who will go to heaven

  • Thread starter Thread starter Fisher
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
F

Fisher

Guest
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, 20 Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects,

21 Envies, murders,** drunkenness**, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.

9 Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, 10 Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.

3 Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born again? 5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of waterthe physical birth and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit.

9 For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For, with the heart, we believe unto justice; but, with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation.

11 And such some of you were; but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of our God.
 
Fisher said:
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, 20 Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects,

21 Envies, murders,** drunkenness**, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.

9 Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, 10 Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.

3 Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born again? 5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of waterthe physical birth and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit.

9 For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For, with the heart, we believe unto justice; but, with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation.

11 And such some of you were; but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of our God.
Click to expand...
Mt 19: “16 And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? … if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He said to him: Which? And Jesus said: Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness. 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.”

1 John 1:3 “And by this we know that we have known him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He who saith that he knoweth him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But he that keepeth his word, in him in very deed the charity of God is perfected; and by this we know that we are in him.”

Hebrews 10:26: "For if we sin wilfully after having the knowledge of the truth, there is now left no sacrifice for sins. But a certain dreadful expectation of judgment, and the rage of a fire which shall consume the adversaries".
 
Fisher said:
3 Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born again? 5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of waterthe physical birth and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit.

9 For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For, with the heart, we believe unto justice; but, with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation.

11 And such some of you were; but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of our God.
Click to expand...
I notice you added to the words of scripture. However, if being born again of water meant physical birth, you would be talking of reincarnation. The phrase “born again of water and the spirit” is talking of Baptism which is when we are washed with water in obedience to Jesus’ command and at which time we receive the Holy Spirit. In an adult, the baptism follows the belief and confession spoken about in verse 9.
 
It’s so hard to avoid sinning. One can never be complacent about salvation. Lord knows I’m guilty as charged.
 
Fisher said:
3 Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born again? 5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water the physical birth and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit.

9 For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For, with the heart, we believe unto justice; but, with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation.

11 And such some of you were; but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of our God.
Click to expand...
Verse 5 above is a misquote. It is not found in any one of the six different Bibles I own, including the KJV. Someone has added “the physical birth” which is not in that text. Now everyone who fits the first verses about various forms of sin were “washed” according to verse 5 at birth, but would have sinned only after that washing so being washed at birth has nothing to do with Peter’s reply to the multitude on Pentecost who were concerned with what they had to do to be saved. Peter’s reply was to repent and be baptized. Seems like accepting Jesus and asking for forgiveness is only half the story. Now I don’t know a single Catholic who hasn’t been Baptized and therefore “born again”, but I do know some non-Catholics who claim to been born again who have repented, but not been baptized. They evidently don’t take Jesus at his word and have taken only one of the “pills” required for the “cure of the flesh.”

My friend either you need a better translation of the bible or you are just pulling my leg. Are you seriously telling me that you are only half saved? Puzzling indeed. :confused:
 
18 Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things as gold or silver, from your vain conversation of the tradition of your fathers: 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb unspotted and undefiled,

water is corruptible if you leave it sit it will start to stink.

23 **Being born again **not of corruptible seed, but incorruptible, by the word of God who liveth and remaineth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass; and all the glory thereof as the flower of grass. The grass is withered, and the flower thereof is fallen away. 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel hath been preached unto you.

6 For the wisdom of the flesh is death; but the wisdom of the spirit is life and peace. 7 Because the wisdom of the flesh is an enemy to God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be. 8 And they who are in the flesh, cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body indeed is dead, because of sin; but the spirit liveth, because of justification.

14 For whosoever are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For you have not received the spirit of bondage again in fear; but you have received the spirit of adoption of sons, whereby we cry: Abba (Father).

12 But as many as received him, he gave them power to become the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. 13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man,** but of God.**
 
Who will go to heaven? Catholics.

Does this poster do this sort of thing often?
 
People who are in the state of sanctifying grace when they die, whether they will need to spend some time in purgatory of not, will go to heaven. This means that Christians and non Christians have the chance, not the guarantee, of going to heaven when they die.
 
“That we can have at least good hope for the salvation of all those who have never been in the true Church of Christ is hereby condemned as error.”
VEN. POPE PIUS IX

“The Holy, Catholic, Apostolic, Roman Church is the only true Church of Jesus Christ. It is error to believe that men can find the path of eternal salvation and attain eternal salvation in the practice of any religion whatsoever. It is error to believe that Protestantism is nothing other than a different form of the same true Christian religion, in which it is permitted to please God equally as in the Catholic Church.”
VEN POPE PIUS IX

…thanks to roguejim for collecting these.
 
Fisher said:
18 Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things as gold or silver, from your vain conversation of the tradition of your fathers: 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb unspotted and undefiled,
Yes, it is Jesus, the Lamb of God, who shed his blood to redeem us.

water is corruptible if you leave it sit it will start to stink.

23 **Being born again **not of corruptible seed, but incorruptible, by the word of God who liveth and remaineth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass; and all the glory thereof as the flower of grass. The grass is withered, and the flower thereof is fallen away. 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel hath been preached unto you.
Yes, and the word of God tells us to be born of water and the Spirit through baptism.

6 For the wisdom of the flesh is death; but the wisdom of the spirit is life and peace. 7 Because the wisdom of the flesh is an enemy to God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be. 8 And they who are in the flesh, cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body indeed is dead, because of sin; but the spirit liveth, because of justification.

14 For whosoever are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For you have not received the spirit of bondage again in fear; but you have received the spirit of adoption of sons, whereby we cry: Abba (Father).

12 But as many as received him, he gave them power to become the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. 13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man,but of God.
Receiving Him means doing what He commands. It is God’s will that we be born again through Baptism**. **That’s how we become sons of God, how we are born of God. Jesus told the Apostles to teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

The will of man might be just to ‘accept Christ as your personal savior’ but the will of God is to believe and be baptized. We receive the Holy Spirit through baptism. We are regenerated (reborn) through the action of the Holy Spirit in Baptism.
Click to expand...
Please stop just posting scripture. What is your point? What is it that you interpret these passages to mean?

I get my interpretation from the “pillar and foundation of truth”
(1 Tim 3:15).

Re:your original question: Who will go to heaven? Those who God calls and who respond to His call. Not all who say Lord, Lord but those who do the will of the Father. Those who love God and love their neighbor for the love of God.

Let us trust in God’s mercy and pray for the salvation of all.
 
That we can have at least good hope for the salvation of all those who have never been in the true Church of Christ is hereby condemned as error."
VEN. POPE PIUS IX

“The Holy, Catholic, Apostolic, Roman Church is the only true Church of Jesus Christ. It is error to believe that men can find the path of eternal salvation and attain eternal salvation in the practice of any religion whatsoever. It is error to believe that Protestantism is nothing other than a different form of the same true Christian religion, in which it is permitted to please God equally as in the Catholic Church.”
VEN POPE PIUS IX

Howard could you give me a source for these quotes so that I can read them in context please.
 
yinekka said:
That we can have at least good hope for the salvation of all those who have never been in the true Church of Christ is hereby condemned as error."
VEN. POPE PIUS IX

“The Holy, Catholic, Apostolic, Roman Church is the only true Church of Jesus Christ. It is error to believe that men can find the path of eternal salvation and attain eternal salvation in the practice of any religion whatsoever. It is error to believe that Protestantism is nothing other than a different form of the same true Christian religion, in which it is permitted to please God equally as in the Catholic Church.”
VEN POPE PIUS IX

Howard could you give me a source for these quotes so that I can read them in context please.
Click to expand...
It would be helpful to know the date and context. Sounds like a reaction to indifferentism, the idea it doesn’t matter what one believes or what church one belongs to.
 
Pax_et_Caritas said:
Mt 19: “16 And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? … if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He said to him: Which? And Jesus said: Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness. 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.”

1 John 1:3 “And by this we know that we have known him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He who saith that he knoweth him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But he that keepeth his word, in him in very deed the charity of God is perfected; and by this we know that we are in him.”

Hebrews 10:26: **“For if we sin wilfully after having the knowledge of the truth, **there is now left no sacrifice for sins. But a certain dreadful expectation of judgment, and the rage of a fire which shall consume the adversaries”.
Click to expand...
Praise the lord,Jesus never mean about physical birth Jesus mean about spiritual Birth by Baptisam,which we all have to wash away our original sin by bith.:amen:
 
Fisher said:
18 Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things as gold or silver, from your vain conversation of the tradition of your fathers: 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb unspotted and undefiled,
Click to expand...
I’m curious. I believe all the verses that you quoted. Do you beleive the verses that I quoted in post # 2? If not, why not? Why do you only believe part of the new Testament?
 
Fisher said:
18 Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things as gold or silver, from your vain conversation of the tradition of your fathers: 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb unspotted and undefiled,

water is corruptible if you leave it sit it will start to stink.

23 **Being born again **not of corruptible seed, but incorruptible, by the word of God who liveth and remaineth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass; and all the glory thereof as the flower of grass. The grass is withered, and the flower thereof is fallen away. 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel hath been preached unto you.

6 For the wisdom of the flesh is death; but the wisdom of the spirit is life and peace. 7 Because the wisdom of the flesh is an enemy to God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be. 8 And they who are in the flesh, cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body indeed is dead, because of sin; but the spirit liveth, because of justification.

14 For whosoever are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For you have not received the spirit of bondage again in fear; but you have received the spirit of adoption of sons, whereby we cry: Abba (Father).

12 But as many as received him, he gave them power to become the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. 13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man,** but of God.**
Click to expand...
In case you did not realise it these forums are discussion forums. If you only want to copy and paste verses from scripture without having the intention to debate because you are unable to defend your position (whatever its actually supposed to be) then go away and set up your own blogsite. There you can copy and paste to your heart’s content!!
 
That we can have at least good hope for the salvation of all those who have never been in the true Church of Christ is hereby condemned as error."
VEN. POPE PIUS IX

“The Holy, Catholic, Apostolic, Roman Church is the only true Church of Jesus Christ. It is error to believe that men can find the path of eternal salvation and attain eternal salvation in the practice of any religion whatsoever. It is error to believe that Protestantism is nothing other than a different form of the same true Christian religion, in which it is permitted to please God equally as in the Catholic Church.”
VEN POPE PIUS IX

Howard could you give me a source for these quotes so that I can read them in context please.

It would be helpful to know the date and context. Sounds like a reaction to indifferentism, the idea it doesn’t matter what one believes or what church one belongs to.*
The first I recognize from the Syllabus of Errors, the second may be fomr the syllabus, as I said in the original post, roguejim collected these.

And, yes, they do address indifferentism…So? They say what they say, which is what the Popes have always said (even the modern Popes, when pressed - to be saved you have be Catholic, or at least you have to specifically want to be Catholic [Feeney, etc.]).

It sort of amazes me how far people could be off of the teaching of the Church (and I’m not singling anyone out or even thinking of the Traditional Forum here, look around the other forums) on a site called “Catholic Answers”. The Catholic answer to the question is:

Catholics can be saved if they persevere. People who want, specifically, to be Catholic may be able to be saved even if un-Baptized. As to heretics, schismatics, and non-Catholics, we’re not sure at all how it could happen, beause God has not revealed to us how it can happen.

To say anything more is presumption and to go beyond the official teaching of the Church. BTW, the official teaching of the Church never contradicts itself. You have to read the modern documents very closely, and they use a lot of imprecise language, but in the end, every single Papal teaching fits the above statement. I do not think I even need to mention how obfuscatory and unclear the latest Catechism is on the topic - however it’s not so important because I’ve never heard a single credible reason why a Catechism publication would trump Papal teaching.
 
If we’re gonna have a Scripture-quoting battle, allow me to enter:

[Judas] departed; and he went and hanged himself. …] And Jesus [said], “Go and do likewise.”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top