Who will enter heaven?

  • Thread starter Thread starter CRATUS
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

CRATUS

Guest
I often wonder. Within a day, there is so many things that happen. Sinful attitudes, impure attitudes, hypocrisy, lack of humility. All those stories about saints seem so far removed. How the saints suffered for Christ, yet they were still not “good enough.” The worst sinner can repent on their last dying breath earn the same salvation who faced ridicule, persecutions, etc. for Christ. Before you suggest the prodigal son story and parable of vineyard. I am very familiar with both. It has not really changed my opinion.
 
I often wonder. Within a day, there is so many things that happen. Sinful attitudes, impure attitudes, hypocrisy, lack of humility. All those stories about saints seem so far removed. How the saints suffered for Christ, yet they were still not “good enough.” The worst sinner can repent on their last dying breath earn the same salvation who faced ridicule, persecutions, etc. for Christ. Before you suggest the prodigal son story and parable of vineyard. I am very familiar with both. It has not really changed my opinion.
Well, I believe the Church teaches that the faithful may experience heaven differently, based on how they lived their lives here on earth. While there aren’t levels of heaven, as some believe, there are “degrees” of perfection. The degree of perfection of the beatific vision granted to the saved is proportioned to one’s merits.

But there will be no jealousy or envy for those at the lowest degrees looking at those at a higher degree.

As for the saints, I didn’t always get why they were so down on their lives and agonizing over their sinfulness, which to me seemed so minimal, especially when I compared my own sins to theirs! But as my faith grew and got deeper, I began to understand that any sin is bad and even minor sins offend God, and we should be saddened at any sin we commit against our good God. The saints never seemed to rest in their drive to rid themselves of all sin. Most of us cannot say that I think, and that is why they are saints…
 
Why do you think that all saints were “down on themselves?” As Jesus said that the most important commandment was to love one another, then love should bring a measure of joy to someone who loves the Lord, self in proper perception, and others. Jesus said, “Love one another as I have loved you.” To examine one’s self in order to do better for the Lord is in itself an act of love and joy. Peace.
 
I often wonder. Within a day, there is so many things that happen. Sinful attitudes, impure attitudes, hypocrisy, lack of humility. All those stories about saints seem so far removed. How the saints suffered for Christ, yet they were still not “good enough.” The worst sinner can repent on their last dying breath earn the same salvation who faced ridicule, persecutions, etc. for Christ. Before you suggest the prodigal son story and parable of vineyard. I am very familiar with both. It has not really changed my opinion.
… When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
 
I often wonder. Within a day, there is so many things that happen. Sinful attitudes, impure attitudes, hypocrisy, lack of humility. All those stories about saints seem so far removed. How the saints suffered for Christ, yet they were still not “good enough.” The worst sinner can repent on their last dying breath earn the same salvation who faced ridicule, persecutions, etc. for Christ. Before you suggest the prodigal son story and parable of vineyard. I am very familiar with both. It has not really changed my opinion.
One important thing to note is that the Saints tried to orient their wills towards God’s far more than the average person. Every now and then, I would say that I feel *almost *what they say they did, and then I end up turning back to where I was before, much to my dismay. It’s hard to do what they’ve accomplished, but certainly not impossible. One part of orienting one’s will with God’s is accepting that that one repentant sinner is just as valuable to God (and the Saints as well) as the holiest of Saints, if not more valuable, since they were so close to allowing themselves to be lost. The reason God rejoices so much over one lost soul returning than one saint never having left is because that lost soul is added to what God and that saint already have.

The worst sinner can repent of their deathbed and attain the same salvation as the most tormented martyr. The way you say this makes it sound as though that’s a bad thing. No saint would agree with that sentiment. Jesus died for all of us. Collectively as humanity, and individually as ourselves. Even if only one soul would have been saved as a result, He would have been crucified for that one person. If it would convince one lost soul to return, He would go through all of it again just for that person. If you think it is unfair that the repentant sinner gets to Heaven same as St. Stephen, you’re thinking of it from an earthly perspective. While it is within our power to reject God because of free will, it is not within our right to do so. God has given us that freedom so that we are able to fully choose to love Him, and unfortunately for many that means we also must be fully able to reject His love. Yet we are God’s creation, and His beloved children, and truthfully it is our *duty *to love Him as He has loved us. When a sinner repents, even if it’s at the last moment of their life, they are doing exactly what they were created to do. Freely enter into a relationship with God. We were not created to be alone, and are going against our nature when we reject God. We were made to be with Him in eternity. Every saint realized that, and oriented their earthly life towards that goal, whether they did so from childhood like St. Dominic Savio or St. Bernadette, a turning point after they were adults like St. Augustine or St. Paul, or their deathbed like countless people who have realized the truth of this life in their final moments, even if we don’t know their names.

God wishes for everyone to enter Heaven. Those who do not are those who chose not to, which sounds like it’s oversimplifying, but it is the truth. One could say that just wanting to enter Heaven isn’t enough, but wanting to enter Heaven should not be based on a desire to avoid Hell. If one desires to be with God, even if they may not fully understand what that means or what it entails, God will provide them the grace to succeed. He is continually offering us opportunities to seek union with Him, and does not hesitate to come to us when we call out. Several sources, don’t know them off the top of my head, mention that God comes to us before we even ask. Every saint and sinner is insufficient to enter Heaven. But do you understand why that is the case? We can do nothing without God, including even exist, but the question at the center of the saints’ lives was essentially, why would we want to try to succeed without God? We are called to depend on Him for everything.

I feel like you might benefit from reading He and I, the writings of St. Therese of Lisieux, and similar books on God’s love, particularly in regards to individual people.
 
So, the ‘Saint’ in this life when confronted by the ‘sinner’s’ constant bad behaviour, had to practise the virtues of forgiveness, self control & patience, & after a lifetime of this chiseling/endurance, they are fashioned into saints. The ‘sinners’ on the other hand, when confronted with the ‘saints’ persistent goodwill, charity & compassion in the face of constant evil-doing, after a lifetime of this, the sinner’s heart softens by the good examples, & hope & faith are begun to be believed in, & the sinner converts!! ie the good thief, the Samaritan woman etc.
No one gets to Heaven alone.
 
… When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
This. Stop wondering OP, and start doing.
Lots of people need your kind words, your helping hand, and your compassion.
Don’t be overly concerned with the sins of others. This is a trend in your threads.
Concern yourself with the work of the Lord.
Study the Gospels and life a life pleasing to the Almighty.
God bless you.
 
I often wonder. Within a day, there is so many things that happen. Sinful attitudes, impure attitudes, hypocrisy, lack of humility. All those stories about saints seem so far removed. How the saints suffered for Christ, yet they were still not “good enough.” The worst sinner can repent on their last dying breath earn the same salvation who faced ridicule, persecutions, etc. for Christ. Before you suggest the prodigal son story and parable of vineyard. I am very familiar with both. It has not really changed my opinion.
If you die in a state of grace you are saved, either straight to Heaven or more likely Purgatory first (then Heaven).
 
You haven’t really expressed an opinion or asked a question, other than your Post Title.

Q. Who will enter heaven? A. Those in a state of grace.
 
I often wonder. Within a day, there is so many things that happen. Sinful attitudes, impure attitudes, hypocrisy, lack of humility. All those stories about saints seem so far removed. How the saints suffered for Christ, yet they were still not “good enough.” The worst sinner can repent on their last dying breath earn the same salvation who faced ridicule, persecutions, etc. for Christ. Before you suggest the prodigal son story and parable of vineyard. I am very familiar with both. It has not really changed my opinion.
In sounds to me that it is a puzzle that late comers are rewarded the same as long timers, and it doesn’t seem sorta fair.

But each will be rewarded accordingly…how much love, and how much good. Some have accrued $1000000 spiritual dollars, and others 10000 spiritual dollars. We are all rewarded accordingly.
No one is getting by with anything. We will see someday how it all works out and the fairness of it all. We won’t be unhappy about the results either. There’s plenty to go around especially since the banker has unlimited supply of funds to give to each and wants to hand it out.

And our spiritual dollars increase by leaps and bounds if we can take someone with us, thru prayer or any other means. And just think of what everyone else in heaven will see in you when it was you who were instrumental in their complete new life for those late comers.

I guess that’s the way the good people before us saw it…others to help…and themselves to eliminate anything that interferes with love.
 
This. Stop wondering OP, and start doing.
Lots of people need your kind words, your helping hand, and your compassion.
Don’t be overly concerned with the sins of others. This is a trend in your threads.
Concern yourself with the work of the Lord.
Study the Gospels and life a life pleasing to the Almighty.
God bless you.
Maybe these words will finally penetrate through my stubborn skull
 
One important thing to note is that the Saints tried to orient their wills towards God’s far more than the average person. Every now and then, I would say that I feel *almost *what they say they did, and then I end up turning back to where I was before, much to my dismay. It’s hard to do what they’ve accomplished, but certainly not impossible. One part of orienting one’s will with God’s is accepting that that one repentant sinner is just as valuable to God (and the Saints as well) as the holiest of Saints, if not more valuable, since they were so close to allowing themselves to be lost. The reason God rejoices so much over one lost soul returning than one saint never having left is because that lost soul is added to what God and that saint already have.

The worst sinner can repent of their deathbed and attain the same salvation as the most tormented martyr. The way you say this makes it sound as though that’s a bad thing. No saint would agree with that sentiment. Jesus died for all of us. Collectively as humanity, and individually as ourselves. Even if only one soul would have been saved as a result, He would have been crucified for that one person. If it would convince one lost soul to return, He would go through all of it again just for that person. If you think it is unfair that the repentant sinner gets to Heaven same as St. Stephen, you’re thinking of it from an earthly perspective. While it is within our power to reject God because of free will, it is not within our right to do so. God has given us that freedom so that we are able to fully choose to love Him, and unfortunately for many that means we also must be fully able to reject His love. Yet we are God’s creation, and His beloved children, and truthfully it is our *duty *to love Him as He has loved us. When a sinner repents, even if it’s at the last moment of their life, they are doing exactly what they were created to do. Freely enter into a relationship with God. We were not created to be alone, and are going against our nature when we reject God. We were made to be with Him in eternity. Every saint realized that, and oriented their earthly life towards that goal, whether they did so from childhood like St. Dominic Savio or St. Bernadette, a turning point after they were adults like St. Augustine or St. Paul, or their deathbed like countless people who have realized the truth of this life in their final moments, even if we don’t know their names.

God wishes for everyone to enter Heaven. Those who do not are those who chose not to, which sounds like it’s oversimplifying, but it is the truth. One could say that just wanting to enter Heaven isn’t enough, but wanting to enter Heaven should not be based on a desire to avoid Hell. If one desires to be with God, even if they may not fully understand what that means or what it entails, God will provide them the grace to succeed. He is continually offering us opportunities to seek union with Him, and does not hesitate to come to us when we call out. Several sources, don’t know them off the top of my head, mention that God comes to us before we even ask. Every saint and sinner is insufficient to enter Heaven. But do you understand why that is the case? We can do nothing without God, including even exist, but the question at the center of the saints’ lives was essentially, why would we want to try to succeed without God? We are called to depend on Him for everything.

I feel like you might benefit from reading He and I, the writings of St. Therese of Lisieux, and similar books on God’s love, particularly in regards to individual people.
It is actually not a bad thing. Now that I think about it. It is wonderful God gives us a second chance no matter how far we are. It is a little sad some people are beaten, tormented, even beheaded for their faith, while some jerk can repent the last five minutes of his life. Who am I to care and judge? No one. This is one of the aspects of God/Christianity I struggle to understand. What can I do? Worry about my own sins and not get too close to people I see as a bad influence. In the end, we are all sinners.
 
So, the ‘Saint’ in this life when confronted by the ‘sinner’s’ constant bad behaviour, had to practise the virtues of forgiveness, self control & patience, & after a lifetime of this chiseling/endurance, they are fashioned into saints. The ‘sinners’ on the other hand, when confronted with the ‘saints’ persistent goodwill, charity & compassion in the face of constant evil-doing, after a lifetime of this, the sinner’s heart softens by the good examples, & hope & faith are begun to be believed in, & the sinner converts!! ie the good thief, the Samaritan woman etc.
No one gets to Heaven alone.
One day I will let this all go. God loves us equally. Whether we repent with your last breath or are flogged for his sake. Who am I to complain? God will do what He wills. Besides, what do I know about anyone’s true life story? Nothing. Is it my business to know? No. Why constantly beat myself up or care about my sins, if God will not love me anymore or less, regardless? I KNOW THESE ARE WRONG FEELINGS. When I talk about “repentant” sinners - I am not talking about people who lived wild lifestyles or went to orgies. I am talking about people who REALLY SCREWED people over in this life - abusive people, murderers. St. Rita forgave her infidel of a husband. Maria Goretti forgave the man who raped and murdered her. She even appeared to him so he could repent. Well lucky for the sinner, who learns by good example. PERHAPS I should focus my energy on better things and on whether or not, God will forgive me. I do not know what my cross is or what it will be. Am I scared? OF COURSE. Would I like to run away and be ignorant and get the easy way to salvation? OF COURSE.
 
Pay no attention to some of things I have written. I feel bad. I do not mean to sound so bitter. Being called to Christ is difficult. I am sorry for all the negativity I have spread. Feel free to ignore my former post
 
… It is a little sad some people are beaten, tormented, even beheaded for their faith, while some jerk can repent the last five minutes of his life. Who am I to care and judge? No one. This is one of the aspects of God/Christianity I struggle to understand…
Their reward in Heaven will be immense! God is He ‘Who will render to every man according to his works.’ (Rom. 2:6) To the martyrs, He says: ‘Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you.’ (Mt. 5:12)

Pax!
 
Their reward in Heaven will be immense! God is He ‘Who will render to every man according to his works.’ (Rom. 2:6) To the martyrs, He says: ‘Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you.’ (Mt. 5:12)

Pax!
Was it on your blog that I read an account of a Saint who experienced visions involving martyrs and other suffering souls talking about how the joy and reward of Heaven is so great, a single instant of that joy renders all of that suffering insignificant by comparison?
 
Was it on your blog that I read an account of a Saint who experienced visions involving martyrs and other suffering souls talking about how the joy and reward of Heaven is so great, a single instant of that joy renders all of that suffering insignificant by comparison?
Possibly. (Thanks for reading!). This might not be what you are referring to, but I will share it anyway:

“On one occasion, when the devil was speaking by the mouth of a person who was possessed, he said:

‘If the whole heavens were a sheet of parchment, if the whole ocean were ink, if every blade of grass were pen, and every man on earth a scribe, it would not suffice to describe the intense, immeasurable delight which the vision of God affords to the blessed.’

And at another time he said that if God would but vouchsafe to grant him the privilege of beholding His divine countenance for a few moments, he would, if it were possible, gladly bear in his own person all the torments of hell until the Day of Judgement. This teaches us that if a man spent his whole life in works of most severe penance, and after his death were permitted only for one instant to gaze on the face of God, he would have received an ample recompense for all his mortifications.”
  • Ven. Rev. Martin von Cochem
Pax!
 
Possibly. (Thanks for reading!). This might not be what you are referring to, but I will share it anyway:

“On one occasion, when the devil was speaking by the mouth of a person who was possessed, he said:

‘If the whole heavens were a sheet of parchment, if the whole ocean were ink, if every blade of grass were pen, and every man on earth a scribe, it would not suffice to describe the intense, immeasurable delight which the vision of God affords to the blessed.’

And at another time he said that if God would but vouchsafe to grant him the privilege of beholding His divine countenance for a few moments, he would, if it were possible, gladly bear in his own person all the torments of hell until the Day of Judgement. This teaches us that if a man spent his whole life in works of most severe penance, and after his death were permitted only for one instant to gaze on the face of God, he would have received an ample recompense for all his mortifications.”
  • Ven. Rev. Martin von Cochem
Pax!
I think it was the second one. I feel like I’ve read a similar statement by St. Faustina or St. Theresa or something before as well. I can’t remember though. Thanks!
 
I think it was the second one. I feel like I’ve read a similar statement by St. Faustina or St. Theresa or something before as well. I can’t remember though. Thanks!
St. Teresa of Avila, I think. I can’t find the quote, though, at this moment.

No worries!

“He who is devout to the Virgin Mother will certainly never be lost.”
– St. Irenaeus
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top