From Apostle Peter to our present Pope Benedict XVI the CC have documents supporting the claim.

There is a book ‘‘Upon this Rock’’ by Stepehen Ray and Some Articles in ‘‘On this Rock’’ Magazine regarding the Papacy and Peter. You can find them on this site. Those references are well written and easier to understand.
Acts 1:15 is the one time an Apostle, not an apostles like Timothy and Mark, was ever replaced and it was by God. So how does this equate to Apostolic succession beyond Mathias? I don’t follow.

2 Timothy 2 is ever further away than Acts 1; their is no succession in the terms or context you have identified. This is Paul telling Timothy to remember to teach others the same as he has been taught concerning the gospel. Very confusing to me how this is succession. Does your church use these passages to show legitimacy from Scripture leading to the Pope? As opposed to your own understanding apart from what the Catholic church teaches.
 
Here’s one problem. Christ also told the Apostles the greatest was the least among them. So even if Peter was the rock and not what Peter said about Christ being the Son of God, the papacy has evolved to a far greater authority than Christ would have intended.

Is there even a mention of apostolic succession in Scripture? Let alone the serious sins committed by the hierarchy. Human yes. But as an example, to the degree pedophilia was covered up, difficult to see how they could still represent Christ’s Church.
Lib Christian,

So you have it all figured out. Protestants have molestations in their ranks much more frequent than the sinful, sick Catholic diseased Priests. There is a tie for the highest divorce rate in this country. the Police and Protestant ministers.

If we have a bad president, does he destroy the position of the presidency. Yes but only temporarily. If the next president is good then things are back to normal.

The number of mentally deranged priests are so low like .01% that if I change the example a bit. we’ll see if you feel the same. If three black kids gang raped and murdered a young innocent white girl and the next night you, if you are white, were walking down the street in the dark and saw a few black kids walking behind you at a rather fast speed would you be afraid of what they might do to you and try to run. You bet you would. Well then you would be labeled a racist. Yes there are bad priests, yes there are bad kids, bad presidents, etc., but that doesn’t make them all bad and you know it,

The fact that the Catholic Church still stands is proof that Jesus was correct when he said the gates of hell will never destroy my Church. Christ’s Church still stands, while so many other one’s just fade away. Be happy that Jesus wasn’t wrong and join the Church that He, Himself, began on this earth, which is called the Body of Christ of which we are all part of.

May God guide you on your journey.

jpaul1953

PS: The humblest man on earth is the Pope since he has an impossible job and ultimate responsibility. Just because of all the traditional glamour, don’t think that his life is easy. He has the responsibilty of trying to keep all Christians on the road to salvation along with all non-Christians. That why Catholics are asked to pray for him daily. He is just a man with almost a supernatural job to do. I sure wouldn’t want to be him. May God have mercy on his soul.
 
You do realize that Pope is just a rendition of Father - right? … Abba, Father, Daddy, Papa, Pope …

Some Orthodox Patriarchs still use “Pope” … in the western church the use of Pope has become a way to identify the Successor to Peter … like a Prime Minister who holds an office not solely tied to the geography of Rome [he is tat too, the Bishop of Rome] but references his role as a Servant to and in light of the Universal Church … [the Servant to the Servants of God]

read Isaiah 22 the Prime Minister was called and known to the people as ‘Abba’ a father to them …
Thanks for the information.
 
Acts 1:15 is the one time an Apostle, not an apostles like Timothy and Mark, was ever replaced and it was by God. So how does this equate to Apostolic succession beyond Mathias? I don’t follow.

2 Timothy 2 is ever further away than Acts 1; their is no succession in the terms or context you have identified. This is Paul telling Timothy to remember to teach others the same as he has been taught concerning the gospel. Very confusing to me how this is succession. Does your church use these passages to show legitimacy from Scripture leading to the Pope? As opposed to your own understanding apart from what the Catholic church teaches.
Who do you think the Apostles passed on what they learned from Jesus? Who continued the mission of spreading the Good News, Baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Who continued making disciples of all nations.??? Its common belief the the Church continued to fluorish even under persecution.After Acts 28 the church lived continuosly until now because the Church is built upon the Rock. Paul was called by Jesus and went to meet the Apostles. What he learned he passed on. In your own personal context its not qualified. Its typical.

Maybe unlearned people think that when the Apostles died the Bible was written and got distributed?:confused: How about your church? What does it teach you? I don’t like to misrepresent your belief whan someone asked me about certain belief of other churches?
 
…they were sinful and Peter even was rebuke by Paul for what he was teaching, which amounts to sin…
Paul’s rebuke of Peter does nothing to undermine Peter’s authority as head of the Church. Infallibility is not the same as impeccability. Let me know if you have questions about that.

In the meantime, let’s look at Paul’s rebuke more closely from the word of God, shall we?

On Peter, Paul and Hypocrisy

In their effort to deny the primacy of Peter and the doctrine of papal infallibility, many non-Catholics point to Paul’s rebuke of Peter over the issue of eating with Gentiles as recorded in the Paul’s Letter to the Galatians.

Galatians 2:11-14
11When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray. 14When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

In this passage, we see that Paul opposed Peter for not practicing what he preached. Although Peter may have been wrong to draw back from eating with the Gentile believers, we must note that is apparently James, and not Peter, who was the leader of the “circumcision group” in Jerusalem. Thus, those who assert that it was James, and not Peter, who was the real leader of the Church must answer for this error. However, Peter’s actions do not constitute formal teaching, and the doctrine of infallibility does not apply to Peter’s private opinions or behavior. Therefore, this passage does nothing to disprove either Peter’s primacy or the doctrine of papal infallibility. Peter, like his successors, was not above reproach nor impeccable.

However, it must also be noted that Paul was not above taking prudent measures out of fear of those who held to the tradition of circumcision, either. One such measure is found in the following passage:

Acts 16:1-3
1
He came to Derbe and then to Lystra, where a disciple named Timothy lived, whose mother was a Jewess and a believer, but whose father was a Greek. 2The brothers at Lystra and Iconium spoke well of him. 3Paul wanted to take him along on the journey, so he circumcised him because of the Jews who lived in that area, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.

Paul wrote that “circumcision means nothing” (1 Corinthians 7:19, Galatians 6:15). Moreover, in the same letter in which Paul accused Peter of hypocrisy and boasted of having opposed Peter to his face, he writes the following:

Galatians 5:2-3
2
Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

Imagine how Timothy must have felt when he first heard these words. He had let himself be circumcised by the very man who condemned the practice. Was Christ of no value to Timothy at all as a result of being circumcised?

This was not the only time that Paul had acted out of fear of the Jews. Later in the book of Acts, we find the following:

Acts 21:17-26
17
When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers received us warmly. 18The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. 19Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.” 26The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them.

Clearly, the brothers in Jerusalem were concerned that some harm might come to Paul from those who knew that Paul taught against circumcision. Paul agreed to purify himself according to Jewish customs and to pay the expenses of those who were purified along with him rather than openly admit that circumcision was of no value. Was this a wise course of action? Assuredly as subsequent events indicate.

However, it cannot be denied that Paul was preaching one thing (at least in private to Gentile Christians) while practicing another—the very thing he accused Peter of doing.
 
May I ask a question of you? Do you and your church believe the Bible is the Word of God? If so, then how can the Word of God and a “magisterium” be on equal footing without having a divine and or infallible human nature, like the Bible? I don’t understand that.
Yes, the Bible is Word of God - the written portion, anyway. Here is an explanation from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

II. THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TRADITION AND SACRED SCRIPTURE
One common source. . .
80
"Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal."40 Each of them makes present and fruitful in the Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with his own “always, to the close of the age”.41
. . . two distinct modes of transmission
[81](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/81.htm’)😉
"Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit."42
"And [Holy] *Tradition *transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching."43
82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."44
Apostolic Tradition and ecclesial traditions
[83](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/83.htm’)😉
The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and hands on what they received from Jesus’ teaching and example and what they learned from the Holy Spirit. The first generation of Christians did not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself demonstrates the process of living Tradition.
Tradition is to be distinguished from the various theological, disciplinary, liturgical or devotional traditions, born in the local churches over time. These are the particular forms, adapted to different places and times, in which the great Tradition is expressed. In the light of Tradition, these traditions can be retained, modified or even abandoned under the guidance of the Church’s Magisterium.

III. THE INTERPRETATION OF THE HERITAGE OF FAITH
The heritage of faith entrusted to the whole of the Church
[84](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/84.htm’)😉
The apostles entrusted the “Sacred deposit” of the faith (the depositum fidei),45 contained in Sacred Scripture and Tradition, to the whole of the Church. "By adhering to [this heritage] the entire holy people, united to its pastors, remains always faithful to the teaching of the apostles, to the brotherhood, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. So, in maintaining, practicing and professing the faith that has been handed on, there should be a remarkable harmony between the bishops and the faithful."46
The Magisterium of the Church
[85](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/85.htm’)😉
"The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.
[86](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/86.htm’)😉 "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."48 [87](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/87.htm’)😉 Mindful of Christ’s words to his apostles: “He who hears you, hears me”,49 the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
 
PS: The humblest man on earth is the Pope since he has an impossible job and ultimate responsibility. Just because of all the traditional glamour, don’t think that his life is easy. He has the responsibilty of trying to keep all Christians on the road to salvation along with all non-Christians. That why Catholics are asked to pray for him daily. He is just a man with almost a supernatural job to do. I sure wouldn’t want to be him. May God have mercy on his soul.
Another of his official titles:
Servant of the Servants of God
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top