Who/what are the waldensians

[Signet]

I don’t know who these Waldensians are but I want to share something with you that helped me when I was attacked for being a Catholic.

Blessed Theresa of Calcutta would point out those people trying to shut down her hospitals and/or stop her ministry like this: “Here comes Jesus Christ, cleverly disguised”. She did it, I think, to remind herself that we - as Catholics - always know how we are to behave no matter HOW they behave.

I hope this helps (it sure helps me - as I am a ‘bat to the TV’ kinda girl myself).

 

[random_element]

Glenamyaglen you**, **and the rest of the SDA folks have a hard time reading the bible except throught the lense of the 18th century dispensational thought. 1) It follows Sola Scriptura which originated as a religious doctrine by Luther in the reformation. 2) Dispensational thought is all characterized by volumes of prophecies that have to be revised as they get closer to the next “supposed coming of the Lord” (SDA developed in part because the phony prophecies by the millerites fell through) well Ellen took over with making prophecies -read this: Mrs White said in May of 1856 that some of those listening to her will live
to see the return of Jesus…
Some of those that were attending a meeting with her would become food
for worms, and some would live to become subjects of the seven last
plagues, and some others would “remain upon the earth to be translated
at the coming of Jesus.”
Testimonies for the Church, vol 1, pg 131-132.

What doe the Bible say about false prophets and false Prophecies? “Let not your prophets that are in the midst of you,
and your diviners deceive you…
for they prophesy falsely to you in My name, and I have NOT sent them,
said the Lord.”
Jeremiah 29:8-9

If I followed someone whose first prophecy fell through, I would not walk, I would run away from that person as fast as you can.

Christ founded one Church. It is the only church that has existed from it’s establishment by Christ and still exists today. It is also the Same Church who wrote (inspired by the Holy Spirit) all the books of the new Testament, Sorted out which books didn’t belong, and has the Authority to interpret them.

let me throw a bone to you Glenamyaglen: Since SDA development came from the Baptist movement, you probably believe in total immersion for Baptism. In ACTS 2:41. “They therefore that received his word were baptized and there were added in that day about three thousand souls.”
This Took Place in Jerusalem - Can anyone tell me how far the Closest river is to Jerusalem? That right it’s the Jordan River. Now anyone want to tell me how far away it is from the city??? So peter and the gang took 3000 people and walked approximately 15 miles to the river the same day - Gee you’d think the Bible would have prbably talked about this great march to the river. The logistics don’t make sense neither does following a false prophet.

I guess because David Koresh was a SDA before he got “inspired” to be a prophet like E. G. White he was part of the true Church as well?

 

[MaggieOH]

SouthCoast:

The “Trail of Blood” isn’t a trail at all. It’s a random assortment of heretics with different beliefs… the only thing linking them being their opposition to the Catholic Church. I was a Baptist until 3 months ago. I enter the Catholic Church this March. Anyone who truly studies history has to come to the same conclusion that I did.

-Michael

Michael,

let me congratulate you on your move towards conversion.

What you say is absolutely correct about the “Trail of Blood”. It is a poorly researched document that seeks to give the Baptist Church a false history of Apostolic Succession. It uses all of the heretics including the Paulicians and the Albigenses and other Cathars. Why any self-respecting Christian would want to be linked to these dualists is a mystery to me.

For clarification, the Waldenses were not dualists like the Albigenses. They did have some heretical teachings that were not approved by Rome. They had produced a French vernacular version of the New Testament.

MaggieOH

 

[MaggieOH]

Glenamyaglen:

Hello Katholikos,

I figured you would take the old denial route, and accuse the True Church of being heretics, thats what the Church fathers had always done. But the Bible says that “the faith was once for all delivered to the saints.” Jude 3 so that being the case there really was no need for any new writings since the faith was once and for all delivered to the saints, of course the Bible also talks about an individual which really represents a system that persecutes the True saints, speaking great arrogant words like the Word of God doesn’t matter because the “so called” Church says so, my friend you got it backwards. This “so called” Church also tries to change times and law, like the Sabbath and the Holy Days changed to Sunday and the pagan holidays such as christmas and the like, Daniel 7:25. The Waldensians were in fact part of the True Church of God!

But trying to tell you something is like talking to someone who thinks they know everything…oh well.

GED

The Waldenses were not Sabbatarians.

The Seventh Day Adventists did not appear as a church until the mid-nineteenth century. It evolved after Miller failed in his prophecy and a young woman by the name of Ellen Harmon claimed to have visions (which were more than likely a result of epilieptic fits - not the grand or petit mal variety but the type that comes from receiving a serious head injury).

It was Ellen White who started the hysteria that people were being persecuted for Sabbath worship. Unfortunately, instead of getting a grip of reality the SDA leadership have decided to revive this same kind of hysterical nonsense. They think that it will keep their members from discovering the truth about their church.

The Waldenses were declared heretics because of improper teachings and that is why they were sought out during the Inquisition. During that period they also behaved like iconoclasts.

MaggieOH

 

[Ozzie]

Katholikos:

The Apostles changed the Jewish Sabbath – which begins at sundown on Friday night and ends when the stars come out on Saturday night – to the Lord’s Day, Sunday, the day of the Resurrection. After the Ascension of Jesus, the Apostles met for the ‘breaking of the bread’ (as the Mass was called then) on the first day of the week (Sunday). So please take your complaint about that up with The Twelve.

I’m no SDA but please show me in Scripture where the Apostles changed the seventh-day Sabbath to Sunday. Now Acts 20:7 states that they were gathered together on the first day of the week and they broke bread, but that says nothing about changing the Sabbath Day, a day of rest according to the Law of Moses. It also doesn’t infer that they only broke bread on the first day of the week.

 

[Maccabees]

Ozzie:

I’m no SDA but please show me in Scripture where the Apostles changed the seventh-day Sabbath to Sunday. Now Acts 20:7 states that they were gathered together on the first day of the week and they broke bread, but that says nothing about changing the Sabbath Day, a day of rest according to the Law of Moses. It also doesn’t infer that they only broke bread on the first day of the week.

The apostle’s choose to celebrate the Lord’s day as their day of worship for Jesus. It is believed the early christians kept the Sabbath and the Lord’s day both. However Christians ultimately got kicked out of the temple and of course it was later destroyed and several controversies with the Judaizers gradually faded out Jewish law as being applicable for christians. All of this is hard to understand using the sola sciptura mindset but the early christian church was use to teaching orally and what they said went. IF they said the sabbath and other observances of the law were no longer necessary than that’s the way it was.
No aptolic churches the Nestorians, the Orientals, the Eastern Orthodox, Ethopians, Armenians, and of course catholic ever had a controversy with the sabbath heck no protestnat hd a problem with this till the 19th century. This is another misapplication of sola scriptura in the hands of an indiviudal with no connection to first century events.

 

[Ozzie]

Maccabees:

The apostle’s choose to celebrate the Lord’s day as their day of worship for Jesus. It is believed the early christians kept the Sabbath and the Lord’s day both. However Christians ultimately got kicked out of the temple and of course it was later destroyed and several controversies with the Judaizers gradually faded out Jewish law as being applicable for christians. All of this is hard to understand using the sola sciptura mindset but the early christian church was use to teaching orally and what they said went. IF they said the sabbath and other observances of the law were no longer necessary than that’s the way it was.

So then by what you say the Sabbath Day was not “changed” by the Apostles, right? The Seventh-day Sabbath, according to the Law, was not a “day of worship,” it was a *“day of rest.” *Can you show me in N.T. Scriptures where the Apostles actually set up (taught) a *“day of worship?” *

The Law did not gradually “fade out.” Christ Himself, the cross, was the end of the Law for righteousness (Rom. 10:4). According to the Apostle Paul, believers are not under Law but under grace (Rom. 6:14; Gal. 3:21-29). Hence, we are not required to keep the “Sabbath Day” according to the Law. Also, can you show me where any of the Apostles taught a “Sunday obligation?”

 

[Ozzie]

Waldenses, Southern France and Northern Italy. Similar to Albigenses, but not identical. Waldo, a rich merchant of Lyons, South France (1176), gave his property to the poor and went about preaching; opposed clerical usurpation and profligacy; denied the exclusive right of the clergy to teach the Gospel; rejected masses, prayers for the dead and purgatory; taught the Bible as the sole rule of belief and life; their preaching kindled a great desire among the people to read the Bible. They were gradually repressed by the Inquisition except in the Alpine Valleys southwest of Turin where they still are found, the only medieval sect still surviving, a story of heroic endurance of persecutions. Now the leading Protestant body in Italy (at the time of this writing).

Albingenses or Carthari. In Southern France, Northern Spain and Northern Italy. Preached against the immoralities of the priesthood, pilgrimages, worship of saints and images; completely rejected the clergy and its claims; criticized church conditions; opposed the claims of the Chruch of Rome; made great zeal of moral purity. By 1167 they embraced possibly a majority of the population of South France; by 1200 very numerous in North Italy. In 1208 a crusade was ordered by Pope Innocent III; a bloody war of extermination followed; scarcely paralleled in history; town after town was put to the sword and the inhabitants murdered without distinction of age or sex; in 1229 the Inquisition was estabished and within a hundred years the Albingenses were utterly rooted out.